Need some education

[Liver]

My goal is to watch movies and play games on my computer with glorious surround sound.

On headphones.

I prefer to have an external processor. Currently I do not have a sound card (on board) and am using an external amp/dac but the surround is kinda meh. Now I think I found a external decoder for 7.1 but only has hdmi inputs. Has headphone out.

Can I route my video via Dvi to my dell 3007 and audio via hdmi to the processor? I have an nvidia graphics card.

 

[spaceman]

Yes but with headphones you usually only want stereo. It sounds better than a fake 7.1.

 

[Liver]

Yes but with headphones you usually only want stereo. It sounds better than a fake 7.1.

I appreciate your opinion. I disagree for my stated purposes.

 

[spaceman]

Your stated purposes have been my quest for the past decade.

I am telling you here and now that you are best served buying the best headphones, external dac and amp that you can afford and running it all in stereo. Trust me, this is not self serving bs I am spouting. I have TRIED to get 7.1 to sound better and it just doesn't. Heck, even the new creative sound cards are limited to 5.1.

For the simplest solution; I would recommend the creative z and an external amp (or not depending on your headphones). If you really want Dolby DTS connect, it has it and does it really well too. For movies, the DTS mode is very good. When I game, I usually have it off as most games have their own engines. Since game audio is encoded on the fly, adding dolby causes issues and plain does not sound correct to my ears.

 

[Liver]

Yea. I know. The Smyth realizer is on my list.

Edit. But I'm waiting for a second version of it. So my budget is kinda generous, but not astronomical. Even in my main room we (wife and I) prefer to watch movies with headphones. We have tons of space that a full on speaker system would be easy, but we prefer headphones.

 

[Goride]

I currently have an Astro Mixamp connected to my computer via an optical cable to provide Dolby Headphone technology to provide a surround effect to headphones.

I like it for competitive fps gaming. It does help to localize footsteps.

It also provides a fun effect for action movies.

However, I agree that just using stereo, rather than Dolby Headphone, provides a higher quality sound.

 

[Liver]

I currently have an Astro Mixamp connected to my computer via an optical cable to provide Dolby Headphone technology to provide a surround effect to headphones.

I like it for competitive fps gaming. It does help to localize footsteps.

It also provides a fun effect for action movies.

However, I agree that just using stereo, rather than Dolby Headphone, provides a higher quality sound.

I don't disagree with you. I do wonder about the relative qualities as well. A $200 DAC (about the cost of the mix amp) will not be in the same SONIC league as a DAC2. Nor should it.

For gaming and movies, for me, it's a great trade off to get surround effect at some audio fidelity.

I'm looking at processors at the moment. Surround processors without the amplifier part.

I don't know how the hdmi connection will do with audio only and then Dvi to monitor. And I don't know if any processing effect is delivered on the headphone out. I'm contacting manufacturers at the moment. Waiting for a response.

Edit. Looking at hdmi audio since its uncompressed and newer. Kinda future proofing, but you know how that goes.

 

[spaceman]

To answer you question:

The hdmi and dvi should work. I had a 670 running both my acer 235hz (dvi) and my Samsung DLP tv (hdmi). I could run both simultaneously with a sound card optical and analogue out into my receiver AND using the hdmi audio and video into the tv from the 670 and had no issues with the sound.

So yes the Smyth Realizer A8 + something decent like Stax (I have had a few pairs of the old Nova and Lambda series and they are LOVELY for this) or maybe the HE-400/500 or the Audeze would give you something very close to 7.1 sound. I usually don't recommend such a combo because of the price tag.

 

[Liver]

To answer you question:

The hdmi and dvi should work. I had a 670 running both my acer 235hz (dvi) and my Samsung DLP tv (hdmi). I could run both simultaneously with a sound card optical and analogue out into my receiver AND using the hdmi audio and video into the tv from the 670 and had no issues with the sound.

So yes the Smyth Realizer A8 + something decent like Stax (I have had a few pairs of the old Nova and Lambda series and they are LOVELY for this) or maybe the HE-400/500 or the Audeze would give you something very close to 7.1 sound. I usually don't recommend such a combo because of the price tag.

The Smyth is tempting, but still going to wait for an update. I know the head tracking will be phenomenal but for this specific application, I really don't need it.

Also, if I get the Smyth, its going in the main room.

Edit: Sometimes I wonder if I should just get a nice soundcard, tweak it a bit and call it a day. Should be good enough for computer movies and gaming. Something like a Xonar series. Is that a cop out, or a great idea?

Second edit: I am looking at the Outlaw and the Emotiva.

 

[spaceman]

Oh certainly wait. It has been out in the basic form for a good while now. That and it was a first generation piece so...

The Creative ZxR is a decent piece of kit. I can't recommend asus at this time. Driver issues and they just aren't as good as the Z series imo. Ease of use and sound quality are both superior compared to asus. There is something going on with how the Z series sounds with games too. Can't figure why but I would swear it sounds better for games than it does for music or movies. It does all of them well, just seems to be an emphasis on game sound quality.

The Outlaw and emotiva are both great choices. Can't go wrong. Just need to get a good amp if you don't already have one.

My thinking is that the outlaw will have a bit more dynamic sound but the emotiva will have more detail. That is if they follow along with their normal house sound. I have not heard anything by either company in about 2 years.

 

[counterpoint]

The headphone amp in the UMC-200 is OK but I don't know if its as good as the one in the XDA-2 (which is really nice, especially with the analog resistor ladder volume control). The UMC-200 also has this digitally controlled analog resistor ladder network volume control. I don't know much about the Outlaw but it doesn't have 7.1 analog in (if that matters to you) or the volume control quality of the UMC-200. Because of that, I'd definitely recommend the Emotiva over the Outlaw.


Here's a post I found that gives some interesting information regarding the UMC-200:

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=preamps&thread=27686&post=493988

The UMC-200 has an ANALOG RESISTOR LADDER NETWORK volume control.

This is important since it means that, in modes that don't require processing, your audio can remain entirely in the analog domain.
That's right, no conversions, no truncation, no rounding, no digital anything.

So, when you feed an ANALOG signal into the UMC-200, and you pick Direct Mode, that analog signal is passed directly to analog buffer stages, then on to the Volume control, which is also ANALOG, and to the output. It is NOT converted to digital along the way. This means, for people using an outboard DAC, or the analog output of a SACD player, the UMC-200 DOES NOT degrade the audio quality on the way through by passing it through any digital processing. All you are adding is the convenience of the nice digitally controlled ANALOG LADDER NETWORK volume control. This is clearly (and audibly) better than ANY digital volume control - even the "good" ones.

If you're using a stereo analog input, you can pick Direct Mode to get this direct analog pass-through, or you can select other modes (like Stereo Mode), which are converted to digital, so you can use all the cool processing the UMC-200 offers. If you're using the 7.1 channel direct analog input, then Direct Mode is the only option you will have.

When you feed a DIGITAL input to the UMC-200, obviously it has to go through the D/A converters (so you can have your analog audio output). If that digital audio happens to be in a surround sound mode, then it also has to be decoded, so it also goes through the decoders. At that point, if you've selected Direct Mode, it will go through bass management and straight to the volume control - and then to the outputs. If you've selected another mode, then the signal will also pass through the EmoQ and EQ processing as well.

[So, if you're connecting that Oppo 105, connect both the HDMI input and the Direct 7.1 Analog audio inputs. Then, when you want to listen to digital surround content, you can use EmoQ, and all the other cool decoding and EQ options in the UMC-200. When you want to listen to SACDs in "purist mode", select the direct input and play them with no processing - and nothing contributed by the UMC-200 except the convenience of that nice digitally controlled analog ladder network volume control. For stereo sources, you can choose to listen through the direct inputs, or you can use the digital inputs and get the full processing power of the UMC-200. If you want even more flexibility, connect the Stereo analog outputs on the 105 to a pair of Stereo Analog inputs on the UMC-200 as well. That gives you yet another option; you can listen to the stereo analog inputs in Direct Mode with no processing (but using the Sabre DACs in the Oppo), or you can use another mode, like Stereo, that gives you EmoQ and all the other cool processing features on the UMC-200 for things that sound better that way. ]

 

[Liver]

Glad I made this thread. Thanks for all the information.

I've written to both outlaw and emotiva with no answer. I'm sure they both sound awesome with speakers but I'm not using speakers. Wondering how they will sound directly off the computer, in surround.

 

[Liver]

Update. I looked at the emotiva and the outlaw pre amps. Everything looks great on paper but if you delve a bit, it's misleading. Remember I only want a good simulated surround for headphones.

Basically these two pre amps would do way less than a mass produced integrated at higher cost. Even though cost was not a huge concern to me, this was kind of ridiculous. Coupled with quality control issues (emotiva in the past) I decided on getting a Yamaha A830.

So far everything with the Yamaha is spectacular. The simulated headphone of silent cinema is quite good. Very few things in life are perfect, the Yamaha is very good. No means is it perfect, better than most though.

Great thing is I picked it up at the local store, and can add speakers whenever I choose. In fact, I will be and utilize the dual room setup. Currently I am just using the headphone out.

It was kind of deflating when the salesman asked me my intended purpose and I said, just the headphones. You are buying a $850 receiver for the headphone jack? Yup.