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Intel's 65nm

i'm going to build a computer with a CPU that consumes as little power as possible and was thinking of holding out for this, but its Q1 2006 and i need it end of end of 2005 so i'm just going to get a Sempron and undervolt. Hopefully passive cooling ;)

i'm looking for < 30 W on the cpu and get better performance than a XP 2400+ - a Sempron 3300 90nm surely will be good for this right - after undervolting?
 
perplex said:
i'm going to build a computer with a CPU that consumes as little power as possible and was thinking of holding out for this, but its Q1 2006 and i need it end of end of 2005 so i'm just going to get a Sempron and undervolt. Hopefully passive cooling ;)

i'm looking for < 30 W on the cpu and get better performance than a XP 2400+ - a Sempron 3300 90nm surely will be good for this right - after undervolting?
Click to expand...

Bah on the Sempron, I'd just as soon get a Turion if that's the case. They'll not be that expensive since they are NOT the Centrino killer folks thought the would be ( I don't know why folks would think that LOL). Their saving grace is 64bit support. Yet they'd kill a Sempron, well, except for the price.

My favorite nameless VAR says processor cuts have been moved to the end of July and might be smaller than planned as Geeks are Buying everything, well, except RAM that is.

Donnie27
 
perplex said:
have you seen the prices of Turion? its ridiculous.
Click to expand...

No, give me a list please? I only looked at the whole notebooks from 3 places and they were slightly cheaper than the Centrino notebooks.

Donnie27
 
perplex said:
have you seen the prices of Turion? its ridiculous.
Click to expand...

It's not really all that bad. If you look at the price of the top end PM, it's actually higher than the top Turion. Now, that makes sense: the top PM is a little nicer than the top end Turion. But to say that the price of the Turion is "ridiculous" is well, ridiculous.
 
not when your building a computer for web browsing and playing music, and not trying to beat FX57
 
Gate Length: 35nm, Vdd=1.0V

IBM/AMD=1.14mA NMOS @ 200uA Ioff
PMOS=0.65mA @ 200uA Ioff

Intel NMOS=1.15mA @ 100uA Ioff
PMOS=0.67 @ 100uA Ioff

Translation : Intel's 65nm process is very healty and from the above figures ( if true ) Intel will have a massive static advantage since their transistors will be 2x less leaky then IBM/AMD at the same performance.

Drain leakage current is . the current that still flows when the transistor is fully turned off. A good process has both high drive and a high ratio of max on-current to off-current.

For the IBM/AMD the on/off ratio is:

1.14 mA/200 nA = 1140 uA/0.2 uA = 5700:1

For the Intel the on/off ratio is:

1.15 mA/100 nA = 1150 uA/0.1 uA = 11,500:1

Or to put it simply IBM/AMDs 65nm sucks badly.
 
visaris said:
It's not really all that bad. If you look at the price of the top end PM, it's actually higher than the top Turion. Now, that makes sense: the top PM is a little nicer than the top end Turion. But to say that the price of the Turion is "ridiculous" is well, ridiculous.
Click to expand...

No, he's right $659 and the PM is about $100 cheaper. No wonder more folks read the AMD side of the forum. Pentium M 765 $560

http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=turion64&page=1

GamePC said:
Like all members of the Athlon64 family, the Turion64 features an integrated DDR-400 memory controller embedded in the core itself. Unlike newer Athlon64 processors though, which feature dual channel DDR-400 controllers, the Turion64 still utilizes a single channel DDR-400 controller, limiting the peak memory bandwidth of these processors to 3.2 GB/s. The integrated memory controller allows for lower latency memory access compared to Intel's Pentium-M designs, and also allows for one less power draining source. 1600MHz HT link, not 2000MHz
Click to expand...

Then many times, the PM running at only 1.6GHz was faster than the 2GHz Turion, geesh! What top model? Even when it was as fast, the difference was moot.

Donnie27
 
perplex said:
With < 65nm; passive cooling will once again rule the galaxy.
Click to expand...

That depends on the transistor count and I'm not just talking about cache. Just think, these tiny chips will have smaller surface area in contact with the heatsink as well.

Donnie27
 
Is the 820 D still better than the Yonah Dual Core x20 / 1.66 GHz / FSB667 / Cache L2 2M => $24 or Yonah Single Core / 1.66 GHz / FSB667 / Cache L2 2M => $209?
 
Glow said:
Is the 820 D still better than the Yonah Dual Core x20 / 1.66 GHz / FSB667 / Cache L2 2M => $24 or Yonah Single Core / 1.66 GHz / FSB667 / Cache L2 2M => $209?
Click to expand...

We'll know when Yonah ships and that's it=P Anything else is just speculation.

Donnie27
 
i'm getting quite excited about 2006 and onwards. just think... < 65nm and quadcore and More and hopefully less and less power consumption ;) AND 64 bit... AND applications will actually start using it all slowly
 
SSE4 said:
Shh... We don't speak common sense here. He must only speak in a biased manner but act appalled when someone catches him.
Click to expand...

Wow has the intel forum gone downhill since I've been here. :(

Here's hoping Intel can start making good processors again so there's more than just the fan boys here.
 
So Yonahs compared to the Pentium Ds the difference is 1mb more cahce, lower voltage and less heat? Is there anything else I am missing?
 
Glow said:
So Yonahs compared to the Pentium Ds the difference is 1mb more cahce, lower voltage and less heat? Is there anything else I am missing?
Click to expand...

Yonah is sort of a Super P3 that rides a P4 BUS. It has fewer Stages (pipelines), lower latency, less dependant on SIMDs and a much more advanced power savings. It can go can change its Mulitplier all the way down to 600MHz to sip power. It even makes an integrated memory controller look like a waste of time.

Short pipelined processors are ideal for games, branchy and or non-streaming type apps. They're not so good when it comes to multi-tasking and streaming. Dothan pretty much get's its ass handed to it when Multitasking or Audio and Video work. Feed a P4 SIMD optimizations with apps like Premiere Pro 7 and 3GHz P4 runs this apps faster than an FX-55 as if its clock for clock.

Almost NO games have SSE2 support. Saying it doesn't work for games is misleading too since Incoming Forces II used it to great affect LOL! Never see IF-II tested? Now you know why LOL!

What Yonah will do once it makes it to the Desktop (no matter what the name is changed to), is to have its FSB moved up to 800 then later 1066MHz FSB. That puts the processor bandwidth at 6.4 and 8.4GB just like current P4s. This will have a similar affect to what happens with the Athlon-X2. The overall affect is to double total pipelines and give it better multitasking, streaming and etc.. performance.

Donnie27
 
Well, I just found out that Presler would be using the NetBurst architecture. :mad: It looks like Intel is only performing a die shrink. Oh well, at least the chips will run cooler and consume less power. :mad: Why doesn't Intel just move the memory controller on the processor die just like AMD did?
 
i think they are but after Presler. i'm more interested in Yonah. i'm now into the low power CPU scene :rolleyes: because i dont game anymore :p
 
I guess it's not worth the trouble to move the memory controller into the P4 now. It will be obsolete soon.
I just hope that they will go down that road with their next CPU. I haven't heard anything about that either way.
 
it was in theinquirer and other news sites a few days ago that they are going to integrate a memory controller. i think it said something about year 2007.
 
perplex said:
it was in theinquirer and other news sites a few days ago that they are going to integrate a memory controller. i think it said something about year 2007.
Click to expand...

I saw that too, it said for Servers Furst, right? But we don't need some people trying to change history. EV6 and the IMC are Alpha firsts, AMD copies. Intel owns all of Alpha's IP.

Donnie27
 
does anyone think its likely for 65nm to appear in Q4? or do you think only from Q1 2006 (or later :confused: ) ? because i think it was originally planned for release in Q4 2005 sometime! :confused: :rolleyes: :confused:
 
perplex said:
does anyone think its likely for 65nm to appear in Q4? or do you think only from Q1 2006 (or later :confused: ) ? because i think it was originally planned for release in Q4 2005 sometime! :confused: :rolleyes: :confused:
Click to expand...

I only heard of Yonah in 05, everything else was planned for Q1/Q2 06. Thanks to AMD keeping prices Sky high, Intel is in no hurry to get their stuff out there. Competition is a two away street.

Donnie27
 
I think it's interesting how many of us are really looking forward to heavy power saving machines. When I'm using my computer for business, I frequently have it idling while I read a website or go to a meeting etc. I would love for it to gear down in those times. The sooner they can make these chips available the better.
 
yeh, the main reason for me is for quietness, so passive cooling for example :rolleyes: i'm sick of this computer i've had for about 5 years, it's so loud
 
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