Is valve lying? How does stolen source equate to a delay?

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T-Minus10

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Could someone explain something to me: Why does stolen source code force Valve to delay Half Life 2?

The source code wasn't deleted, it was copied, and even if it was deleted, it's still been distributed to thousands of people over the internet.

Even if Valve is rewriting much of the code (specifically, network code, to prevent security holes/cheating), it would be very difficult if not impossible to rework the algorithms of the code, and if the algorithms of the code remain unchanged, the security holes (at least for cheating) often remain present.

Without a doubt, Valve would have released the code in September if they could, and if not in September than in December for bigger sales. Their persistant delays make me believe that they were never closed to golden master and luckily had this source leak to blame publically for their own personal delays.

Anyways, as an intelligent Valve customer, I feel tricked. I would have been happier if Valve had either given some valid reason why stolen source code equates to delays, or given some real answer like, "Half Life 2 looked pretty at E3 but our September release date was just a hype machine"

Anyways, my two angry cents.
 
WOW YOUR THE FIRST PERSON TO EVER POST THIS!!!!

the truth is even if they did rewrite alot of the code, they werent finished with the game and its not going to come out till summer at earliest and probably fall.

why would a company admit to lying to customers, your still going to buy the game arent you? they know they can delay it as much as they want and it will still make them a ton of money.

Also you dont deserve an apology or an accurate release date from valve.
 
The equation is, for every megabyte captured, there is a 1 month delay. Thats tried and true.

The idiot nabbed about 30 megs.

So by my calculations we have to wait 30 months.. OH NOS....almost 3 years. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Originally posted by T-Minus10
Could someone explain something to me: Why does stolen source code force Valve to delay Half Life 2?
Click to expand...

If they released the game with the stolen code it would mean that it could be easily hacked. Paradise for cheaters (and there are plenty of them out there already).

Now, regardless of whether the code was stolen of not, I respect Valve for not releasing a buggy and/or hacked game (despite of pressure from *ahem* whiners).

It's just a game, so grow some patience and get over it already.
 
Originally posted by glycerine102
The equation is, for every megabyte captured, there is a 1 month delay. Thats tried and true.

The idiot nabbed about 30 megs.

So by my calculations we have to wait 30 months.. OH NOS....almost 3 years. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

but how do they have it russia?

if only 30mb were stolen.
 
Another HL2 thread... oh, just kill me now. No funeral.
 
they stole the source tree (~150megs of txt files) and all the resources (several gigs of artwork)
 
Hmm yeah , wasnt that incident extremely convenient for Valve ,with their track record of releasing games on time it was more a blessing than anything . Hey we're way behind but now we got an excuse to push it as far as we want , at least id soft keeps quiet about doom instead of coming up with bullshit excuses. Maybe they might release TF2 before HL2 the way things are going.
 
hulkdate.jpg


Torgo Smash!
 
Originally posted by T-Minus10
...it would be very difficult if not impossible to rework the algorithms of the code, and if the algorithms of the code remain unchanged, the security holes (at least for cheating) often remain present.
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You were making sense up to this point. Would you mind explaining exactly what algorithims of code are? First time I have ever heard the term as an 8-year IT professional.

What they need to change are the functions and routines of the code, which is not difficult to do at all. What they can't change is the way code interacts with the DirectX layer, and what is difficult to change is the interaction with the other hardware that doesn't interface through DirectX. That is why the game is delayed.

...and just to make you mad, Counter Strike sucks.
 
Wow I've seen this thread before, I swear I have :confused:

Seriously though.... it needs to stop. :mad:
 
Yeah, I'm sure it's been posted a million times, I just wish Valve didn't treat its customers like children.

Originally posted by j0k3r
You were making sense up to this point. Would you mind explaining exactly what algorithims of code are? First time I have ever heard the term as an 8-year IT professional.

What they need to change are the functions and routines of the code, which is not difficult to do at all. What they can't change is the way code interacts with the DirectX layer, and what is difficult to change is the interaction with the other hardware that doesn't interface through DirectX. That is why the game is delayed.
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Please be happy to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm no professional.

If I'm not mistaken, the most important thing to change is the network code. The game's going to cheat somewhere to keep bandwith and latency both low, figuring out the algorithm of how the game keeps the bandwith and latency both low is how a hacker would cheat in multiplayer games.

The algorithm, being the way the network code works in general terms, not in code terms. Any programmer should know what an algorithm is but I'll explain anyways because IT and programming are two different things. IT jobs, for one, aren't being outsourced to India.

What's a stupid example? An algorithm of how to bake a cake is in a book. The code of how to bake a cake would be in the ingrediants. That doesn't quite work but it works just about right.

Anyways, what I was saying was that reworking the methods is simple. However, reworking the entire algorithm would be hugely difficult. Valve would have to solve the low-latency/low-bandwith problem in two entirely different ways? Valve has say a year to solve this problem if they release by September 2004. The same problem has plagued internet users since the internet's conception. I doubt that valve, a game company, given twelve months, could solve a problem that has been worked on for a decade by those that focus on reducing bandwith/latency.

Furthermore, Valve reported that they were releasing Half Life 2 in Single Player and Multiplayer iterations. How does stolen code affect Single Player play anyways?

Why bitch about Half Life 2? Why not? It's the game I'm waiting for. I'm a newbie cheeze, I'm labeled just that so I can be redundant and you guys can say, "use the search function, jackhole" or just ignore my post all together. It's no excuse, but it's the reason these rankings are here in the first place.
 
Look all I am saying is, using the term "algorithm" to describe code just doesn't happen. I understand where you are going with it, but if you were a programmer, you would understand that it just doesn't make sense to use it in that sense.

Granted, Valve could have released the single-player version of the game seeing as how hacked code wouldn't have been an issue... or would it? The routines for network play were in the code of the hacked version. People would have hacked the single player version in a matter of hours and released a mod so everyone could play online and expose themselves to those who can read and interpret code and write back doors to get around it.

Also, this just goes to show the game was not finished. Valve has never been known for their stellar punctuality, and why should we expect anything different with this release. I have a friend who is a texture artist for Valve and she was telling me last August there was no way they would make the deadline.

This was just a convenient excuse for them to delay the release of the game that much longer. Put out of your minds any conspiracy theories you think I may have as well. I think they were legitimately hacked. However it came as a good time for them since they had just inked a rumored 6 million dollar deal with ATI. ATI's products were ready to ship. Where is Half Life 2? Ooops, not done yet. Sorry about that 6 million, the game will come out some time, yeah, some time when the XT hype has died down and they have released a new core.

Go Gabe! What a choad.
 
Doesnt matter, they can just send the data out backwards, and split up functions into new ones and change the api a tiny bit and that would be simple enough to put hackers back at square one. They dont need to do much of anything else.

Originally posted by T-Minus10
Yeah, I'm sure it's been posted a million times, I just wish Valve didn't treat its customers like children.



Please be happy to correct me if I'm wrong. I'm no professional.

If I'm not mistaken, the most important thing to change is the network code. The game's going to cheat somewhere to keep bandwith and latency both low, figuring out the algorithm of how the game keeps the bandwith and latency both low is how a hacker would cheat in multiplayer games.

The algorithm, being the way the network code works in general terms, not in code terms. Any programmer should know what an algorithm is but I'll explain anyways because IT and programming are two different things. IT jobs, for one, aren't being outsourced to India.

What's a stupid example? An algorithm of how to bake a cake is in a book. The code of how to bake a cake would be in the ingrediants. That doesn't quite work but it works just about right.

Anyways, what I was saying was that reworking the methods is simple. However, reworking the entire algorithm would be hugely difficult. Valve would have to solve the low-latency/low-bandwith problem in two entirely different ways? Valve has say a year to solve this problem if they release by September 2004. The same problem has plagued internet users since the internet's conception. I doubt that valve, a game company, given twelve months, could solve a problem that has been worked on for a decade by those that focus on reducing bandwith/latency.

Furthermore, Valve reported that they were releasing Half Life 2 in Single Player and Multiplayer iterations. How does stolen code affect Single Player play anyways?

Why bitch about Half Life 2? Why not? It's the game I'm waiting for. I'm a newbie cheeze, I'm labeled just that so I can be redundant and you guys can say, "use the search function, jackhole" or just ignore my post all together. It's no excuse, but it's the reason these rankings are here in the first place.
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another probable reason is their insistence on using steam as a means for people to purchase and download HL2. they way it is now, there is no way steam could handle it. they are trying to perfect that and the source leaks just keep giving them excuses.
 
I believe that they're going to end up strining us along and keep delaying the game over and over again like what happened to Duke Nukem Forever.
 
Just finished my 3rd cup of coffee for the morning and I am ready to take a nice healthy dump. This thread looks like the perfect spot for it.

<Insert thread crap here>
 
I hope Valve burns to the ground and we all don't EVER see the light of Half-Life 2 EVER!

I should personally slip Gabe Newell a laced ANTHRAX Twinkie (which won't be hard because he's fucking gargantuan).

Then we can all start more HL2 threads about conspiracies about why Valve burned, interoffice setups, assassinations, flashed boobs, interoffice mail, revealing documents, laced creamery filling, WMD, that Geico gekko, and once again WHY HL2 NEVER GOT RELEASED.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program...

Psyko M.
 
Originally posted by meanmodda[H]
Hmm yeah , wasnt that incident extremely convenient for Valve ,with their track record of releasing games on time it was more a blessing than anything . Hey we're way behind but now we got an excuse to push it as far as we want , at least id soft keeps quiet about doom instead of coming up with bullshit excuses. Maybe they might release TF2 before HL2 the way things are going.
Click to expand...

why does it matter? are you not going to buy it if they dont provide a valid excuse and a accurate release date? when it comes out your still going to buy it no matter what, so stop complaining.
 
Originally posted by m4rine
why does it matter? are you not going to buy it if they dont provide a valid excuse and a accurate release date? when it comes out your still going to buy it no matter what, so stop complaining.
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Yeah, I'm going to buy it. But I don't like being treated like a child. If it's delayed, give a valid reason and I'll be happy. Valid reason? How bout "it's not done."

I like how 2/3rds of the posts in the thread are about how shitty a thread it is. I feel like I should win a prize or something.
 
Originally posted by T-Minus10
But I don't like being treated like a child. If it's delayed, give a valid reason and I'll be happy. Valid reason? How bout "it's not done."
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Call me Captain Obvious, but the fact that the game is delayed... doesn't that automatically mean "it's not done"? Does the developer have to come out and state the obvious?
 
Valve doesn't give a flying fuck about cheating, the game didn't come out on time because it was nowhere near finished. It was basicly still in an alpha state in september.
 
Originally posted by Mar8985
http://ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/gay16.jpg
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ebaum? are you retarded? All they do is steal images from other forums and watermark them as their own.
 
Originally posted by T-Minus10
Yeah, I'm going to buy it. But I don't like being treated like a child. If it's delayed, give a valid reason and I'll be happy. Valid reason? How bout "it's not done."

I like how 2/3rds of the posts in the thread are about how shitty a thread it is. I feel like I should win a prize or something.
Click to expand...

I am gonna have to suggest that guys like you should mabey go out and get a girl or something.

Its just a fuckin video game for christs sake. I am sure you are heart broken, and you feel cheated and also feel like valve has hurt you by treating you like a child, theres a bit more to life then the drama of a video game company.
 
Originally posted by Big Worm
I am gonna have to suggest that guys like you should mabey go out and get a girl or something.

Its just a fuckin video game for christs sake. I am sure you are heart broken, and you feel cheated and also feel like valve has hurt you by treating you like a child, theres a bit more to life then the drama of a video game company.
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I agree
 
just a tidbit to discuss ..a' la' forum ..if you dont want to talk about it ..hey great.

mosie along then, nothing to see here.

I agree tho ..a company should be straightforward with the public. It seems that dishonesty of anykind usually has a way of biting you in the bootie down the road at some point.
 
In all reality, I don't really care if Valve is lieing. As long as the day comes when HL2 comes out, and I can enjoy it I have no other problems. They can lie about their current progress, release dates, etc, I don't really care. I have a lot of problems to worry about in REAL LIFE than to worry about some gaming company. :rolleyes:
 
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