M-Audio Revo CPU hit, for real.

hooting_monkey said:
Well first off, most of you are just repeating what you hear from others. The algorithm used in Creative cards produce no abnormal artifacts during normal listening. It only becomes apparent when you are using test tones. The Revo is not a signifigant step above the Audgys in sound quality. Period. Before you people shoot your load over the Revo's quality I suggest you buy something besides multimedia speakers. I you still want EAX without the algorithm use an Audigy 2 NX. It doesn't use the Emu102k and therefore is not subject to the algorithm.
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I have to sort of disagree. The Revo is leaps and bound beyond the Audigy 2 when it comes to music, especially on a high end amp and speakers like I have. With games the margin is really cut, so in that respect I can agree with you. I do just as much audio editing as I do gaming. I have a very high end sound card in my "music-only" machine going straight to reference monitors. I've heard the Revo and Audigy2 play music in a similar PC on the same reference speakers. The difference is night and day.
 
I think that there might be some problem with the population who would buy a Revo. I didn't care about the gaming performance of the Revo. I still don't. I don't play FPS, or other kinds of games that make a difference with framerates. Generally, people who are concerned about these things are not going to consider a Revo. With that said, take a look at these reviews. They evaluate CPU loads.

http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2003q2/maudio-rev/index.x?pg=5

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/m-audio-revolution71/index.html
 
hooting_monkey said:
"...a cursory glance at any RMAA results from the two cards would have told you that."

A strage curiosity occured when I did. Amazingly the Audigy has lower corsstalk, lower noise, and better dynamic range. Sadly the Revo was stuck in the dismal 80's for dynamic range, whilst the Audigy was at a good solid 94.
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Let's see what the fine Ruskie soundcard reviewers over at digitlife.com have to say about this...
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/m-audio-revolution71/index.html
Tests in RMAA 5.1

The card was compared to the reference one Lynx Two (117 dB SNR). A short low-noise microphone cable, Proel, with gold-plated connectors was used to connect the cards. The input sensitivity of the Lynx Two is standard: -10 dB V. The output signal amplitude is low, that is why the recorded signal was normalized up to the required level.
Front output

Mode of operation: 16 bit 44 kHz

Frequency response (40 Hz to 15 kHz), dB: +0.13, -0.06 Very good
Noise level, dB (A): -92.2 Very good
Dynamic range, dB (A): 92.6 Very good
THD, %: 0.0007 Excellent
Intermodulation distortions, %: 0.0068 Excellent
Channel crosstalk, dB: -93.9 Excellent

General performance: Very good
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It's a shame that they didn't exactly do a head to head, but It seems evident that you did not run RMAA correctly. I'll trust the russians, thank you.
 
GodsMadClown said:
I think that there might be some problem with the population who would buy a Revo. I didn't care about the gaming performance of the Revo. I still don't. I don't play FPS, or other kinds of games that make a difference with framerates. Generally, people who are concerned about these things are not going to consider a Revo. With that said, take a look at these reviews. They evaluate CPU loads.

http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2003q2/maudio-rev/index.x?pg=5

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/m-audio-revolution71/index.html
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THANK YOU!! At least someone is on topic. I already ordered the Revo. ALthough I do game heavily, I can't pull away from my audio roots. I'm willing to take a hit for some superior sound and since I will be working with mild music editing and lots of listening, this should serve me well. Thanks again.
 
Ya know what, I just ordered an Audigy 2 zs as well, just to compare on my own machine under the same circumstances. I'll report back what I find.
 
Wow. You have more money and time than I do. Well, that's not quite true. I ahve time while I'm here at work. I just have no time at home. I look forward to youor perspective.
 
einsig said:
Ya know what, I just ordered an Audigy 2 zs as well, just to compare on my own machine under the same circumstances. I'll report back what I find.
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Hehe, I did the same exact thing.

Revo + A2 ZS + Onboard Soundstorm.

Guess which card gets the most use? :)

*coughrevocough* And I do quite a bit of gaming myself.

The A2 is now in my sorta HTPC/Server box, and the only time I use the SoundStorm is for a couple of FPS games that support 5.1 HRTF sound.
 
hooting_monkey said:
"...a cursory glance at any RMAA results from the two cards would have told you that."

A strage curiosity occured when I did. Amazingly the Audigy has lower corsstalk, lower noise, and better dynamic range. Sadly the Revo was stuck in the dismal 80's for dynamic range, whilst the Audigy was at a good solid 94.
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Alas, the frequency response curve of the Audigys look really bad in comparison to that of the Revo. Both the low end and the high end of the Audigys roll off rather sharply (the treble even more so), and everything above the midrange waves up and down in a cyclic pattern. And all those sharp peaks and valleys put together - especially in the frequency range in which human hearing is most sensitive to - causes listening fatigue. The frequency response curve is the most important consideration here. The Revo produces a remarkably flat response curve (although the treble response is just a tad on the bright side). The Audigys' response curve is far from flat - and the deviations are more towards the fatiguing side.
 
I think you people should shut up, sit down and enjoy your onboard CODECs.

You know you want to.

You chafe at the very idea of having to use a standalone card, fully aware that your motherboard manufacturer spent upwards of fifteen cents (American $!) to pay for that Realtek/Cmedia/ADI/VIA CODEC.

And what's more, it supports EAX 1 and maybe even 2 in software, plus possibly even some of the Sensaura algorithms.

And it has an integrated headphone amp!

So pull your crappy 24 bit cards with their stupid multi-dollar converters, discrete opamps and multiple capacitors and throw them in the dustbin of history.

Your CODEC is calling, don't you want to answer the phone?
 
leukotriene said:
I think you people should shut up, sit down and enjoy your onboard CODECs.

You know you want to.

You chafe at the very idea of having to use a standalone card, fully aware that your motherboard manufacturer spent upwards of fifteen cents (American $!) to pay for that Realtek/Cmedia/ADI/VIA CODEC.

And what's more, it supports EAX 1 and maybe even 2 in software, plus possibly even some of the Sensaura algorithms.

And it has an integrated headphone amp!

So pull your crappy 24 bit cards with their stupid multi-dollar converters, discrete opamps and multiple capacitors and throw them in the dustbin of history.

Your CODEC is calling, don't you want to answer the phone?
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Better still, pull all of those craptacular super-fast, AGP- and PCIe-equipped computers with their stupid multimedia capabilities, super-large hard drives and 3D graphics capabilities and throw them into the circular file of history! And go all the way back to a 108kHz i4004-based computer with just 2K or RAM and no color or graphics or multimedia capabilities at all whatsoever!

(Sorry, but I had to respond.)

With that "sarcasm to fight sarcasm" aside, also in response to that sarcastic post by leukotriene, a few of today's motherboards lack any AC97 codec-based audio solution at all whatsoever (Intel's D875PBZ motherboard comes to mind here - no retail or bulk version is even offered at all with integrated audio). Thus, in such a motherboard, then a soundcard is necessary. But Creative, in addition to the shortcomings in sound quality, is notorious for not playing nice with certain motherboard core-logic chipsets and certain motherboard BIOSes.
 
Its funny, because these people DO know how to run RMAA.

"What disappointed us about the card [Revolution 7.1] was its so-so performance in RMAA. It's at better than 80dB dynamic range, which isn't bad, but at this point, a PC-based sound card should be at better than 90dB dynamic range before you really consider buying it."
 
a few of today's motherboards lack any AC97 codec-based audio solution at all whatsoever (Intel's D875PBZ motherboard comes to mind here - no retail or bulk version is even offered at all with integrated audio). Thus, in such a motherboard, then a soundcard is necessary.
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Such boards are an unbelievably tiny minority or current boards and so essentially irrelevant to any discussion about anything except oddball boards that no one bought.
 
"...and everything above the midrange waves up and down in a cyclic pattern."

Well so far on every review site I have been to I have seen no evidence of this. The treble could be better, but thats why I have and EQ.
 
hooting_monkey said:
Its funny, because these people DO know how to run RMAA.

"What disappointed us about the card [Revolution 7.1] was its so-so performance in RMAA. It's at better than 80dB dynamic range, which isn't bad, but at this point, a PC-based sound card should be at better than 90dB dynamic range before you really consider buying it."
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But the Audigy series is not very good for music listening, either, due to its relatively poor frequency response performance. So, you'll have to seriously compromise in this price range.

It seems as though the only PC-based soundcards that deliver both superior dynamic range and superlative subjective sound quality are all extremely pricey, two-channel-only cards that don't support any of the widely used 3D gaming positional-audio APIs at all.

hooting_monkey said:
"...and everything above the midrange waves up and down in a cyclic pattern."

Well so far on every review site I have been to I have seen no evidence of this. The treble could be better, but thats why I have and EQ.
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Actually, much of the cause of that cyclic pattern (and yes, I am very sensitive to even 0.01 dB in deviation) is from the horrible resampling alogarithm that Creative uses for its Audigy series of soundcards. The cyclic curve is based on 44.1kHz audio files played back through the Audigys. Those files were forced to be resampled to 48kHz in hardware. And the IMD (Intermodulation Distortion) of the Audigys is extremely poor in comparison to that of other soundcards on the market at each of the price points in which the Audigy series compete with.
 
Actually, much of the cause of that cyclic pattern (and yes, I am very sensitive to even 0.01 dB in deviation) is from the horrible resampling alogarithm that Creative uses for its Audigy series of soundcards. The cyclic curve is based on 44.1kHz audio files played back through the Audigys. Those files were forced to be resampled to 48kHz in hardware. And the IMD (Intermodulation Distortion) of the Audigys is extremely poor in comparison to that of other soundcards on the market at each of the price points in which the Audigy series compete with.
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Hmmm, subjective analysis of rightmark results.
OK, I want to play.
Where are these results we are offering subjective analysis of?
 
Okay, so I screw up at times over this issue. :eek:

Honestly, for music the Audigy2 ZS doesn't suck so badly with its hardware-based resampling alogarithm like previous Sound Blaster PCI cards from the Live! to the non-ZS Audigy2 did. Still, the sound quality of hardware-resampled audio can be mediocre compared to that of the better-sounding cards in the same price range.

As for the sound quality on games, well, the Revo is not so hot. the Sensaura alogarithm for gaming audio makes gaming audio sound a bit dull and flat compared to Creative's alogarithm for gaming audio.

I think I may compromise on this issue, and still want only one soundcard for everything. And it's much easier to make a soundcard that sounds great on music than it is to make a soundcard that sounds even halfway decent on games. So, if you do a mix of everything, OR if you use the computer mostly for gaming, then the A2 ZS series is the one to choose (my recommendations are for only the A2 ZS series, NOT for any of the previous Audigy2's/Audigys/Live!'s). If, however, you seldom play games, but listen to a lot of music on the computer, then the Revo is the one to choose between the two. And if you do little of either, well... Your motherboard's integrated or onboard audio may suffice. (Well, the word "may" is key, because there will always be some people who are perfectionists no matter what they do.) :p
 
hooting_monkey said:
Its funny, because these people DO know how to run RMAA.

"What disappointed us about the card [Revolution 7.1] was its so-so performance in RMAA. It's at better than 80dB dynamic range, which isn't bad, but at this point, a PC-based sound card should be at better than 90dB dynamic range before you really consider buying it."
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Well it's obvious that either one set of results is wrong, or their card was defective. Given that I have both a Revo and an A2 and have RMAAed them both, I'm going to have to go with your results being wrong.
 
Auric said:
Well it's obvious that either one set of results is wrong, or their card was defective. Given that I have both a Revo and an A2 and have RMAAed them both, I'm going to have to go with your results being wrong.
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Yep, properly RMAA'd (with the input and output levels set to the best balance between loudness and distortion), the dynamic range results between the two cards are very close to one another - the low-to-mid 90's. But the A2's frequency response curve would look worse than that of the Revo, with a very steep roll-off above 12kHz. In fact, you would have to use a 96kHz sampling rate just for the A2 to even reproduce the upper limit of human hearing.

As for their "low" dynamic range results for the Revo, it appears that they''ve set the output level of the Revo itself too low, forcing them to use a higher input level on the reference recording card. And that will cause reduced dynamic range results with any card under RMAA testing. (Ideally, the output level on the card under test should be set to a point just below the setting at which the output begins to distort - "high distortion in the recorded signal.")
 
I have the Revo 7.1

I play clan ladder matches competively in UT, UT2k4.

I have a AMD 2800+ and a 9800 pro. I notice no stutter while TDM'ing.

If there is a FPS hit. I don't notice it as a lag of 15 fps for even one second in tdm is = getting your ass handed to you on a silver platter.
 
I have a Revo in my rig but I stopped using it for games very quickly , once that seashore soundig bug came up .I use the nforce for games and revo for music and switch between them on the receiver. But it only seem to show up on certain setups and some people have never experienced it . As for CPu hit , its bit higher then onboard but nothing like say going from 2xAA to 4xAA in my case (9600XT).
 
meanmodda[H] said:
I have a Revo in my rig but I stopped using it for games very quickly , once that seashore soundig bug came up .I use the nforce for games and revo for music and switch between them on the receiver. But it only seem to show up on certain setups and some people have never experienced it . As for CPu hit , its bit higher then onboard but nothing like say going from 2xAA to 4xAA in my case (9600XT).
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Yeah what's up with that seashore sounding thing?

Is it a hardware or software problem? I only experienced this with the analog out. Digital out doesn't exhibit this problem. Can't seem to get any 1/2 way decent answer about this.
 
Even my brother noticed that the Windows sounds became choppy and cut-off with the Revo. (And that was using the latest driver version 1028 from M-Audio's website.)

I'd say that the Revo is made up of good hardware but (kinda) crappy drivers.

The dynamic range result for that card in RMAA is in the lower-to-mid 90's, which (although good) pales in comparison to the 100+ dB result that a properly set-up A2 ZS is capable of. And even the A2 ZS pales in dynamic range compared to some cards selling for just a few bucks more. The A2 ZS Platinum Pro ($250 retail) delivers an even greater dynamic range result under RMAA than its cheaper siblings.
 
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