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Im confused.

H

Hippee921

n00b
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
60
As a long time builder of PC's I've understood the reason to watercooling.

But now its not as much. With advancements in CPU coolers and Fans in both cooling and noise. Heck some Air coolers are better then watercooling better temps and noise.

Sooo Why are we watercooling again?
 
Watercooling is a hobby. You don't see major benefits from it, unless you're running tri/quad SLI or CrossFire.
 
On 130W TDP cpu's it does help out a pretty decent amount. 95W and less, not as much, especially since the chips can be stable up to 80-90c these days.
 
Well, from what I can see the deference between a H100 WC setup and Noctura NH-D14 is maybe 3c on a 125w? And the Noctura is quieter by 4db (which is nothing i know). but still it just doesn't make sense to me why people still deal with and spend the extra money for something that today has no use besides maybe looking cool.

(I know, why do people buy 100k$ cars...its not to get from A to b in. I get it)
 
Hippee921 said:
Well, from what I can see the deference between a H100 WC setup and Noctura NH-D14 is maybe 3c on a 125w? And the Noctura is quieter by 4db (which is nothing i know). but still it just doesn't make sense to me why people still deal with and spend the extra money for something that today has no use besides maybe looking cool.

(I know, why do people buy 100k$ cars...its not to get from A to b in. I get it)
Click to expand...

Closed loop WC units are completely different than custom configurations.


But you're right, the cost premium on units like the Corsair H series is hard to justify.
 
Hippee921 said:
Heck some Air coolers are better then watercooling better temps and noise.
Click to expand...

See below.

Melon said:
Closed loop WC units are completely different than custom configurations.
Click to expand...

Most people do not think of the closed loop systems as "water cooling" in the normal term. A real proper water cooling system will without a doubt beat a air cooler in terms of noise and temps, no question. The difference is the larger cost to get into water cooling, but often times when going to a new system, all you need are new blocks (if that) not a whole new setup, while you might be dropping 80-100 each new socket for an air cooler. They can also cool more than just a CPU, it can also be a space thing, not all large tower coolers will fit in a smaller case, yet has room for a rad. Also, air coolers are not very friendly to SLI/xfire for GPU's, they are often massive and take up extra PCIe slots as well as dumping the heat into the case, while waterblocks on GPU's are often single slot solutions.

There are many reasons to get into water cooling, and if you have to ask, you probably don't need it.
 
Well for myself I'm just trying to justify the cost of it really. I do see the benefits of it as far as dumping the hot air back into the rest of the case(air) and removing the hot air from the case(water) so the rest of the components can breathe.

But inst it true that you cant run water cooling anything cooler then room temperature due to condensation. and if this is the case really what i said above is really the only benefit from it since you'll never be able to get below 23c.

Also I do understand the Size thing .

More or less I'm playing devils advocate here. My wife is a smart cookie and she'll figure it out pretty quick and I myself have to be able to combat these objections.

Also whats the difference between a closed loop system and your so-called Real Proper water cooling? Maybe just a link? (No offence I've always known all water systems to be closed loops.)
 
No I do understand that it is a hobby my wife wouldn't lol. so I'm trying to come at her with more knowledge.
 
Melon said:
Closed loop WC units are completely different than custom configurations.

But you're right, the cost premium on units like the Corsair H series is hard to justify.
Click to expand...

The corsair series are great, but as mentioned above, they're nowhere near the performance of a custom loop. The advantage of them really lies in the fact that chips these days can get pretty close to topping out without very much effort - so custom loops for a cpu alone don't bring too terribly much to the table.

Melon said:
Watercooling is a hobby. You don't see major benefits from it, unless you're running tri/quad SLI or CrossFire.
Click to expand...

This. Custom loops can rack up in cost VERY quickly (see compression fittings alone), and you do it b/c you want to and its a fun project, not necessarily because you need to. That said, the cpu is probably the least benefitted component in a custom loop - whereas a few high heat-producing gpu's will see some nice temp drops (as well as quieter performance) from some FCB's slapped on them.
 
Hippee921 said:
No I do understand that it is a hobby my wife wouldn't lol. so I'm trying to come at her with more knowledge.
Click to expand...

If you can justify at least a couple high end gpu's, it gets easier to justify running a loop. Otherwise, the cost of wc simply doesn't yield much for you, as the added cost of wc could have probably given better components to start with which would be a higher marginal return.

That, or you're able to happily say that you're doing it simply because you want to tinker with wc for the sake of doing it, as opposed to the best performance gains/$ - in which case, enjoy =)
 
Air cooling will never be able to match what WCing can do, you can have large or many rads in a system, that gives you massive surface area for cooling, which can mean lower speed fans or none at all, so noise can be a huge reason. It's not about getting under ambient temps, water cooling depends on your goals, quiet or massive heat removal or both. The all in one closed loops are self contained like the H line coolers, when you buy them, they are ready to install put together with fluid inside, normal water cooling is built, its like comparing a boxed PC from bestbuy vs a custom built computer, you can't really compare them. A WCed system is built part by part, there are a few "bundles" on the market that includes everything to get started though.

If you are doing this just because you want it, and are trying to find something to convince the wife to let you get it, well there is not much point, in most cases WCing is not something you need. Unless your system is screaming loud and it annoys her or the like, you are SOL.
 
BlueFireIce said:
If you are doing this just because you want it, and are trying to find something to convince the wife to let you get it, well there is not much point, in most cases WCing is not something you need. Unless your system is screaming loud and it annoys her or the like, you are SOL.
Click to expand...

Exactly. You can't justify a hobby with anything besides the fact that you are interested in it. How did you justify being able to spend hundreds of dollars on a gaming PC? It's a hobby! :p
 
Cruiza said:
Exactly. You can't justify a hobby with anything besides the fact that you are interested in it. How did you justify being able to spend hundreds of dollars on a gaming PC? It's a hobby! :p
Click to expand...

lol This is True.

All in all a lot of great responses and Thank you for that.

I've been OC'ing things since I can remember (My first build when I was 7 was a PII-450 OC'd to 525mhz =D ) The problem that I have right now is the Location of the tower itself. It is sitting under a desk in a corner area. So the air flow is very restricted especially when someone is sitting there. You can see what I am running in my Sig and its in an older Raidmax case (Cheap but looks cool) running 3 80mm fans (front side back) and its doing ok but i did have to throttle my CPU back to 3.7 due to memory dumps and heat. So I was thinking of WC'ing it or getting some nice Silent high CFM and I was trying to figure out where to spend the money at.

And now Im thinking of getting another 6870 since they are DIRT cheap but then I would deffinatly go with WCing but thats alot of money then...

Ugh. Computers...Such a Love Hate Relationship.

Again thanks for the good comments =D
 
What kind of temps are you getting CPU/GPU? What kind of cooler are you using now? With such an old case WCing might not even be that good of an idea as not much reason to dump the money for a setup only to get 80mm rads, a case upgrade might be a better option with a better air cooler. If the case is hidden, is there a way to mount fans in the desk or around the restricted area to improve airflow? Or move the case all together?

For a setup you will be looking at 250+, add in a few GPU's and that price can climb fast.
 
Moving the tower is a no go or I would have already.

New case is most likely first. Corsair White 500R.

My GPU can get pretty dang warm right around 70c.
My CPU around 45-50c? its been a little while since I checked.

But I'm worried about the wonderful summer months in Michigan. Last year we had almost constant 90-100f temps and I do run the Air if needed but i still keep the house Warmer (77ish) for cost savings.

When I get home ill see if i can get some pictures of the area\case.

I was thinking of the Hyper 212. Cheap and solid performance.
 
Nothing besides food, shelter and the means to get them are necessary. Just like buying colored fans, a cool looking case, or other non-essential components for cosmetics, you install a custom liquid cooling loop because you want a superior system that makes other systems running air look like your Grammy's computer. You build a liquid cooled PC because it makes your nerd boner throb. As far as the wife goes, mine doesn't care just as long as we can put the same amount of money into savings each month.

I myself am in the middle of a new build including a custom paint job and a water loop. We do it because we love to.
 
Having WC-ed 2 systems for close to 10 years I think my main motivation is maintenance as in cleaning. Translating, I have 2 systems (currently i7-990X OC-ed to 4.6 GHz) that have been upgraded/rebuilt 3 times over all that time. At this point I have figured out the magic recipe for the coolant is KISS so that the loop does not need to be completely disassembled every year ... actually my systems stay together until it is time for major system upgrade such as new CPU or especially the motherboard.

BUT that is not the point I want to make. It is the unavoidable routine maintenance in cleaning the lint & dirt out of the cooling fins of the HSF sitting on top of the CPU versus a radiator mounted on the back of the case. The pile of fins + fan sitting on top of the CPU is substantially more time consuming & difficult to clean than the radiator. The path thru those fin arrays is much longer than it is for the radiator in any WC-ed system.

Ergo ... routine maintenance for the WC radiator are blasts of compressed air. In the last re-builds I stepped up the cooling with push pull fans with filters. Jury is still out as to whether the filters are worth while or not versus just blasting air thru everything.

I also have 2 air cooled systems that are tolerable but get their maintenance half-assed (just a blow out) when get around to them. I think they are not OC-ed at the moment & definitely cannot tolerate OC in warm weather. They each have the big Russian apartment building looking heatsinks on them ... Noctua. They work great when shiny new & clean but degrade over time. Something the reviewers never get to. They have been a complete cleaning PITA especially when I tried push pull fans on them for a few months.
 
Wow thank you so much for bringing this to my attention! I did not think about this at all! My computer sits close to the ground and gets dusty rather fast.

Between the noice and the dust factor (My wife is always cleaning the electronics in fear of dust insulation) I be talking with her about a new case\ WC setup sooner then later.

Thank you!
 
Well some cases are just better at keeping out dust. I lived in a pretty moderate/high dust area here in South Dakota, and since I switched to the Raven, my case has been clean. I have to clean the filters roughly every other month, but my rig is as clean today as it was when I assembled it almost. The intake fans are a little lighter from dust, but I don't have any on the components.
I also like the AiO water cooler because it dumps nearly all of the heat outside of the case, so my ambient case temps are pretty good too.
 
ob1 said:
Well some cases are just better at keeping out dust. I lived in a pretty moderate/high dust area here in South Dakota, and since I switched to the Raven, my case has been clean. I have to clean the filters roughly every other month, but my rig is as clean today as it was when I assembled it almost. The intake fans are a little lighter from dust, but I don't have any on the components.
I also like the AiO water cooler because it dumps nearly all of the heat outside of the case, so my ambient case temps are pretty good too.
Click to expand...

I have a raven also, not been to much trouble, however, the biggest impact I have seen was I spent a few bucks and got a washable AC filter, pretty thick thing, has cut down ALLOT of dust everywhere and my case filters don't even start to show buildup for 3 months+.
 
Makes my computer jizztastic! Also, I see a lot more potential when I get a watercooled gpu. air cooled gpus have a very loud load noise with also high temps

My h70 managed to get to boiling point with less than my current oc which doesnt even hit 80deg now.
 
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