Innocent man's PC seized because of some hacker?

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Benny Blanco

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A few years ago I built a PC for a friend of mine to replace his Celeron-500 dinosaur. 2 years ago he got FiOS triple play or something, which comes with a bunch of funky equipment, and also a wireless router. I didn't even know it had wireless because the router was behind the desk, and I never once saw it.

2 days ago he calls me as 3 detectives are in his home seizing his computer, asking me if the "wireless was locked." I'm like "WHAT wireless?"

Apparently his IP address was recorded by some online vendor with a fraudulent credit card transaction in December for $2,000 worth of goods. The detectives took the computer and the external HDD which had backups of the PC. They gave him a receipt, but apparently there's no telling if/when he'll get it back.

I went there today and logged into the router with a laptop. It had only WEP enabled. NO other security measures were enabled at all, despite having the ability for WPA, WPA2, MAC filtering, SSID broadcast disable, and even wireless radio disable. The computer that was seized was a desktop with a hard wire LAN connection, so disabling the wireless would have been the right thing to do.

This is in NYC, the Bronx to be exact. Does anyone have any advice or experience with this? What can we expect?

Should he sue VERIZON for setting him up with an UNsecured ULTRA-fast wireless network? Besides the value of the computer, there is pretty important data on there (he is an assistant Pastor of a local church).
 
Sue Verizon? What the hell for? Why would they be liable for all this? Just shows how sue-happy this country is. They alone are responsible for the integrity of their network. They have nothing to worry about however...they're just going to be out of their computer for quite some time.
 
I'm not talking about suing for millions here. Maybe the value of the seized computer, or the value of the computer he had to buy today to continue his work, or maybe for the inconvenience of lost data/access to his data? (They took his computer AND his backup HDD)

Listen, a verizon FiOS technician came to their home, installed the whole FIOS shebang (TV, internet, phone). The router was obviously set up with WEP encryption, which has been known to be a hackable, and therefore almost useless security measure for years. It seems VERY irresponsible to me, and now my friend is paying a BIG price for it.

As far as I'm concerned, the verizon tech did a half-assed job. Is it reasonable to expect all customers to know how to secure a wireless network?? My friend didn't even know there WAS a wireless capability to begin with.
 
It isn't Verizon's job to ensure that your network is secure. Had they installed the router without even WEP enabled, that would have been a successful job because they were there to get the internet/tv/etc working. It's like trying to sue bittorrent because you got caught downloading something illegal and were unaware of the fact that what you did was illegal. You're still liable in the end. It's probably all in the fine print that they would have signed off on when the work was completed anyway, which would presumably relieve Verizon of any and all liabilities. I honestly don't think there is much they can do, but at least they don't have any legal consequences to worry about as the FBI won't find anything incriminating on their computer.
 
I guess to me, "premium" installation includes proper configuration of wireless security. Worry-free my ass!

Verizon Worry-Free Guarantee:

* NO TERM CONTRACT
* Premium installation: flexible dates & in-home demonstration
* Follow-up satisfaction call
Click to expand...

Maybe you are right that they're not responsible. After browsing their website a little more, I see that they offer security and network monitoring for only $5.99 extra per month.
 
As unfortunate as the situation is, being the large company that it is, Verizon has presumably gone to great lengths to legally cover their ass.
 
log into the router see if anyone else is currently connected... if so... take note of any type of useable info (computer name is probably all you will get) call police let them know

if your friend didnt do anything he shouldnt be worried about whats gonna happen... just gonna be inconvenienced for a little bit...
 
Blue Fox said:
As unfortunate as the situation is, being the large company that it is, Verizon has presumably gone to great lengths to legally cover their ass.
Click to expand...

You're right about your post. Ignorance is certainly never bliss. The Verizon tech did his job to specification and in most cases that's all that matters. Internet functionality & basic security were ensured.

And hell yes, Verizon has gone to lengths, as with most companies their size would to protect themselves legally.
Your friend hires an attorney, they have a nice team of them on staff. Case will be dismissed in a few moments.

If he has nothing to hide, let the detectives do their job. Follow up with them, be polite and try to help them in anyway possible. Be sure to note, and note everything they say in regards to the case and his computer/external HDD.

Also, he should note all the events that transpired leading up to the removal of the computer from his possession. Warrant to enter/remove the PC? Was care taken to ensure that their was no damage, etc.
 
Tell him to willingly bring in the router for them to inspect as well.
 
No, he should sue you.
* Any useful evidence that might have proven his innocence (such as date/time/ip of last login to the router) could now be destroyed.
* If the evidence is still there, it's now less valuable because a prosecutor can claim that his friend the computer whiz helped to cover his tracks.

Furthermore, have you ever considered that he did do it, and he asked you to take a look at his router for good reason? I mean, when you find the murder weapon, would it occur to you to go ahead and ask the local gun nut to take a look at it?

Tell him to willingly bring in the router for them to inspect as well.
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Uhh...isn't a prosecutor who withheld exculpatory evidence a popular TV pundit?

The thing he needs to do and you need to do is so obvious that it needn't be stated.
 
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Thanks for the helpful replies. I guess snide comments are the order of the day today, so thanks for those too. I'll tell my friend to sue my ass instead for being a shitty friend who helps old people get hacked lol

The router had an option for logging events of some kind, but of course that option was not enabled either. I'll talk to him about a police report and also about giving the router, if we can get a replacement in the meantime that is.

thefreeaccount said:
The thing he needs to do and you need to do is so obvious that it needn't be stated.
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Dude, you totally sound like you're in high school. Learn to have some tact, it'll help you in the long run.
 
Benny Blanco said:
Thanks for the helpful replies. I guess snide comments are the order of the day today, so thanks for those too. I'll tell my friend to sue my ass instead for being a shitty friend who helps old people get hacked lol

The router had an option for logging events of some kind, but of course that option was not enabled either. I'll talk to him about a police report and also about giving the router, if we can get a replacement in the meantime that is.


Dude, you totally sound like you're in high school. Learn to have some tact, it'll help you in the long run.
Click to expand...

Don't let the noobies get to you. They're rampant lately. Obviously your friend should sue everyone, including himself :p

Follow up with the detectives, tell them what you found out about the wireless, and I'm sure you'll be getting the computer back as long as the hacker didn't place incriminating things on the computer.

In the end there isn't much you can do. It's a grey area in between your friend knowing nothing about computers and Verizon not telling him anything about the wireless. In the end, it's a wash and you're just wasting your time if you think you're going to get anywhere trying to sue somebody or collect damages.

 
thanks ciggwin and again, thanks to the other respectable and helpful responders!

We thought about telling the DT's about the wireless. They actually determined that the "wireless was locked" because their technology specialist said he could not access it via his PDA/stupidphone. I'm afraid to tell him to give them the router because somehow I doubt Verizon will provide an interim replacement. There IS a record of attached PC's like ATHERTON above said, and there is one record of an attached device that is NOT my friend's computer. It might very well be the detective's smartphone though. It is a username and a MAC address.
 
Benny Blanco said:
thanks ciggwin and again, thanks to the other respectable and helpful responders!

We thought about telling the DT's about the wireless. They actually determined that the "wireless was locked" because their technology specialist said he could not access it via his PDA/stupidphone. I'm afraid to tell him to give them the router because somehow I doubt Verizon will provide an interim replacement. There IS a record of attached PC's like ATHERTON above said, and there is one record of an attached device that is NOT my friend's computer. It might very well be the detective's smartphone though. It is a username and a MAC address.
Click to expand...

I would follow up with them with that information as well as tell them how the wireless was secured (WEP) and that it can be cracked easily in under a minute. It can't hurt to call - I'm sure they left you with a card.

 
Dude, you totally sound like you're in high school. Learn to have some tact, it'll help you in the long run.
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Not sure how to respond - it's just not a joke to me. You've already harmed the case for your friend's innocence by failing to follow the most basic of data forensics procedures (even if you think you qualify as some kind of independent 3rd party, why didn't you at least make a copy of the flash before logging in?), by talking to the police, and by posting on this forum.

Don't talk to the police. Talking to the police is the same thing as talking to the prosecutor. Even if the information you provide helps prove your friend's innocence, your friend's laywer will have to fight tooth and nail to get it during discovery - if he's good. If he's not good...well, you don't get a second trial because your laywer made a poor tactical decision.

If you care about your friend, stop. Just stop talking, stop posting, stop playing around with his router, and get him a decent laywer. You aren't helping. You are screwing him.

Get a lawyer. Please.
 
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thefreeaccount said:
You've already harmed the case for your friend's innocence by failing to follow the most basic of data forensics procedures (Why didn't you at least make a copy of the flash before logging in?), by talking to the police, and by posting on this forum.
Click to expand...

Seriously, just shut up. You obviously offer no help whatsoever. He came here for help and all you can do is talk down to him by telling him things you think he should have known to do. You want him to image the flash on a wireless router? Seriously? How is he supposed to do that? You want him to do a proper forensic examination? Again, seriously? What for? It's not like him properly investigating his own device is going to allow him to present the evidence in court. The police themselves screwed up the seizure by not properly taking the correct devices.

Benny, as much as I dislike admitting it, freeaccount did have one correct piece of advice, tell your friend to get a lawyer. You investigating will not provide any benefit. A lawyer will be able to tell you what your best options are. He will be able to advise if, handing over the AP/Router would be in your friends best interest.
 
No legal advice but your friend should plan on buying new hardware.

We had a customer write a fraudulent check for a laptop. We reported it when it bounced. The woman had bounced checks all over town and the cops found her relatively quickly. By the time we got the laptop back we had long since written it off and forgotten about it. It took about 2 years for all the legal mumbo jumbo to get wrapped up and them to release the evidence back to us.
 
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The best advice one can give you is to not take legal advice from an online forum. Other than that; No one is truly innocent.
 
Thanks again everyone. Yea, being retired and on a fixed income, he would prefer to avoid hiring a lawyer.

He did pick up a laptop yesterday, since there's no telling when he'll get the computer back.
 
Wow that sucks.

I do find the US takes computer crime WAY too seriously compared to other more serious crimes like rape and murder. Kinda sucks that they can just barge in your house like that and take your stuff just because your IP matched with something. They have no clue how DHCP works and make very big assumptions.
 
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