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Major Hardware Problem. Please help.

P

Phantom Wrath

n00b
Joined
Aug 27, 2004
Messages
50
Please bear with me. I want to be as thorough as possible in explaining what I have done. I've been at this problem for 5 days with no luck. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

I'm trying to fix a major computer problem for a friend. His specs are:

Asus P4G8X Deluxe
P4 3.06 HT
512MB Corsair XMS
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro XT
WD HDD (unknown size)
IBM Deathstar (unknown size)
Hercules Fortissimo III 7.1 Sound
Leadtek Winfast TV2000 XP Deluxe

The reason I don't know HDD capacity is the comp is currently running CPU burn in and I don't wanna mess with it right now.

Anyway, he brought the comp to me after complaining that it wouldn't power on at all. Long story short, I removed the HSF to find that the CPU was stuck to the bottom of the HSF! The lock down lever on the socket was still down in the locked position, but with very little effort I was able to pull both the HSF and CPU up. The reason the CPU was dislodged from the socket is that the massive, all-copper, Zalman HSF pulled it loose during transport. Anyway, I inspected the CPU and there were no bent/missing pins so I cleaned the Artic Silver off, applied new AS and reinstalled the HSF and CPU. The comp booted fine on the first try. So, he brings it back to his place and now it would restart at the Windows boot logo nearly every time. So, he brings it back to me and I've been at this for 5 days with no success. Below is a listing of nearly everything that I've done.

1) I first removed all hardware except cpu, mem, HDD, CDROM, and vid card. Then, formatted the Western Digital drive (which is where Windows is locared) and reinstalled windows. Upon installation of CAT 4.8 drivers, it would begin restarting at boot logo again and upon removal everything seemed to clear up.
2) The next day, the comp began restarting at boot logo again so I popped in my GeForce 4 Ti 4200 and the problem persisted. This rules out the Radeon or the CAT drivers.
3) Formatted again, but this time I could not even finish the Windows installation. The computer would reboot at various points along the installation anywhere from formatting to finishing installation. Thinking this was a hard drive problem, I put the drive in my computer and was able to install windows without a hitch. Was even able to install all my drivers, install programs and get online. Not a single problem restarting in windows or during boot up. This rules out the hard drive.
4) So, I found the ultimate boot cd and began running diagnostics.
memtest 86 and memtest 86+ ran fine without a hitch with 4 passes each and 100% pass.
CPU burn-in ran through 4,000,000 iterations and the comp did eventually restart. However, I am running it again as I type this and it has been going nearly 4 hours and 20,000,000+ iterations without a problem.
The newest version of DLGDIAG (western digital diagonostic tool) would not run at all however, the older version would and the drive passed all tests. Did the same for the Deathstar and, amazingly, it passed.
5) Finally got frustrated and completely disassembled the machine. Took out the mobo and upon visual instection it looks fine. The socket doesn't appear to be damaged and I didn't see any missing resistors, burst capacitors or anything blatently wrong. Reassembled it tonight, even using new IDE cables. Double and triple checked my connections and the comp still refuses to finish an installation of Windows. Many times it won't even get past the initial part where you select the drive you wish to install windows on.

I am frustrated as hell. It can't be a cooling problem, if it were I wouldn't be able to run CPU burn in as long as I have. Memory has past the tests, hard drive works in other computers, and the same problem happens with different video cards installed. I'm thinking that it has to be someting with the mobo. If it is, why would I be able to run all these diagnostic tools back to back without the comp restarting, yet anytime I try to do something with Windows, it starts acting up? I'm confused? Thanks for reading this far and any help is greatly appreciated. It's going on 4:00AM and I'm going to bed. Thanks again.

[Edit: Mistyped the mobo model number]
 
Power Supply ?
Memtest and CPU testing only load the memory or cpu and nothing else.
As soon as you load cpu and hard drive then it fails.
If the hard drive/ memory/ cpu are good the the power supply is suspect.
What are the voltages.
Try a known good one in it.
If it still fails then the mobo becomes suspect.

Luck........ :D
 
Thanks for the response.

I forgot to mention that I've already tested that. I put my PS in the comp and still had the same problem with restarting. The only thing I know left to do is to flash the bios. But, the comp was working one minute and after the CPU became dislodged it stopped working, so I wouldn't think the bios would be the problem.

I'm pretty damn sure it's the mobo and/or the CPU. I just wanna make sure of this before letting him know that he has an expensive repair on his hands.

Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
Sorry, forgot to post the voltages.

CPU : 1.55V
AGP : 1.6V
DDR : 2.5V

Everything is stock settings. The CPU has never been OC'd at all. Again, any help is appreciated.
 
Have you checked the memory? If you want PM your email so I can provide you w/ a tool that will allow you check all your RAM modules. :cool:
 
Outside posibility.
The northbridge heatsink has been dislogded slightly and its overheating.
Try removeing it, cleaning old tim off, etc, etc.

If that dont work then it posible that the southbridge/ ide slots could be damaged.

Luck......... :D
u=Tigerbiten.gif
 
Fx02: I've run memtest86 and memtest86+ from the ultimate boot cd and everything checked out fine.

Tigerbiten: It's not the northbridge heat sink that was dislodged. It is the actual CPU heat sink that came loose. When I removed the heatsink, which is a Zalman CNPS7000-Cu , the actual CPU was attached to the bottom, held on by some AS5. The AS5 wasn't baked on or anything and I was able to remove the P4 from the heatsink with no difficulty at all. I was then able to remove the AS5 with a Q-Tip and rubbing alcohol. It came right off.

The CPU came right out of the socket, very easily. The only force required to remove the Zalman was the force required to pick up the all copper behemoth. It didn't fight me at all. The locking lever on the socket was down in the locked position as well.

Any other suggestions? I'm getting pretty desperate here. Thanks again for responding.
 
UPDATE:

I was finally able to get Windows installed tonight. Every other attempt at a full format triggered a restart. This time, I just did a quick format and Windows installed successfully. I was able to install the following drivers: CAT 4.8, NIC, Sound, USB 2.0.
I was also able to install anti virus software. Restarted the computer 5 times after each to see if any would trigger a restart at the boot logo. None did.
Finally, after everything was installed I restarted once more just to see if anything was wrong. Sure enough, it didn't let me down and it restarted at the boot logo.
So, I restarted a few more times using Normal Windows Startup, to no avail. So, I tried the Last Known Good Configuration a few times and that didn't work. Finally, just resorted to Safe Mode and that worked like a charm. I instantly restarted the computer, making no changes while in Safe Mode, and let it boot Windows normally. Sure enough, it went straight to Windows with no restart at the boot logo.
That's where I'm at now. I'm going to try a few more things and see if I can work this out. I'll keep you posted and as always and input on this situation is appreciated.

BTW: I unplugged the Reset Switch from the mobo after Windows restarted the first time tonight. I figured it could be a faulty switch or something. But, it still continued to restart at boot logo. So, it's not the reset switch. Could be a bad trace in the mobo itself. Who knows?
 
UPDATE 2:

Alright, the problem seemed to go away, but it's not. The owner of the computer came by to stress test it and was able to cause a restart. This time, in Windows. What killed it was DOOM 3. Hopefully, I'll be able to figure out what this is. But, I seriously doubt it. Any help is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks again.
 
I'd look into the motherboard's mounting to the case. If there is some place where grounding might be taking place, it could cause such an annomally (I had a SOYO KT400 Dragon Ultra Platinum that behaved in a similar way whenever I went to stress the graphics card, finally it went away after I carefully remounted the motherboard with those washers underneath to insure no unwanted grounding was taking place.) Another possibility is that your Corsair ram needs more voltage? I realize you've run Memtest86 (+) for a few (4) passes, to be honest I usually don't consider the test finished until 11 passes have gone (or I'll just leave it on overnight). There have been cases where memory errors only came up in Memtest for me after the 10th pass so I have reasons for running it longer. I'd feed the Corsair XMS 2.7Vdimm though as thats really what its specifications call for (if you look on their website under your specific dimm, you'll see what I mean). One more thing about the grounding issue, if the case/computer was moved in a way that was jarring enough for the heatsink to pull the processor out of the socket while still remaining attached to the motherboard mounts, I'd recommend just reseating the whole motherboard just in case it was also jarred and moved somehow causing a grounding situation.

edit:
In fact, try running the system outside of the case completely. Put it on something non-conductive (like wood --but not like the anti-static bags) and see if the results change.
 
CVNet1: I tried your suggestions and increased DDR voltage to 2.7V and also removed the mobo from the case and just put it on my desk. The computer would still restart at the boot logo. However, when I am able to get Windows to load, it will run stabley until I load DOOM3. That seems to be the only program that will cause a restart. I haven't run many other programs in Windows to try and diagnose the program. I am able to run Prime95 for hours on end.

The owner of the computer needs the computer up and running ASAP for school work and other things so I will attempt to RMA the board back to ASUS. But, if you have an idea of what could be causing all of this, please let me know. Thanks for all the help.
 
Seems odd that it only restarts at the boot logo *sometimes*. If it actually makes it into windows though, it runs stable until you try doom 3? Sounds more like a software issue to me, though I don't know what software it would be. You said that video card stress tests work just fine, so that shouldn't be the problem.

The only other hardware thing I would try would be to put a different dimm in and see if it runs more stable. Could be corrupted memory that for some strange reason, runs stable every now and then. Other than that, ps. BTW, what wattage is the power supply, and what wattage is the other power supply you tested with?

Edit: Nevermind, you already said you tried different ram.
 
From the sound of it its [H]ard disk drive activity thats causeing the problems.

You cannot full format.
You cannot run a full disk check.
It reboots loading Windozes.
Does it reboot loading the Doom3 or when your in it when theres no drive activity..
If you defrag the drive does it cause it to reboot.

Have you a PCI hard drive card you could try in it ?
Try swopping the drive to the other IDE channel.


Luck......... :D
u=Tigerbiten.gif
 
You might try making sure that 9800 is not plugged into the same power lead as the hard drives. They have been known to cause some hard drive problems when hooked to the same leads.
 
It sounds like a HDD problem to me. Also I agree with sarge are you sure you do not have the 9800 on the same line as the HDD?
 
If you make it into windows again, turn off the automatic restart option, that way the good ol' bsod can tell you whats fooking up.
 
First off, I really appreciate all the input and help from everyone.

Anyway, I've made my first significant breakthrough today. :) As of now, I'm pretty sure that the problem is indeed the power supply. I'll explain why in a minute.

I decided to once again, swap out major pieces of hardware to see if I could pinpoint the problem. The last time I did this, I was having a bad day, pissed at this computer, and short on patience. So, I wasn't as thorough with my testing as I should have been. Today, I have more patience. Anywhoo, in the "broken" computer I swapped out the following hardware:

650W Enermax PSU with Fortron 350W PSU
Radeon 9800XT with Ti4200
512MB Corsair XMS with 512MB Kingston ValueRam

Definately a downgrade, but I was able to boot into Windows succesfully and able to play DOOM3 for roughly 30 minutes. In past tests I was unable to run it for even 10 minutes.

Into my computer, I put in the following [H]ardware:
Radeon 9800XT
650W Enermax PSU

I was able to load Windows successfully, however RIGHT after I finished burning a CD for a friend, the computer restarted. So, the problem lies within the Radeon or the PSU. So, I was able to get back into Windows and I came here to post my recent discovery. While doing that, the computer restarted again. My computer has previously NEVER had this porblem. I should also note that the computer would restart at the boot logo, just as it did in the other computer.

As the computer was restarting, I reached over and felt the back of the Radeon, touching the copper heat spreader on the rear. It was pretty damn hot so I flipped my rocker switch to turn on my 2 x 120mm Sunon intake fans. This instantly triggered a restart! So, I turned the fans off and right before the computer POSTed I flipped the switch again. I did this 2 more times, both causing a restart. This also had never happened with my computer. So, I removed the Radeon from my computer and put my GeForce Ti4200 back in. Hit the power button and right before it posted I flipped the switch to turn on the fans again... and it restarted! Bingo! We have a winner. Well, at least I'm pretty sure.

There's also a new annoying high pitched noise coming from my computer now. And the only "new" part in there is the Enermax PSU... So, I'm going to try and trigger some more restarts within Windows here and if it does, I'm thinking that it has to be the PSU. I'll power up the other guy's comp and see if it restarts any as well.

Any other thoughts or opinions on this guys? Thanks again.

-PW
 
Power supply. Case closed.
The high pitched squeel is probably one of two things:

1. A failing cap that has already burst and is leaking electrolyte
2. A mosfet that was damaged during assembly at the factory and is improperly regulating voltage.

The fact that when you put the system under stress from either the Sunons or by running intense software that it reboots, suggests an under-wattage issue. Remember, volts and amps are seperate beasts that don't always flock together nicely.

All your diagnostics point to one undeniable fact, the power supply is not outputing the proper wattage. When enough of a load is placed on the PSU, the circuit does a quick soft reset. This is a failsafe in case there was an accidental short or a component suddenly surged and began to draw much more power than safely allowed. That sudden drop in power forces the system to reboot suddenly.

Windows is becomming damaged because as it's loading critical portions into RAM, those portions are lost when the system reboots as the PSU heats up. The system isn't shutting down properly to write those data segments back to the drive.
 
The_Mage18: Thanks for your reply. I think you're right on the money.

Tigerbiten: I should have listened to you the first time and tested the PSU more instead of just putting a different one in and seeing if Windows will load ot not. Oh well, I've learned my lesson. If I would have taken even 10 minutes to check it out more, I wouldn't be here now, having wasted several days on a dead power supply.

Anywhoo, I'm 99% sure that it is indeed the PSU. After inspecting the power supply, I noticed that for some weird reason, it was switched to 230V... I have no idea why. So, I switched it back to 115V and the high pitched noise is gone. Not sure if it's gone for good, this is the first time I've booted up the computer. I don't know how long the computer has been running like this either. Hopefully, the power supply isn't permantly damaged. Could it be?

I put the Corsair RAM back into the "broken" computer so all the original parts are back in it, except for the Enermax power supply. I was able to load Windows without a problem and play DOOM3 for about an hour with graphic detail set on High @ 1280x1024. Definately longer than before.

Going off topic here, but the game is absolute eye-candy on his machine. Wish I had more money to give my old machine the boot. The old T-Bird 1.33 and Ti4200 don't cut it anymore... Haven't for a while. Anywhoo, that's another problem for another day. :p Unless someone wants to donate some [H]ardware to a broke college kid. ;) Anyway, enough of this machine tonight. I'll run some more tests tomorrow after class and confirm that this is the problem at hand.

Thanks again all and if you have anymore input on this, please feel free to add your .02
 
Well, everything's as good as gold. I tested the computer more today by running some more DOOM3, which always caused a restart in the past, Prime95, and just basic use. Tested it last night as well with basic everyday computer use. Not a single restart once. So, I did a full format, reinstalled Windows again, got all the drivers installed, SP2 and all other Window's Updates. Brought the computer back to the owner and he is extremely pleased.

Thanks again for all your help and advice. :D I really appreciate it. :D :D :D
 
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