Issue with SBS2003, Dynamic Disks, Mirroring

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Captain Colonoscopy

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We picked up a new client a few months ago that has a cheap Dell Precision Workstation setup as their server. Obviously we would like to move them to a real server but they don't want to do this just yet, maybe a year or so down the road. My quandary is this, I checked their Daily Server Performance Report this morning and saw a Harddisk0 has a bad block error. So I dialed into it and took a look at things in disk management and the event logs. Here are screenshots of what I found:

kruggles02qz6.jpg

By CaptColonoscopy at 2008-09-04

kruggles01az7.jpg

By CaptColonoscopy at 2008-09-04

Now, I haven't messed with a Dynamic Disk since I was studying for my MCSA:2000 about four years ago. I know there is a bad block on Disk0. My only options when I right-click the disks are to "re-activate" but the disks show healthy and online so I am not sure I want to do this. I should also note the "server" is using some cheap ATA100 IDE RAID1/0 software RAID controller. The server seems to be running "fine", there have been no complaints from the owner, I just want to get this taken care of before it becomes a problem. I am guessing the HDD is going bad?

Any thoughts or advice on this would be greatly appreciated.


 
why are you using Dynamic Disks anyway?? I would say that the disk it self is on its way out. Have you done a full scandisk on it to see?
 
Like I said, we DID NOT setup this server. The client is REALLY cheap and didn't want to mess with changing things around, etc. If I had my druthers I wouldn't even be messing with this "server" I would replace it and throw XP Pro back on this and give it to someone as their desktop. I tried running the error check but it won't run while WIndows is running. Need to take the server off-line and run the check. I kinda figured the HDD0 was going bad. Just curious if I should worry about that Dynamic Disk crap.

Owner is a funny guy, though. A lawyer that I am pretty sure is undergoing a sex-change or something. He still goes by his man name but every time I see him he is wearing pumps and women's pants and blouses and shit. Nice enough "guy", just really cheap .. . maybe he is saving up for his operation or something . . .
 
I would worry about the dynamic disk, yes. I would really push him to remove the dynamic disk setup as its always going to be a problem and eventually I expect you will be sorry you ever had to deal with him (if your not already)

I would say that that disk is on its way out and I would advise you to be proactive about it.
 
It appears as though you have two disks set up as RAID1 and one has failed. The 'Reactivate' option will attempt to put the broken disk back online.
 
pigster said:
It appears as though you have two disks set up as RAID1 and one has failed. The 'Reactivate' option will attempt to put the broken disk back online.
Click to expand...

see, that's what I thought, too. But it says that both disks are online and working, but with errors. I guess I will just tell him he has a disk about ready to fail and recommend he replace it....
 
You sure there is hardware RAID going on? Based on this screenie of Disk Mangler....you have software RAID.

Some choices....
*Break the mirror...replace bum drive
*Run a chkdsk /r and see it'll mark the spot and cross yer fingers....hope the failing drive doesn't jump off the cliff before a real server is put in.

Software RAID plus IDE disks on heavy SBS...ugh....whatever you do, it'll take a long time.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
You sure there is hardware RAID going on? Based on this screenie of Disk Mangler....you have software RAID.

Some choices....
*Break the mirror...replace bum drive
*Run a chkdsk /r and see it'll mark the spot and cross yer fingers....hope the failing drive doesn't jump off the cliff before a real server is put in.

Software RAID plus IDE disks on heavy SBS...ugh....whatever you do, it'll take a long time.
Click to expand...

The thing has an add-in IDE card of some sort, I assumed it was a cheap RAID0/1 board but it certainly appears that it is not. That was part of what was confusing me....

With the dynamic disks, do I need to break the mirror before I replace the drive and then re-activate when it comes back up? My big concern here is that I replace the frigging drive and then the stupid server won't boot back up. I am really hating this setup . . . .
 
if it was a raid card then why would he run dynamic disks??

I would inform him that he is months if not weeks away from total falure and he should think about a new server with a few SAS disks in RAID using a proper RAID Card. I would advise looking at HP or Dell servers with 3 year next day business, this should take the pressure of you a bit.
 
Jay_oasis said:
if it was a raid card then why would he run dynamic disks??

I would inform him that he is months if not weeks away from total falure and he should think about a new server with a few SAS disks in RAID using a proper RAID Card. I would advise looking at HP or Dell servers with 3 year next day business, this should take the pressure of you a bit.
Click to expand...

We want to push them to a new server, maybe this will help. We only sell HP servers so it will probably be an ML350 or an ML150.

My best guess, knowing this guy, is that he would rather replace the drive and break the server for a few days and pay us a few thousand dollars to get the stupid thing running again before he would buy a new server . . . . . You guys know how cheap clients are, they will spend more money being cheap than if they would have just bought what they needed to the first time . . .
 
Captain Colonoscopy said:
The thing has an add-in IDE card of some sort, I assumed it was a cheap RAID0/1 board but it certainly appears that it is not. That was part of what was confusing me.....
Click to expand...

Maybe it was, but they couldn't find server certified drivers to feed the SBS install with a floppy? Dunno.

If this were a few years ago, I'd say maybe a Promise ATA 133 controller card.
 
yes, the MLs are very good and I think that is the correct way to go
 
okay, so I did some more digging on that server and it looks like the server has two Seagate 80GB SATAII HDDs. The server appears to have support for SATA RAID0/1 but the original vendor was either too lazy or to stupid to install the RAID drivers during windows setup. Fantastic. Guess we'll see what the boss wants to do about this one. . . .

kruggles03mp2.jpg

By captcolonoscopy at 2008-09-04
 
See if the hardware RAID controller supports making a RAID 1 with a drive with existing data...some hardware RAID controllers support this. If so, blow away the existing software mirror, make sure the hardware RAID controller has drivers installed into Windows.

Take necessary precautions to backup the server first, maybe image current drive to a 3rd drive "just in case".
 
If its basic onboard RAID then I would advise you to get a propper RAID card.
 
Jay_oasis said:
If its basic onboard RAID then I would advise you to get a propper RAID card.
Click to expand...

If it's just a standard workstation (it's a precision, not a poweredge)...who knows what proper server grade RAID controller will work without issues on it. Once that kind of money is spent (server grade RAID)...why not go the other 2/3 of the football field and go real server. Probably already has a backup drive, so another ML350 on a firesale at the local wholesaler won't cost much more (already has the OS, probably backup drive, hopefully adequate APC)
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
If it's just a standard workstation (it's a precision, not a poweredge)...who knows what proper server grade RAID controller will work without issues on it. Once that kind of money is spent (server grade RAID)...why not go the other 2/3 of the football field and go real server. Probably already has a backup drive, so another ML350 on a firesale at the local wholesaler won't cost much more (already has the OS, probably backup drive, hopefully adequate APC)
Click to expand...

LOL, um no. There is no battery backup. He is plugged into an APC powerstrip. The server sits on top of a Microwave cart. The backups consist of two different USB external HDDs that he rotates out every Friday. They use the SBS backup to do a full system backup every night. The backups have been good the last few weeks so that is comforting at least. This is a cheap trans gendered lawyer saving up for his operation . . . .
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
See if the hardware RAID controller supports making a RAID 1 with a drive with existing data...some hardware RAID controllers support this. If so, blow away the existing software mirror, make sure the hardware RAID controller has drivers installed into Windows.

Take necessary precautions to backup the server first, maybe image current drive to a 3rd drive "just in case".
Click to expand...

Hmmm, that;s a good idea. The backups have been good, so this might be an option. I'll have to see if I can find out what RAID controller is in there. I have the dell service tag number thingy, should be able to find out what is in it from that. . . .

Thanks for the input guys. :D
 
Okay, so this is what the boss said:

Frankly, this scares me. I’d almost rather have it die a slow death than have us touch it and break it.

Our ‘obligation’ here is to make man-woman aware of the situation and tell him/her that we believe the server is facing eminent failure and to be sure critical files have been backed up/copied to other sources.

And that, while it may be possible to repair the situation with a new disk, we’re not comfortable performing this task under the current server’s disk configuration. The risk of damaging the mirrored disk’s integrity it too high.

How’s that for fancy pants?

His options are:

1: Continue using the server until it fails. Potential risks include, loss of business productivity, loss of data.

2: Consider a new server (rough estimate $4,500). Benefits include, new server under warranty. Commercial-grade hardware, more reliable/supportable.

I guess we are going to drop that bomb on him tomorrow and give him some weekend action to mull it over. :D
 
Captain Colonoscopy said:
Okay, so this is what the boss said: The risk of damaging the mirrored disk’s integrity it too high.

How’s that for fancy pants?
Click to expand...

Heh...the boss hasn't broken many mirrors eh? It's not too scarey.

But...yeah, the textbook typical approach is to propose a new server.

Getting the existing wimpy wannabe server limping along for another year til a real server can be budgeted in is what will make the consultant shine though. ;) I guess you'll be expected to wear that hat. :D

Ever break a mirror before?
 
i broke a mirror once, four years ago, in my MCSA 2000 class. :D

I'm willing to try it since they have good backups, but ultimately, it's the bosses shop so we will do what he feels comfortable with. Whatever happens it should be interesting . . . .
 
I think I've done 2 in the past year alone. Only heads up I can think of...on the sucky non-server grade hardware such as often in these cases..just give yourself plenty of time when dealing with software RAID mirrors, if you're rebuilding. The bloody chkdsks they go through 'n stuff...or if they are additional partitions..often take a long time to come back.

Beefy server such as SBS with heavy load, + crummy slow PATA/SATA hard drives, + often in this case..since it's cheap...you rarely have 4 gigs of RAM.....

...sit 'n wait...sit 'n wait...sit 'n wait...
 
I agree with your boss.... do what you are contracted to do. No more, no less.
 
I am formulating our official response right now. I get tasked with the email. Going to send some screenshots of the failures and our recommendations. I can wait to get the response. He reluctantly agreed to upgrade the RAM on the thing to 3GB from 1GB, we haven't got the RAM in yet. Then, when we suggested he upgrade to a real firewall from the linksys BFR he is using now he shit a brick. He actually managed to swear and mention nickel-and-diming him . . . this should be fun! :D
 
Breaking a hardware mirror is NOTHING... I've done it a dozen times....

The first time I did it....

Where I work outgrew the space provided by the 2x40GB mirror, so I just shut down server... removed one drive.... cloned (with Ghost) onto a 250GB drive... plugged it back into the raid controller card, with a new 250GB mate, told it to make a NEW Raid array and use Disk 1 as the source and Disk 2 as the target... when it was done cloning(maybe 2 hours) turn machine back on... and the server was now running with 200Gb free....
 
This is a software mirror her has. Still easy though....but you have to (or should) tell Windows you're "breaking" it first, before you shut down and remove. Done in Disk Mangler.

Hardware RAID mirrors..yeah, they're easy...can do it with the server up and running even.

//walks over to brand spanking new ML350 we're building for a dentists office...pulls out one of the 5 SAS drives while the server is running, holds it up "See?"" :D
 
Yep, hardware RAID = easy. Software RAID = WTF were you thinking using software RAID???


mmmm . . . . nothing quite like the smell of a new ML350 in the morning. Personally I like the ML370 g5 better, though. Nothing quite like hearing all six 120mm fans going off at the same time when it boots. That and the capability to hold 16x 2.5" SAS drives in one box is just damn sexy. :D
 
Captain Colonoscopy said:
mmmm . . . . nothing quite like the smell of a new ML350 in the morning. Personally I like the ML370 g5 better, though. Nothing quite like hearing all six 120mm fans going off at the same time when it boots. That and the capability to hold 16x 2.5" SAS drives in one box is just damn sexy. :D
Click to expand...

Yeah...small dentist office, just 15 nodes.

LOL...I love carrying in some servers that have those "full bore" fans on POST. Carry it into an office....set it up, power on....enjoy the sound much like the back runway at JFK airport...watch the office as some of the ladies stand up with a "WTF IS THAT?" look on their face. Before the fans settle down...I usually yet back.."This isn't too loud..is it?" with a serious face. I get about 45 seconds of enjoyment of the look of panic on their face...til Windows gets to bootup and the fans settle down. :cool:

Another sound that I miss...when you slap in a buncha those older 15k rpm universal hot swap drives.....power up the server..the RAID controller initializes each one..one by one. You hear each one spin up. Ahh....it gives me wood almost as effectively as a slinky tanned blond.
 
Brian - i do the same thing with the fans heh. people always get concerned. i wish i had a dentist office that would spend that kind of money. what software they using at the dentist office?
 
marley1 said:
Brian - i do the same thing with the fans heh. people always get concerned. i wish i had a dentist office that would spend that kind of money. what software they using at the dentist office?
Click to expand...

Kodak PracticeWorks, DEXIS, SIDEXIS
 
Here is the response I got back from the trans gendered lawyer:

have you ever known someone and all they've done is bring you bad news?.........This server is barely 2 years old. I am not happy to hear this. I have to deal w/my former vender to see if there is a warranty here for this. Then I will be back to you. All I have done this year is spend money on this business and I am tired of it. Not your fault, of course. Alot of money to pay for a server; I replaced several computers and a server for about $8k 2 yrs ago; don't understand why this would be this expensive.
Click to expand...

Good stuff. I think we are probably going to end up rebuilding the mirror with a new HDD and then replacing the server in a year when it completely fails. I'd really just like to replace the whole damn thing now but it's his money. :D
 
Captain Colonoscopy said:
Here is the response I got back from the trans gendered lawyer:



Good stuff. I think we are probably going to end up rebuilding the mirror with a new HDD and then replacing the server in a year when it completely fails. I'd really just like to replace the whole damn thing now but it's his money. :D
Click to expand...

Sometimes you have to have a clients hardware squeek by another year..til they can budget them in.

Should be fun rolling up your sleeves and dorkin with this server.
Break mirror
Replace bum drive
See if onboard RAID supports non destructive build of a mirror, if not...I suppose lean back on software RAID setup rebuild.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
Sometimes you have to have a clients hardware squeek by another year..til they can budget them in.

Should be fun rolling up your sleeves and dorkin with this server.
Break mirror
Replace bum drive
See if onboard RAID supports non destructive build of a mirror, if not...I suppose lean back on software RAID setup rebuild.
Click to expand...

Yep, that is the plan. :D
 
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