Need some filters

northrop

northrop

grumman
Joined
Sep 27, 2005
Messages
10,814
This is a short notice, since I'll be leaving in a couple of weeks, but I need to pick up some filters.

What I do need is:

- "big stopper" type thing. I'm currently looking at B+W ND 3.0 with single coating.
- circ polar. Again, looking at a B+W offering.
(both in a 77mm variant)

I've bought Singh Ray in the past, but I guess I'm looking for cheaper alternatives right now.

I'm also thinking about picking up the SW-150 holder with one or two grads for my 14-24. Anyone here used one before?

Ideally, I'd like to pick up some grads for my other lenses as well, but investing in essentially three systems (screws, sw-150, and cokin 100mm for everything else) seems a bit of an overkill to get all at once. Not to mention the $$ it would cost me to get it. For what's it worth, this year, I'll be driving through Yellowstone and then straight up to Canadian Rockies. So if you have any recommendations based on experience and what not, let me know :D
 
I have the B+W single coated 3.0 ND filter and it works well. With liveview on I can even kind of compose my shots if I'm just making minor changes. You'll still want to focus and zoom before you screw the filter in though.

For grad filters, I don't even mess with a holder unless I'm using the 10 stop filter and am doing long exposures. I normally use a tripod to hold the camera and just handhold the filter in front of the lens. Otherwise I have the Lee foundation kit. Using that in conjunction with the B+W is kind of a pain though when you have to compose, focus, and then start screwing in filters and holders and then sliding the grad around to get what you want, but other than that it works well with no color casts that I've seen.
 
Thanks for the positive comment on that B+W ND filter. I do have a 10 stop from the already mentioned Singh Ray, but I get some really bad color shifts with it, and the X pattern, which makes me believe it's really just two ND filters slapped together.

As for grads, I get what you're saying and this is probably how I'm going to use them too (without the holder).
 
B+W and/or Schneider Optics are generally the best (they're the same company FYI). But if you really need a "big stopper" you may consider a much more powerful ND filter.

3.0 is only one stop of light. You may want more than that, each stop is in 3.0 increments. So a 9.0 ND filter is three stops of light. If you want to be able to do long exposures during the day (of say the ocean or running water as an example, you may even consider an ND filter that is as many as 10 stops of light.

I have a B+W Kasemann Circular polarizer that works well. I haven't used it in a long while though, I found that I most often prefer to not use it, but everyone has their own desires/looks in their photography. My big issue with it is that it over-saturates everything as well as an increase in contrast. Some people really like that look, I don't. I like to start with the least contrasted image I can get and with low saturation generally, so I can fiddle with that in post. Sure it's handy to get rid of reflections if you don't want them, but I generally move position if I'm trying to remove them, rather than stop shooting, drop my bag, and screw on a filter. And since you know the other reasons why I don't really like polarizers in general, you know why it's not on my lens all the time. So the long and the short, I don't use it much because it's not convenient and I generally don't like the effect it gives on everything.

I also have one Grad filter from B+W as well. My only problem with it is that when it's on the lens, it's really hard to tell which side is the neutral density part, and which is the clear part. I know, you'd think it'd be easy, but when you've got the sun in your eyes or even behind you when you're trying to catch a sunset, it's harder than you think. I wish they would have put markers on it, but because the elements spin (so you can orient it how you want to) they'd have to add some more than likely expensive manufacturing process, as it wouldn't be consistent across each one. Despite these complaints, they're good for what they are.

I personally plan to move to 4"x4" or 4"x6" square/rectangular filters from either Lee or Schneider (if I can affod Schneider... since they are crazy expensive). Easier to control (no more which side is up ND filter nonsense), versatile (one set for ALL my lenses, regardless of thread size), and they generally fit better into where I'm trying to go as a photographer. Which is doing portraits.
 
UnknownSouljer said:
3.0 is only one stop of light. You may want more than that, each stop is in 3.0 increments. So a 9.0 ND filter is three stops of light.
Click to expand...
Yeah... no :p http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_density_filter

3.0 is exactly 10 stops. To be honest, I never really understood the concept of the name. 1 stop is 1 stop. Not some 0.3 :p While I do get the science behind the naming scheme, I just don't like it.

I definitely share your enthusiasm about the polarizing filter. I've used it a total of maybe 10 times before, but after closely reviewing some of my work, I can definitely tell (or at least think I can), where such a filter would actually be of a great benefit. Same with grads.

4x4/4x6 is what I'm looking at right now as well. You're right, it's crazy how expensive some of them can get. It's kinda hard to justify the cost sometimes, especially if this is just a hobby that I do for shits and giggles, and nothing more. :p
 
northrop said:
Yeah... no :p http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_density_filter

3.0 is exactly 10 stops. To be honest, I never really understood the concept of the name. 1 stop is 1 stop. Not some 0.3 :p While I do get the science behind the naming scheme, I just don't like it.

I definitely share your enthusiasm about the polarizing filter. I've used it a total of maybe 10 times before, but after closely reviewing some of my work, I can definitely tell (or at least think I can), where such a filter would actually be of a great benefit. Same with grads.

4x4/4x6 is what I'm looking at right now as well. You're right, it's crazy how expensive some of them can get. It's kinda hard to justify the cost sometimes, especially if this is just a hobby that I do for shits and giggles, and nothing more. :p
Click to expand...

You got me. Sorry yeah, it's 0.3. I got mixed up before and after the decimal point.

As far as the cost part, I wouldn't go in debt to buy these accessories, but for me personally, photography is a much more worthwhile pursuit in comparison with other things I've done in the past. I'd rather shoot or be editing than play games, or fiddle with my guitar, or I dunno, anything else I do. So a big part of it is a matter of perspective and how many expensive hobbies you have. For me, this is it, and I'm okay with not having a home theater system with a plasma TV, or an expensive car.
 
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UnknownSouljer said:
You got me. Sorry yeah, it's 0.3. I got mixed up before and after the decimal point.

As far as the cost part, I wouldn't go in debt to buy these accessories, but for me personally, photography is a much more worthwhile pursuit in comparison with other things I've done in the past. I'd rather shoot or be editing than play games, or fiddle with my guitar, or I dunno, anything else I do. So a big part of it is a matter of perspective and how many expensive hobbies you have. For me, this is it, and I'm okay with not having a home theater system with a plasma TV, or an expensive car.
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you and me both. I don't even own a TV, let alone a theater system. Though I have contemplated getting a cool turntable system :D Probably some nostalgia thing.. I dunno.

So yeah, photography is the only hobby for me as well, so I don't mind dropping a little extra here and there. Still... it sometimes just feels "wrong" carrying a $15-20k backpack around. But damn it... taking photos really is awesome :D
 
I am also looking for a nd filter, how many stops do you recommend for getting that marsh-mellowly look on water falls.

I would I need one for other situations? I don't think I really need it for outdoor portraits, right?

Do you get filters bigger than your lens and a step up ring so they don't vignette? I have a 18-135 with a 67mm should I get a 77mm or a 82mm?

What other filters do you use? I don't seem to see the point of other filters than a nd and CLP in the Digital age.

Do you guy's use Graduated filters? I don't really see a point to getting these if you shoot Raw and edit in Adobe Lightroom.

Thanks!
 
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ComputerGeek said:
I am also looking for a nd filter, how many stops do you recommend for getting that marsh-mellowly look on water falls.

I would I need one for other situations? I don't think I really need it for outdoor portraits, right?

Do you get filters bigger than your lens and a step up ring so they don't vignette? I have a 18-135 with a 67mm should I get a 77mm or a 82mm?

What other filters do you use? I don't seem to see the point of other filters than a nd and CLP in the Digital age.

Do you guy's use Graduated filters? I don't really see a point to getting these if you shoot Raw and edit in Adobe Lightroom.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I have 1, 2, and 3 stop filters which are nice if you're just trying to open up your aperture for daylight shots. I use mine for outdoor portraits quite a bit, especially if I still want to isolate my subject from the background with a wide aperture. If you want long exposures during the middle of the day to give water that smooth or sometimes foggy look, you're best best is to go for a 9 or 10 stop filter.

I went with larger rectangular filters for my grads and 1, 2, and 3 stop filters and a screw in 77mm for my 10 stop. This was only because the Lee Big Stopper is almost impossible to find new. They sell out the instant they come in stock anywhere it seems.

I don't have a CLP, but I do need to get one. I'll probably get a 77mm as well. All of my zooms are Canon f/4 lenses so they all use 77mm filters and if I need faster lenses I prefer primes rather than f/2.8 zooms. When I truly need fast lenses, just one stop won't help me much. That said, I do have step up adapters so I can put my screw in filter on those lenses as well.

As for grad filters, I prefer to use those rather than bracket my exposures and fix later in post. If you need a 3 stop grad, you can replicate it in Lightroom to an extent, but you still might end up blowing out some details in the sky or having to lighten up shadows on land too much. To me it's worth more knowing that I have the shot I want right after I take it instead of having to wait until I'm back at my computer to try to make it work.
 
I've never used Hoya filters before, but you can't go wrong with B+H. If you're planning on shooting really wide and stacking both a ND and a CLP, you might look into getting a thin CLP filter to help prevent vignetting. If you're only using one filter at a time you should be fine with regular depth filters.
 
Ok, my BW ND came in today, and I was able to do a fast comparison with my old Singh Ray 3.0.

Reference shot:

i-BQCJBj2-X2.jpg


B+W 1min exposure:
i-8M8qJDd-X2.jpg


Singh Ray 1 min exposure:
i-qxjpfzV-X2.jpg


B+W 4 min exposure:
i-HHSHjqM-X2.jpg


Singh Ray 4 min exposure:
i-GJz4Nz5-X2.jpg


B+W: $105 on Amazon
Singh Ray: $320
 
So basic impressions is that the B+W is a lot more stops, but it doesn't seem like you were trying to get fully exposed exposures. I'm assuming this was all just for testing purposes?
 
Yeah it was just for testing purposes only, as I did not care about the proper exposure at all. Just wanted to see of the B+W "bleeds" light the same way SR does. I'm happy to report that it does not :D

SR was never really a true 10 stop filter either (after numerous trial and error I concluded it to be an 8 stop instead). When I initially bought the filter (back when I still only used the D80) the bleeding wasn't so bad, for obvious reasons. I did go back and forth with SR customer service on the issued way back when, but they pretty much insisted that there's nothing wrong with the filter, but rather the camera that I'm using. The one thing that I did right was to never buy from SR again after that ;)
 
You can see the X exposure shape in the Singh Ray. There is a darker triangle on the bottom half and the top half, as a product of the variable filter design - and or lighter triangles on the left and right.
 
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When I got the SR filter, the 10 stop was not oficially sold on their site. They supported 5 stop ND filters only, but were happy to do a custom filter for me. I suspect they simply "glued" together two 5-stops and called it a day. Either that, or their manufacturing process isn't all that good to begin with.
 
northrop said:
When I got the SR filter, the 10 stop was not oficially sold on their site. They supported 5 stop ND filters only, but were happy to do a custom filter for me. I suspect they simply "glued" together two 5-stops and called it a day. Either that, or their manufacturing process isn't all that good to begin with.
Click to expand...

From the X pattern, it looks like they just sent you a variable filter that was fixed in position to block 8 stops of light. I've never heard of any non-variable filters having that problem before.
 
In the meantime, the SW-150 kit came in today. That thing looks menacing :D Very well made kit, kudos to Lee no doubt. Haven't had the time to try it out yet (I'm not even sure if I'll have the time to test it out properly before the trip at all). The 2-stop grad seems to be well made too. Here's hoping this will net me some good results out in the field :D
 
patric said:
From the X pattern, it looks like they just sent you a variable filter that was fixed in position to block 8 stops of light. I've never heard of any non-variable filters having that problem before.
Click to expand...

The X pattern is really bad in the photos above even a untrained eye can see it, even though they might not be able to explain why they don't like that photo.

northrop said:
In the meantime, the SW-150 kit came in today. That thing looks menacing :D Very well made kit, kudos to Lee no doubt. Haven't had the time to try it out yet (I'm not even sure if I'll have the time to test it out properly before the trip at all). The 2-stop grad seems to be well made too. Here's hoping this will net me some good results out in the field :D
Click to expand...

Jealousy! lol!
 
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That b+w is the exact same filter I picked up last year. Love it. I have never used Tiffen filters, and therefore I can't comment on their quality, but fwiw, b+w has a great warranty on their filters. Should your CLP ever lock up, you can just send it in, and they will replace it. That alone is pretty awesome. (who knows, maybe Tiffen offers the same service)

As far as quality of the filter itself, top notch. b+w is a brand I can actually recommend without any hesitation.

PS. to whoever gets madFive in this years' HSS. Get him that b+w filter ;)
 
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