Need help building high performance rig

B

BeachDude

n00b
Joined
Nov 23, 2009
Messages
32
Hi, it's been a while since I've last built a computer, so I'm a bit rusty on all the latest hardware, which is why I'm posting here.

I'm a network engineer, and I'll be running heavy CPU and memory intensive applications for network simulations. I'm also a Internet power-user, some multimedia editing, running VMs, and would like to play the occasional new game titles.


1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc
-listed above
2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?
-not really any limit here, but I'd like to keep it under 2500 including monitor. will spend what I need to, to get lots of speed
3) Where do you live?
-FL
4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. Please be very specific.
-everything inc. monitor
5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.
-no parts are being reused
6) Will you be overclocking?
-yes, but a bit more conservative than most as I would like to keep it very reliable
7) What size monitor do you have and/or plan to have?
-haven't completely decided on this yet... thinking between 24-30in, but considering my desk is only about 2.5ft deep, it may not be worth getting the larger size. Looking for a very color accurate, quality LCD with a res at least 1920x1200
8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?
-within a month
9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc.
-Definitely RAID. No need for firewire, xfire, sli. Possibly will be going the fast SSD O/S drive, and 2x 1TB in a RAID 1 config for data store. A 2nd NIC would be nice too.
10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license?
-yes, win7 ultimate


Basically, I'm wanting the computer to have a ton of processing power (net simulation software will use every last bit of it), and fast application performance.

What I had in mind so far for hardware is:
-CPU- i7 920 2.66ghz, o/c to 3.4-ish
-Mem- 12GB of triple channel mem (no idea what kind to get here for fast reliable memory)
-Mobo- Something reliable, comes with RAID, some o/c features, and a 2nd NIC
-HDD- SSD for the O/S drive (intel x25 g2, ocz vertex [something about a raid 0 setup with these for very fast performance?], or maybe the new OCZ 256GB drive), and 2x1TB drives in a RAID 1
-Optical- Bluray writer. I think I saw an LG writer for 140ish, probably pick one of these up
-Case- Looking for something stylish, preferably without any LED lighting, but will be able to hold the listed drives above and have room to hold a couple extra HDDs for possible future RAID expansion. Possibly LianLi here.
-VidCard- One of the newer ATI cards, seems like you can get a pretty decent performer for 150-200$ here, but not sure what the best bang for the buck is.
-PSU- No idea here, seems like I'd need 700-800W or so. One thing to keep in mind is the possible upgrades later down the road of extra HDDs and maybe a CPU upgrade
-CPU Heatsink- ??? not sure if I need anything special, but with doing some o/c probably want something to keep the cpu cool
-Misc- Case fans, cables, keyboard/mouse, etc?

That's about all that I can think of right now, let me know what you guys think.

Thanks!
 
Last edited:
If you have Microcenter near you, the 920 is $200.

For best compatibility, get DDR3 rated at 1.5v. DDR3-1600 will get you to 4Ghz on a 920 using the 8x DRAM multiplier; so far, I've only found G.Skill and Mushkin to offer DDR3-1600 at 1.5v. 4Ghz is easy on a D0 stepping, so your 3.4Ghz goal is certainly attainable.

Which RAID level do you plan on running off of the onboard controller? 1 and 0 are typically ok, as far as performance goes, but RAID5 is typically taxing on the CPU and not as good as a dedicated RAID card. A quick note about RAID and consumer drives: apparently WD now prevents you from changing the TLER setting on their caviar drives, so there is the possibility of them dropping out of the RAID array due to the error correction feature.

For storage drives, consider the WD Green drives, if you don't need uber speed. If you do need speed, I'd suggest drives that use 500GB-platters, such as the Samsung F3 and Seagate 7200.12 500GB/1TB/etc, and I think the only WD to use those platters are the 2TB Black drives.

The Asus P6TD Deluxe, eVGA E758, and Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 are all solid choices for your required features.

The Intel X25-M SSDs have fast small random write speeds, but have slower sequential speeds. Conversely, the Indilinx based drives have faster sequential speeds, but slower small random write speeds. When you setup the Indilinx drives in RAID0, the small random write speeds increase enough to more than compensate for the single drive's deficiency. Likewise, when you RAID0 Intel drives, the sequential speeds increase more than enough. Small random write speeds are more important for the avg desktop user than sequential speeds. For single SSD usage, the Intel is a better choice because of this. However, Indilinx based drives' small random write speeds are still faster than mechanical drives, so even in a single drive config, it's still a good choice. More info on my vertex page. If you don't need the sequential speeds, stick with Intel. If you do, go with two or more Indilinx based drives and use RAID0. Keep a backup image on your storage drive, in case the array fails. Also make sure you have a good backup solution for your other data. :p The good deals have been $215 for an X25-M 80GB, $425 for the 160GB, and $140 for an Indilinx based 64GB. The 120GB Indilinx based drives are faster than the smaller versions, btw.

Cases are subjective, so go with what you like. Lian-Li is a great choice, as is Silverstone. I'd suggest the V series from Lian-Li or the Temjin series from Silverstone. Oh, and if you have loads of cash, check out the Corsair Obsidian 800D case. :D

The best bang for buck is ATI, but which one depends on the games you play and at what resolution/settings. For the larger resolutions and/or newer games, you'll definitely want a new HD5800 series card (HD 5850 or HD 5870; or HD 5970 if you're spoiled).

Since you most likely won't need CF/SLI, you probably won't need anything more than a good quality 650W, like the Antec TP New 650W TP-650. However, the sweet spot in pricing is typically a 700-750W for around $100. Stick with Corsair, Antec TP-New (or Earthwatts for entry level PSUs; ie cheap but good quality), Silverstone, Seasonic, and PC P&C. HDDs don't need much power compared to other parts. The most power consuming components will be your vidcard and CPU.

For the HSF, the best bang for buck would be something like the CM Hyper 212+ and the CoGage (Thermalright) True Spirit. Those perform on par with the more expensive recommendations, like the Noctua NH-U12P, CM V8, and the tried and true, Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme (TRUE120). The top dog is the Megahalem, but not worth the money, IMO. Corsair also has a nice all-inclusive water cooling unit, the H50, that is comparable to these.

For a monitor, or two, you'll definitely want to stay away from a TN panel since you want good color reproduction. As for which to get, I'll leave that to the others, as they've done more research than I have on the subject.

Case fans, stick with cheap, Yate Loon 120x25mm low speed from Jab-Tech.com. Any misc internal cables you may need should already come with the mobo, but if not, check out svc.com, performance-pcs.com, and monoprice. KB/Mouse is subjective, so I'd suggest getting something locally, or at least trying them out locally at Best Buy and ordering online, hehe.

EDIT: yikes, didn't realize I typed all that, lol. Sorry for the wall of text. :p Hope it helps.
 
Last edited:
If you want a good 24" display that can display very good color accuracy, then consider the NEC LCD2490WUXI2-BK. It's over $800 but, it's very good and has a standard gamut. It does not have A-TW polarizer though as is found on the older 2490WUX-BK. This helps prevent LCD glow from angle view. The HP LP2475W and the Dell U2410 are IPS panels but have a wider gamut of 102%. Because of this the colors tend to be over saturated. The NEC has a standard gamut of 72%. The HP 2475W and Dell U2410 would be cheaper though at $550-$600. But, if your up for it and want the best 24" then look no further than the NEC 2490WUXi-BK
 
Thanks a ton for the help guys! I'm gonna spend some time tomorrow to pick through some things, and post a final list up later on to make sure I'm not making any stupid mistakes.
 
enginurd, I have a couple questions regarding your Vertex RAID 0 setup...

It seems like that is a pretty powerful combo, but since the drives are in a RAID 0 setup, no TRIM commands can make it through the controller. Do you do anything to keep the drives up to snuff? The read/write performance graphs in the URL you provided are pretty staggering, what does it look like now 6mo later?

Also, I assume you have this setup as the O/S drive, but do you do anything to back it up, if so what (create a backup image, or some other software)?

Thanks again for your detailed list/help.
 
I've actually sold them a couple months ago and picked up a couple X18-M 80GB drives (still waiting on #2 to get here). The Indilinx drives slow down a lot over time with the older firmwares, but the newer firmware, v1.3, works great -- I sold them with v1.42b fw, but never really had much time with them using that fw and official v1.4 weren't out yet. The internal garbage collection works fine. My plan was, and still is (with my G1 intels), to simply run the manual wiper/trim tool every so often once I notice performance degradation. Unfortunately, all my friends with SSDs aren't running them in RAID, so I can't compare my results to a used set. I'll PM someone from the HDTune scores thread and see if they can re-run some tests.

Yup, OS/Apps drive. I currently use Acronis True Image to create backup images of my RAID0 arrays (3 arrays total). My main data resides on non-RAID disks.
 
Here's an updated test run from sgrinavi... I believe he's been running them since April...

original posts:
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1033928895&postcount=183
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1033929098&postcount=185

Updated run:

sgrinavi said:
Here's my original, run under optimum conditions, no background apps, etc

RAID1-2xVertex120s.gif


Here's my new one, I have 3dsmax and autocad architecture running in the background along with 3 or 4 I.E. sessions

twovertex112409.gif
Click to expand...
sgrinavi said:
... I use the crap out of my system too....for CAD and 3d modeling mostly - 3-4 hrs a night on weekdays. more on weekends.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Very interesting information. This is quite the conundrum of either slower hassle-free storage, or storage that's uber-fast but needs attention. Has the person you show been doing anything special to keep them running that fast, or is it just the firmware Garbage Collection that's keeping it that fast?

Seems as though the Intel X25-M G2 80GB is probably a pretty safe way to go, and I'd be able to upgrade it later on possibly to a RAID 0 setup. However, the speeds of the Vertex drives in RAID 0 is really hard to ignore, but just worried about how much maintenance is going to be required to keep the array quick and healthy.

When you mention using the ICH9R chip as the RAID controller, do you mean using software RAID in Windows, or using the on-mobo RAID chip? When using either, does it allow for multiple arrays (i.e. OS drives RAID 0, and a data store drives RAID 1)?
 
How often will you be doing sequential writes with large files? If rarely, then you can skip the Indilinx drives. TRIM is only currently working on the Indilinx drives (single config), IIRC. It's using the ICH9R as the controller, which utilizes the CPU -- its more commonly called fake hardware RAID, since it doesn't have its own processor, but it is a hardware solution. Yes, Intel Matrix RAID allows for multiple arrays, in matrix configs as well (10% of each drive in one array using one level, the rest in another array of another level, etc).
 
Probably not that often on the large sequential writes, so Intel it is then. I guess I was also anticipating Intel to re-release the TRIM support fairly soon for the G2s, so I was sort of counting that in (but wouldn't matter anyways if I go the RAID0 setup).

How are people with the X25-M RAID 0 setup's keeping the disks clean again to keep performance up? Sorry if I'm repeating questions here, just trying to make sure I understand it correctly. Thanks again for the help!
 
If you must, you can run the wiper/manual trim tool from intel's ssd toolbox (down for now). When TRIM support is added to ICH10R, you'll be good to go with G2's.
 
BeachDude said:
...... Has the person you show been doing anything special to keep them running that fast, or is it just the firmware Garbage Collection that's keeping it that fast.........
Click to expand...

I'm not doing anything special. No maintenance at all.
 
Ok, all good to know information. I think I have my final list here, and just have a couple notes that I'd like an opinion on. I've only been looking at newegg for prices/parts, so if there's another reputable site that has some of these parts cheaper, please let me know.

Here's my list so far:

Mobo: EVGA E758-TR $270 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188046

CPU: i7 920 $280 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202

CPU HSF: Cooler Master Hyper 212+ $30 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103065

Case: Siverstone FT01-BW $230 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163121

PSU: Antec TP-New 650w $110 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371021
***If the Antec Earthwatts 750w which is $90 would be a better option, I could do that too.

Mem: G.Skill 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3 1600 1.5v $150 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231225

Monitor: Dell U2410 $600 ($500 onsale) - http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Monitors/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&cs=19&sku=320-8277

OS HDD: Intel X25-M G2 80GB $300 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167023
***note if I can find the 160GB version for $420, I'll go that route, but its not worth newegg's $600 price

Datastore HDD: (x2 in RAID 1) Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 1TB $170 (for both) - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148433

Video card: Sapphire Radeon HD 5770 $180 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102858

Optical: Pioneer Blu-ray 12x burner $220 - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827129051

Keyboard/mouse/wireless/cardreader/etc: $115

=========
Total Price - $2555 (with 80gb intel, 500$ dell monitor)


Anyone see any space and/or power issues with this combination of case, mobo, cpu hsf, video card, and psu?

Any pointers on where to get some of the bigger ticket items for a better price (i.e. the cpu, case, monitor, SSD)???
 
There was a coupon in the hotdeals subforum for $175 off newegg's $600 price... check and see if its still valid... if so, get it quick.

sgrinavi said:
I'm not doing anything special. No maintenance at all.
Click to expand...

Oh, which fw version are you running, btw? thanks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top