My PC vs Xbox 360

S

SAW

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Nov 13, 2005
Messages
1,467
Greetings fellow gamers...

I have a question to those in the know...

I play games on my computer (specs in sig) 100%. Dont own a console of any type at all.

But, because I do, its really a single person experience. I was thinking of getting an Xbox 360 so that my wife and I could play a few games together. She isnt into games that much, but I feel its because I only have a computer and no console, if she were to play some of the games that are out, she might become more interested.

So, I took a look at the 360 while at Wal-Mart the other day and I just about fell over when I saw how much it cost. It was $299 for just the box and ONE controller. $399 if I wanted the LIVE version. Again, I just about fell over with disbelief. And THEN, I saw how much they wanted for their games. Proud aint they, heh.

I began to wonder....."WHY is this thing so costly?" Its basically a video card in a box with a simple drive attached. Right?

So, that being the case....

My question to you guys is this....

What is the graphics card that is inside of the 360? i.e. what would its equivilent graphics card be for a computer? 6800? 7600? 7800? 7900? I cant imagine it being anything under a 6800.

Im just curious how much "power" the 360s' V.card is capable of doing. I guess Im trying to find a justifable reason for its HIGH price tag.

Ive also heard many people say the graphics on the 360 for Oblivion were superior to that of a computers graphics. I personally find this hard to believe. Consoles are played on TV's, that being the case, its impossible for a TV to duplicate the LPI and Quality of graphics I get on my monitor. Even HDTV's graphics are inferior to my monitor, at least the HDTV's I saw couldnt compare.

So, my second question is......

Obvilvion better on MY computer or better on 360? Just curious what your opinions are on this subject..Help me decide if the money spent on a 360 justifies itself. I know anything bought and enjoyed is worth the cost, but then again.....IS IT?

Sorry if this has been beat to death already, I usually NEVER payed any attention to any console threads, so I never kept up with the Computer vs Xbox war.

TIA for your replies. :D
 
The graphics chip in the 360 is a custom chip, the R500, which ATI never released as an actual video card. There's no way to know the exact performance of the 360, but its graphical capabilities indicate that the R500 is at least as powerful as an X1800XL, which = 7800GT more or less. But these are all wild estimates based on the framerates and graphical quality it is able to get in games that are also on PC like COD2 and Oblivion. In truth, there is no real way to know.
 
So for the 360 you get a CPU, GPU, Harddrive, small form factor, ethernet, controller, disc drive, power supply, headset, video cables. You are complaining about that for 400$?

A console is much much more then a "video card in a box".

As stated above the graphics chip is the R500, baby brother to the soon to be released R600. I say this because it has a unified shader architecure like the R600, with 32 unified pipes.

The graphics from the 360 in Oblivion are about to equal to what you would get from a 300$ video card. So for a 300$ console you get graphics equal to a 300$ computer part. The PC version looks better on the highest end machines, but the 360 beats out mid and low end PCs. The biggest reason is because the 360 has HDR + AA, and the only hardware on PC that can do that is the ATi cards, and you would need a pretty high end card to play it decently.

The 360 can also output at up to 1366x768 through the VGA cables, or 720p/1080i through component. HDTV's look just as good as most computer displays, and there are even some gaming HDTV's coming out soon with 8ms response times.


Overall the 360 is a steal, the games are overpriced but the box itself is a good deal.
 
Hmmm, Interesting..

So, just from what youve said, I would assume you agree that the 360 is LESS powerfull than my computer, ehh?

Another reason I asked this question in OP was to obtain ammo to fire back at my wife for teasing me about how much I spent on my computer (which was just a hair under 1300). I keep trying to tell her, try to send pics of our kids to your mom thru the Xbox. The extra money I spent for my computer IS JUSTIFIED, IMO anyways. So, she is teasing me about the money I spent on my computer, but then I complain about the cost of the 360. So, Im just looking for info I dont have about this subject.

Thanks again for any continued replies :D
 
This is border-line flamebait.

If you just want something that you and your wife can play together, why not get a current generation console instead? The PS3 is $500 and $600. The Wii will be in the $200 range. You could go with an Xbox/PS2/Gamecube for a lot less. If you looked at how much money you spent on your computer, you wouldn't say the Xbox 360 was expensive.

You can't really compare the preformance of a modern day PC to a console. As developers become more comfortable with the hardware, they'll find new ways to squeeze more power out of like, like with what we're seeing with a lot of PS2 titles.

You can't ask us if you get an Xbox, and if you enjoy it, would it be worth the money. That's like saying "Well, I enjoyed that blowjob, but WAS IT really worth it?"
 
With Xbox Live Vision, you actually will be able to send pictures, but eh... :)

$1300 for a computer isn't that bad provided you aren't like getting one every year I'd say. But the reason for getting an Xbox 360 isn't whether or not your computer is more powerful than it, but whether or not it has games on it you'd like to play. And, when you look at it the other way, you couldn't get a computer of equal performance to an Xbox 360 for $400 if you tried (you'd probably end up with a crappy computer with a 7300LE or something)...
 
Just to keep it interesting..

The FPS I get playing Oblivion is MAXED at 60 using FRAPS to see the FPS. It goes down to about 35-40 FPS when its raining in the game. I think the lowest Ive seen the FPS go on my computer was about 25 and thats when I was fighting some dude outside WHILE it was raining.

I have EVERY single slider bar MAXED....yes, even the shadows. I have HDR enabled too and of course, water reflections....I LOVE my computer....

I'll still get the 360, eventually, but only so my wife and I can play together, other than that, Im a 100% PC gamer :D
 
SAW said:
Just to keep it interesting..

The FPS I get playing Oblivion is MAXED at 60 using FRAPS to see the FPS. It goes down to about 35-40 FPS when its raining in the game. I think the lowest Ive seen the FPS go on my computer was about 25 and thats when I was fighting some dude outside WHILE it was raining.

I have EVERY single slider bar MAXED....yes, even the shadows. I have HDR enabled too and of course, water reflections....I LOVE my computer....

I'll still get the 360, eventually, but only so my wife and I can play together, other than that, Im a 100% PC gamer :D
Click to expand...

Well you'd have to be with a rig like yours ;)

I'm a recent convert to the 360 realm. I've been an avid pc gamer since 1992 and am just sick and tired of dumping money into my computer just so I can hole up by myself in a room to entertain myself.

Now I play my 360 with my roommates, and others everyday.. much more enjoyable experience. Xbox Live Arcade is a great platform to indroduce gaming to your wife. Games are simple, quick, and fun.
 
Yeah, thats what I was figuring too.

360 = entertainment with friends and family

PC = Personal Experience (guess thats why its called "personal" hehe)

Its just too bad the "friends" dont pitch in for the cost of the 360, hehe....
 
So it would be safe to say that you play games for the graphics and not the gameplay, then? I'm sorry, I just don't see how the hell it matters how powerful the 360 is compared to your PC, as long as you enjoy the games.
 
if you get caught up on the cost of it you will never get one. Consoles price of entry is much much cheaper than a PC from a gaming perspective. Yes the games are anywhere from 1-20 bux more, but that's just how it goes. Plus the life span of consoles is about 5-6 years. So for 400 bux you get something to play games on for 5-6 years. Graphics seem to improve on them about every year as devs find new ways to do stuff with them. Try spending 400 bux on a PC and have it last for 5-6 years, not going to happen. Dont get me wrong there will be no replacing a PC in the future IMO, I play both PC and console games. I have just become tired of upgrading all the time to be able to enjoy games the way they were meant to played on a PC. All in all you are the only one who can make the decision about wether or not it is worth getting, we can only provide you some info to help you make an educated decision. Like I said before, if you keep focusing on the cost you will never get one. Instead focus on what you want to (or may) use it for and use that to justify the cost of admission. Plus you also cant trade in PC games to get credit toward new games. I primarily buy used games and then in turn trade those in for other ones. You wont be dissapointed in the 360 if you get for you and your wife to play. My fiance doesnt like to play PC games but she is more apt to play the games I have for the 360.
 
I can't believe you are complaining about a $400 console, and then you call it a video card in a box? WTF? As posted a few posts above mine, it's much more than that. Hell, starting with the Dreamcast people were running Linux on their consoles!

And you can't compare the power of a console to the power of a PC fairly. You have to keep in mind that console games are made specifically for that console, meaning that they can optimize the shit out of it and squeeze every bit of performance from the console. Now on a PC, this can't be done, because games have to be made to work on a HUGE variety of different hardware configurations and driver versions. So developers can't concentrate on optimizing it for one single piece of hardware, because not everyone owns that hardware! And this is not to mention the fact that Windows and all the background processes running on a PC are sucking up useful memory!

I'm saying all of this, and I'm one of the biggest PC fanboys out there, I don't even own a 360. But that's not going to stop me from stating the facts. It is a good piece of hardware, and I've had much playing with a bunch of friends in the same room.

Since you are a PC gamer, I'd imagine that you spent quite a bit over $1500 for your gaming computer. A gaming computer that will become outdated much quicker than an Xbox 360 will. So it just doesn't make sense to me that you complain about a $300, and $400 console. Have you seen the price of the PS3 man? $600. That's right, SIX big ones. But, to be fair, it does play Blue Ray, and the current Blue Ray players on the market retail for $999.99, so the PS3 seems dirt cheap when you consider that.
 
SAW said:
Just to keep it interesting..

The FPS I get playing Oblivion is MAXED at 60 using FRAPS to see the FPS. It goes down to about 35-40 FPS when its raining in the game. I think the lowest Ive seen the FPS go on my computer was about 25 and thats when I was fighting some dude outside WHILE it was raining.

I have EVERY single slider bar MAXED....yes, even the shadows. I have HDR enabled too and of course, water reflections....I LOVE my computer....

I'll still get the 360, eventually, but only so my wife and I can play together, other than that, Im a 100% PC gamer :D
Click to expand...
Have you even read the other posts in the thread? You just seem to be braging about how fast your computer is.
 
I was convinced that oblivion didn't run smooth on the highest settings on any computer, ever... anywhere! And whats with the 80gb HD?
 
J_I_M_B_O said:
Agreed
Click to expand...

I spent about $1286 on my computer. To answer the other persons question, "why only an 80g HD?" Simply put, I dont need anything larger. My last computer lasted me over 6 years till I built this computer. In that other computer, I had an 80g HD and at the end, I still had probably about 20g of space still on it. I got a really good price for the 80g (about $35) so I just went with that :D

At the beginning of my post, I asked about the comparison of Video cards, PC vs. Xbox, so that right there is the "comparing speed" portion of my post, so yeah, of course I was comparing my computer next to a 360, heh. But more so for the reason of "prooving" a point to my wife, not really comparing the "speed" factor so much.

That point was basically why the Xbox costs as much as it does with an inferior graphics card within it compared to mine (keep in mind Im discussing this factor with the ol lady). I heard bitchin to no end from her when she saw how much I spent on my graphics card and I justified it by saying ITS A BADASS V.Card. She didnt care though, was still ALOT of money.

That being said, I was trying to find that same type of "justification" in the 360, which is why I asked what the 360's V.card is compariable to. That gives me a better idea of WHAT my money is being spent on, cause with the computer, I KNEW what I was buying, the 360, well, Im clueless cause I didnt put it together.

So, I thought Id start learning by finding out what makes the graphics part of the 360 tick. Since its main purpose IS to play games, the graphics part becomes a HUGE issue for some, including me. er go....my post :D

I wasnt trying to start some sort of 360/PC war guys, heh. Im too old for that, as mentioned earlier, I just wanted some info/ammo to shoot back at the ol lady :D

Oh yeah, one other thing...Im not a constant PC upgrader. This computer will/should last me another 5 years, just as long as a 360 :D
Peace
 
Is it me does the OP sound like he should get a WII or what?

wants accessible games for the wifey? check.
Doesnt want to pay an assload? check

My advice to the OP is obviously just wait for the wii.
 
LOL....

No No, you have me wrong bro. Its not that I dont want to spend alot, rather its I want to KNOW what it is my money is being spent ON. Theres a difference :D
 
You can't really compare the performance of a console and a PC on the basis of hardware specs. If the X360 was identical to your computer in terms of hardware, it'd outperform it by a fair margin.

As coders can build the games with a specific piece of hardware in mind, console games are much better optimised. There's also (from what I've gathered) a lot less overhead associated with layers of abstraction between the hardware and the application interface, since a much narrower range of functionality is required.

Run Doom3 side by side on an XBox and on a 733MHz Celeron with 64MB RAM and a GeForce 3, and you'll see how big a difference this all makes ;) .
 
Well, you get a triple core PowerPC 3.2GHz CPU, a Xenos R500 512Mb of RAM, and the rest of the stuff. The Xenos is an interesting chip. It's only got a 500MHz core clock but it does have 48 unified shader ALU's. I'd put it somewhere between an X1800XT and an X1900XT. Still, it uses its ram as vram and system ram, and even with it's low OS overhead, it seems to limits the texture resolutions and level size of some games. I have a hunch that Oblivion's horrid distance textures are a result of this.
 
Obi_Kwiet said:
Well, you get a triple core PowerPC 3.2GHz CPU, a Xenos R500 512Mb of RAM, and the rest of the stuff. The Xenos is an interesting chip. It's only got a 500MHz core clock but it does have 48 unified shader ALU's. I'd put it somewhere between an X1800XT and an X1900XT. Still, it uses its ram as vram and system ram, and even with it's low OS overhead, it seems to limits the texture resolutions and level size of some games. I have a hunch that Oblivion's horrid distance textures are a result of this.
Click to expand...

Oblivions horrid distance textures were on both the 360 and PC (before PC hacks came out to change it). So it is partly a problem with the game. Also dont forget the 10MB of EDRAM on the R500, I still dont think that has been fully utilised yet.
 
I don't think that the 360 is an overall good Multiplayer system yet. There is not that many good games to sit down next to your wife and play with. If you want that sort of experience then wait for the Wii (which will be very friend/MP oriented IMO) or get a current gen system where there is a large selection of games that she might find fun to play with you.
 
stabilep said:
I don't think that the 360 is an overall good Multiplayer system yet. There is not that many good games to sit down next to your wife and play with.
Click to expand...

Well, it mostly depends on who you have as your wife, right? I mean, I bet someone's wife out there would have fun with COD2... somewhere...

And don't forget Fuzion Frenzy 2 is coming out in a couple months, for people who like party-type games.
 
Get your wife a PC. There are more PC games out that she'll probably like than Xbox360 games. Sims 2 springs to mind. There are also some good co-op games for the PC. Not to mention all the other things she can do on a PC that she can't do with a console.
 
You get what you pay for really, the overall console is a decent price, they kill you with the price of games though, absolutely ridiculous...plus most are shit, so it's worth waiting a month or two after release while the game you want drops down in price and order online.
 
clueless about the 360 aye? Want info aye?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360

that should get you started.

also, justifying the purchase of the console based on being able to go the vid card is badass? Did I fly into bizarro world

console = games. If games do not exist that you want to play, do not buy.

If I was you, I'd hit up some gaming websites with your wife, look at some games, maybe head to the store, let her play around, see what she likes, buy that.

Of course if you just want to get the 360, just get the 360. Simple.
 
BladeVenom said:
Get your wife a PC. There are more PC games out that she'll probably like than Xbox360 games. Sims 2 springs to mind. There are also some good co-op games for the PC. Not to mention all the other things she can do on a PC that she can't do with a console.
Click to expand...
Actually, she already has one....However, its my previous computer I had prior to me building this one, so her computer is just good for email and surfin the web basically, that and minor games, such as Ms. PacMan (which she loves). That computer only has a FX5200 inside it, so that tells ya how old it is, heh.

As for deciding to by the 360 based on its V.Card....well, heh, I dont think I actually said that (not going to bother to reread) but if I did, thats not exactly what I was getting at.....It was more about it being a starting place of learning WHAT makes the 360 tick....Me being a PC gamer, it just came natural for me to have my first question be about the V.Card....I agree that graphics do not make a game,,,,,BUT, it doesnt hurt. I also wanted to know what it has running in it because ive heard/read many times that people consider the 360 graphics to be superior to a PC's graphics.

Well, thems fightin words, hehe....j/k

Seriously though, since I had heard this statment on several occasions, I wanted to know, on that particular topic, which was better....."MY PC OR THE 360"

Since the V.card in a 360 is equivelent to a 7800, then I have to say that MY graphics are better.....Which brings back up the original statment that people say "360 graphics are better"....well, that should be amended to say..

"360 graphics are better than MOST people's computers".

So, I guess when I heard/read that statment, I might have taken it a bit too literally and thought it was being said about ALL computers were weaker than the 360. I guess Its kinda my fault cause I "ass u me d" most other people with computers would be up to date and upgraded, but I guess there are alot of people out there who still use old, inferior PC parts. So, to them, they might have a 6600 still or worse yet, have a 5200 still as I did and therefor, that statment would be correct, for THOSE people, the 360 would be better than their PC.

Hope that clears up the air about this thread a bit :D

Didnt mean to offend anyone if I did, just had to get to the bottom of which was better. I have my answer now.

Thanks for all the replies and comments guys/gals
 
Graphics are better is such a subjective/objective/loaded statement when comparing 360 to pc.

If you take the PC fan approach, you'll hear the following

PC has higher res, more configurable, can upgrade, sli/xfire, constantly evolve, etc etc.

If you take the Console fan approach, you'll hear the following

Non moving target, lower res = more eyecandy, graphics get better as the console ages, common hardware platform, etc etc..

Both are right.

Take Oblivion. On the 360, for everyone it looks good, so you $AMOUNT spent has the same "graphical" value as the next person (not counting the display, thats seperate but lets say its the same as your monitor)

On the PC, depending on your vid card, you may/may not be able to use HDR+AA, you will be limited in res, sliders may not go all the way, etc etc. They might as well.

Now for some people, the ability to configure/tweak every part of the pc to run as they see fit is great. Some people loathe it.

Again, both are right, both are correct.

What I am basically saying is you can't simply boil it down to "is my pc better than a 360?" cause, for writing letters, it is, for playing project gotham, its not, for being a media center with mythtv, it is, for play geometry wars, its not.

So, 400 dollars buys you a console, it plays games, graphics are good, the better the display, the better it looks, they will look better as the console ages, every game will work,

Simple.
 
Your computer isn't THAT much more powerful than an xbox360. So the price should be considered fantastic for you or anyone else that probably spent ~1.5 to 2k on their PC. Hell it's only that cheap because normal people don't do such things.

Also, besides my Conroe x1900 crossfire rig could take my 360's lunch money, I'm having more fun with the console at the moment. I bought Intel gear because I was having problems with my PC. A beta bios ended up fixing my AMD rig (major hardware stalls between my HDD and chipset) but i had gone Intel already. Major headaches. I consider my self an advanced user but I got bit by bugs. Hell I couldn't have done anything more. I needed that bios and I had to wait months. My rig was only stable enough for general use. I was tweaking memory settings until kingdom come until I saw the stalls in the event viewer of administrative tools. My rig depreciated a couple hundred bucks in the process. Sweet huh? My PC hell is actually what prompted to purchase the thing a couple of months ago.
 
The missing info in all this is, does your wife care? I mean, what sort of games does she like? Based on the 360's library I don't think you'll find much you both like, considering she's really into ms. pacman. I think you'd be better off waiting for the Wii or just picking up a gamecube.
 
I just bought a 360 a few days ago after purchasing a 1080p Westinghouse HDTV and so far I have mixed feelings about it. A lot of the good games available on the system can be found on the PC and if you have a 7900/X1900 class card then you can probably run it better on the PC than the 360. On the positive side, the 360's xbox live service is setup really well so you can download all kinds of game demos to see if you like what it has to offer and adding/inviting friends to a multiplayer game is very easy. Furthermore, I had some guests over and we hosted a 16 player GRAW match (four of us were using my 360) and it was great fun, something you could never do with the PC unless you were at a lan party.

As for graphical power, as I mentioned above, if you have a 7900/X1900 class card then the PC will give you better visuals than the 360 in a lot of games but at the same time most of those games will be limited to first person shooters; the 360 offers a lot more than just shooters and it does it with a lot of eye candy--take Kameo for instance, it looks fantastic and its the type of game you won't ever find on a PC.

Lastly, like you, my wife doesn't like PC gaming either but for some reason she does enjoy playing DOA4 on the 360 and she seemed to take a liking ot Kameo as well so I'm going to keep the system since it's something her and I can play together. It's also great to have when guests come over and we can all get into a quick MP game on Xbox Live. As I stated earlier in this post, a lot of the 360's good games can be found on the PC right now but it's also got a lot of games coming out later this year and in 2007 that won't be found on the PC and those are what will truly make this system shine.
 
I just built a new Core 2 Duo (6700) machine with a 7900GT.
I can honestly say that that 360's putting up similar numbers in 720p as the PC does in 1680X1050. Granted there's definite resolution jump there...but that's not bad at all.
The 360's a powerful system. The only knock on it is that if a developer turns vsync off (a la Saint's Row or Perfect Dark), you're stuck with image tearing out the wazoo.
 
SAW said:
Just to keep it interesting..

The FPS I get playing Oblivion is MAXED at 60 using FRAPS to see the FPS. It goes down to about 35-40 FPS when its raining in the game. I think the lowest Ive seen the FPS go on my computer was about 25 and thats when I was fighting some dude outside WHILE it was raining.

I have EVERY single slider bar MAXED....yes, even the shadows. I have HDR enabled too and of course, water reflections....I LOVE my computer....

I'll still get the 360, eventually, but only so my wife and I can play together, other than that, Im a 100% PC gamer :D
Click to expand...
At what res? ANY AA or AF? :confused:

No way can you have a everything maxed with your "little" 7900GT. :rolleyes:

On topic: I think a Wii would be your best bet. Be sure you try one out before you buy the 360. Or, if you wanted to go cheap, grab a gamecube. there is much fun to be had with super monkey ball(1+2), mario kart, and others.
 
I agree with everyone that mentioned the Wii as your best bet. If you're looking to have fun with the wifey (and single-player as well) for not too much cash, it looks like the way to go. I'm so damn excited to try it out..
 
LuminaryJanitor said:
I thought ALUs only dealt with integer and logical operations. Aren't shader operations all floating point?
Click to expand...


You're right, for some reason, lately I keep saying ALU where I should say processor. I have a stupid brain.
 
I always, and still do, take my computer to friends houses for LAN parties and such. ALong with that came the 10-30 minutes of trying to get the computers talking to each other, then getting the internet up on all of em. After that there was was the process of trying to find a good server on whichever game we were playing. Even though the 360's games arent any better looking that the games on my computer (specs in sig) I can take it there plug it in and it works. Overall I think the best thing about the 360 is playing with friends on Xbox Live. I've never had any problems.
 
I think op just want to start a stupid flame war

everyone knows that price + consoles specs can't not be beaten by a computer in current generation

if you are so happy with your pc stick with it. If not go get your butt to gamestop and buy a used ps2 big for 80 bucks.
 
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