Im a noobie to Water Cooling...

M

|MaguS|

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jun 6, 2004
Messages
1,934
Im thinking about going Water Cooling, but have no real knowledge on brands and quality of the products. I try to read up on it all as much as possible but I still have many douts and questions.

I was wondering if anyone could help me build a nice WC set up for an AMD64 3200, and with the possiblities to go 939 socket in the future. I have a budget of $200 set aside for it once I can figure out what I want.

Im confident in my abilties to piece the set up together so an all in one solution isn't needed, just don't know what parts are better then others... don't wana end up buying a part and next thing you know my PC is an aquarium... :p

Here is a pic of my current case for sizing matters. Im planning on a new case in the future so adding one to the set up would help. ;)
DSCF0003.JPG


Appreciate all the help I can get. Thanks in advance. :D
 
you are willing to mod the case correct? because youll need to ;)

I recommend

block: dangerden RBX
pump: either Eheim 1250 or Hydor L30
rad: the double heatercore at Dangerden OR if youre feeling cheap, get a bonneville heatercore from autozone and barb it yourself. not difficult, just takes time to do.
res: the clear cylinder that mounts in a 80mm fan spot
tubing: anything thats 1/2" ID with 1/8" walls.
+ clamps, water wetter, distilled water




this is assuming you just want to cool the proc. the northbridge on A64's doesnt get hot enough to warrent it i believe (since the memory controller is on the chip), video card is the only other thing I can think of.
 
I will get a new case if need be :)

Is distilled water needed? Any advantage to using it rather then normal sink water? Are there products I can add to the water to aid in the cooling? And how do I get it to glow like I have seen on some peoples setup?

On the Radiators, Is a fan needed? I see fans on them often but the Double Heatcore at Dangerden does not have one.

Also I am looking to cool my Videocard so what would be a good block for it?
 
i agree with kronchev
also on another note
do not get a PRE-Built Kit like a koolence...they suck really bad
 
|MaguS| said:
I will get a new case if need be :)

Is distilled water needed? Any advantage to using it rather then normal sink water? Are there products I can add to the water to aid in the cooling? And how do I get it to glow like I have seen on some peoples setup?
Click to expand...

distilled water is if you dont want to create a lake of algea in your computer and have mineral buildups. so yes its needed :) waterwetter aids in the cooling by helping water absorb heat easier. you can get UV dye, thats what people use. a few drops and youre glowin'

On the Radiators, Is a fan needed? I see fans on them often but the Double Heatcore at Dangerden does not have one.
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absolutly. you need to buy the fans separatly at DD

Also I am looking to cool my Videocard so what would be a good block for it?
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ok i cant answer that since ive never cooled mine. the maze4 GPU block would probabily work well, i havent heard of anything that blows it away.
 
[RIP]Zeus said:
i agree with kronchev
also on another note
do not get a PRE-Built Kit like a koolence...they suck really bad
Click to expand...

So I have read/heard. Main reason im seeing assistance in making my own setup. Don't wana end up with crap. ^_^
 
Yeah, for the most part pre-builts are not as good as DIY if you are looking for performance. Less hassle, etc, is a different story. Anyway, a site with a LOT of information about what blocks to choose, pumps, etc. is www.procooling.com. Those guys really know their stuff there, and the people in the forums are very knowledgable as well (not that we're not here, but, y'know... another resource always helps!).

I, myself, prefer 12V pumps to 120V ones like the eheim and hydor that kronchev recommended. There are some very very small 12V pumps out there (like Danger Den's 12V Laing D4 pump they sell), with some great statistics on it. However, 12V pumps tend to cost a bit more than 120V ones do, so you definitely pay the price there. But, if you're willing to fork out the dough, it can be worth it, in my opinion. So, if you decide to get a 12V pump, you can just plug it right into a 4 pin molex connector on your power supply, so it turns on and off with your computer. 120V ones you would either have to plug into a wall socket and just leave it on, or make/buy a relay kit to make it turn on and off with your computer. Its another option to think about, at any rate. :)
 
Hey mag. If you want to go the custom route i might be able to get my dad to make you a block ;D

's what i'm using... maybe i'll post some pics at EGBT if i ever get around to it...
 
diredesire said:
Hey mag. If you want to go the custom route i might be able to get my dad to make you a block ;D

's what i'm using... maybe i'll post some pics at EGBT if i ever get around to it...
Click to expand...

Now here is a true DIY person....heheh
 
i'm a noob to water cooling also

how much $ do you guys say it would take to build a decent water cooling setup?
 
For a decent new system like the one Kronchev posted:

block: About $40 for a good one
pump: from $15 to $60 for your average pumps
rad: DIY, $20, premade, $30 to $120
res: Cheap, $20 or $30
tubing: $1 or $2 a foot for the good stuff
+ clamps, water wetter, distilled water - Clamps, maybe $5, WW, $5? Distilled, $2

Basically, you can do it for 140 bucks and have a pretty good kit, with a DIY radiator and a cheaper pump (like the MaxiJet that I have, cheap, performs very well, reliable), and a RBX block. If you want top of the line, it's gonna be more like $250 or more. Keep in mind, that $140 system will still be quiet and perform quite well.
 
what sort of temps do you think you could get for 150? i mean, from the reviews i read, water cooling really isn't any better then air cooling.

i've got a thermalright slk800u on my athlon 1700 and full load temps never go over 35-36C. of course, now that its summer time its closer to 40C, but still. i only paid 50 bucks for it, water cooling is 100 bucks more!
 
It really depends on what your setup is, and every set up is different. If you have those temperatures right now and you're at the clocks you want then stick with air cooling. There are times to use either one, and you might just be in the situation in which air works better. That said, if you want to overclock, water might help.
 
well thats the thing, i've got the 1700 oc'd to 2400, so i guess with my current setup air cooling will work

thanks for the help tho :)
 
if you are going to do a 1/2 setup, go with a swiftech mcp600. it blows all the other pumps, ie...ehiem, hydor, etc.... out of the whater... no pun intended :p!!!
 
jackbauer said:
if you are going to do a 1/2 setup, go with a swiftech mcp600. it blows all the other pumps, ie...ehiem, hydor, etc.... out of the whater... no pun intended :p!!!
Click to expand...


Danger Den's 12V pump actually has a better PQ curve than that swiftec one does. Its a bit more powerful... but a bit louder too. Either way, they are both good pumps. Im just absolutely in love with my DD Laing D4. If you are running multiple blocks, especially with one thats really restrictive like a White Water or RBX, you're totally going to want a pump like the mcp600 or DD Laing D4.
 
With your rig AMD64(nice setup by the way)U wont be able to OC much with water, for $200 U wont get a good water system anyways. If you want quiet system and OC also, get ZALMAN flower CPU cooler and ZALMAN heatpipe cooler w/fan for vid.card(looks like ATI 9800pro from picture) for like $70+tax. It will looks great through that clear window with some lights...dont U think?

Trust me, I got one...have fun!
 
Im not really looking to OC more then just have a quieter PC. My PC is on always and with its current 7 fans (5 case, 1 cpu and 1 VC) its pretty loud. If I water cool the system I could keep about the same or lower temps with it being alot quieter.

I do have lights on my rig... you just cant see them with the lights on, look at the fans you can see a slight glow. ;)
 
You should get an Eheim 1048 then. That thing is absolutely silent. Great pump too. :)
 
38SpeciaL! said:
With your rig AMD64(nice setup by the way)U wont be able to OC much with water, for $200 U wont get a good water system anyways. If you want quiet system and OC also, get ZALMAN flower CPU cooler and ZALMAN heatpipe cooler w/fan for vid.card(looks like ATI 9800pro from picture) for like $70+tax. It will looks great through that clear window with some lights...dont U think?

Trust me, I got one...have fun!
Click to expand...

uh, if youre spending more than 150 on a really good watercooling setup, youre doing something wrong.
 
So where would you all recommend to pick up the parts for the best price and quality in CS?

Also what do you guys think of the recently reviewed Asetek WaterChill Antarctica Water Cooling Kit on the main page? The review makes it out to be a nice kit... would ya recommend it over a DIY?
 
|MaguS| said:
So where would you all recommend to pick up the parts for the best price and quality in CS?

Also what do you guys think of the recently reviewed Asetek WaterChill Antarctica Water Cooling Kit on the main page? The review makes it out to be a nice kit... would ya recommend it over a DIY?
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i premade kit will never be better than DIY, period. premades are more expensive and perform not as well.
 
kronchev said:
i premade kit will never be better than DIY, period. premades are more expensive and perform not as well.
Click to expand...


I completely agree. DIY will get you the best performance and the cheapest price. As far as where to purchase them... there are many places that sell water cooling stuff. You can buy direct from the manufacturer like at www.dangerden.com or www.dtekcustoms.com, or the numerous resellers out there (www.frozencpu.com or www.cooltechnica.com to name a couple). Check out this thread (OC&C links), and you will find more than enough places to buy equipment at:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=758918
 
This is what I have come up with so far, How does it look?

Danger Den - RBX Block Athlon64, Lucite Top, 1/2" OD High Flow Fittings

Eheim 1048 Pump

Dual 3 1/2 Drive Bay Typhoon Quad Reservoir, No Thanks

Double Heater Core Radiator with Shroud and Mounting Hardware, 1/2 Fittings

Arctic Silver 5

ClearFlex60 Tubing 1/2 Inch ID

Pump Relay Switch Kit

4oz Water Wetter

1oz Blue UV Dye

Total comes to around $215.92 without shipping from dangerden. Hopefully dire can help his fellow clan mate and provide a nice cheap block for my cpu and gpu. ;)
 
|MaguS| said:
This is what I have come up with so far, How does it look?

Danger Den - RBX Block Athlon64, Lucite Top, 1/2" OD High Flow Fittings

Eheim 1048 Pump

Dual 3 1/2 Drive Bay Typhoon Quad Reservoir, No Thanks

Double Heater Core Radiator with Shroud and Mounting Hardware, 1/2 Fittings

Arctic Silver 5

ClearFlex60 Tubing 1/2 Inch ID

Pump Relay Switch Kit

4oz Water Wetter

1oz Blue UV Dye

Total comes to around $215.92 without shipping from dangerden. Hopefully dire can help his fellow clan mate and provide a nice cheap block for my cpu and gpu. ;)
Click to expand...

i strongly dont recommend a bay res, ive heard such bad things about them. also you need some fans there ;) i recommend the evercool fans at 7v but its your call there
 
If you are intent on buying from danger den, just get one of their round reservoirs that mount onto an 80mm fan hole. I've heard nothing but bad news about those bay res'es...

Also, how much tubing were you planning on getting? Make sure you're kind of liberal with how much you buy, just cause its your first time. Too much tubing never hurt anyone...

As far as fans go... whatever you want to buy really. 2 120mm fans that are in your price range and hearing range should be just fine. I'm a panaflo advocate, but like kronchev said, it doesn't really matter that much. As long as you have *something*.


/edit

One more thing. I saw that you might be adding more blocks to your system (gpu). If you are planning on doing that, you might want to look at a more powerful pump than the eheim 1048. Another block adds a *lot* of restriction and would significantly cut into your waterflow with that 1048. Something to think about anyway. :)
 
Thanks guys for all your responces. I will keep looking up info and will continue to post and questions I might have, You all be alot of help.

Now I need to find a nice looking case thats big enough to house the cooling. :)
 
You may have a hard time fitting it in that mid tower... i had/have one just like it, and i moved to a full tower... you can get a nice full tower case for about 49.99 at openlix.com (click on free shipping -> cases) [note: it's HEAVY, but solidly built]


As far as the block, if you find me some mounting specs i can ask my dad, i might be able to hook you up with a GPU block though, you're running a rad 9800 variant, correct? Hit me up on aim, s/n is the same as my forum handle(s). I made a VGA block, but i didn't really like it, i'm probably going to end up modding an old socket A heatsink and calling it good, i might be able to let it go ;D
 
diredesire said:
You may have a hard time fitting it in that mid tower... i had/have one just like it, and i moved to a full tower... you can get a nice full tower case for about 49.99 at openlix.com (click on free shipping -> cases) [note: it's HEAVY, but solidly built]


As far as the block, if you find me some mounting specs i can ask my dad, i might be able to hook you up with a GPU block though, you're running a rad 9800 variant, correct? Hit me up on aim, s/n is the same as my forum handle(s). I made a VGA block, but i didn't really like it, i'm probably going to end up modding an old socket A heatsink and calling it good, i might be able to let it go ;D
Click to expand...

Can't really find a nice Full Tower Case... All the decent ones I see are just Antex rip offs... Hate thoughs. Need a window, wana show it all off ;)
 
Heres what I have and a basic rundown on price. (including shipping)
D-Tek Whitewater CPU block --- $55
Radiator: 4" X 10" B&M oil cooler with threaded outlets --- $30
Pump: MaxiJet 1200 --- $25
20 Feet Clearflex 1/2" ID tubing --- $25 (you can also get tubing at Home Depot for cheaper
GPU Waterblock: DangerDen Maze-4 --- $50
Various Hardware (fittings, barbs, hoseclamps, water additives, Etc.) --- $15
Reservior (Not a necessity but nice to have) I custom built mine:
$12 for Plexiglass, $4 for glue, $3 for fittings

Total: $219
Without the reservior and Vid block: $145
You could get it even cheaper than that if you used less tubing and fewer fittings.
Some DIY guidelines:
For any really good performing waterblock & 1/2" ID tubing, you generally want a pump with somewhere around 300 GPH & at least 5' Head
You can get away with a 250 GPH pump with good results unless your running more than 1 block in your loop. A 10-15% Antifreeze mix with distilled water will insure no problems with galvonic corrosion or alge. don't waste your time with anything less than 1/2" ID tubing in your loop. Oil coolers make goor Rads and offer the best size selection, but Heatercores can be found cheaper and will perform better. (Chevette heatercores and 120MM fans are a perfect match) anything over 375 GPH pump volume hits the point of diminishing returns in any loop.

Oh yeah, here are some usual temps on my system:

AthlonXP 2500+ Barton
MSI KT3 Ultra 2
521mb GEIL Ultra PLatinum memory
Radeon 9800 Pro

Idle Temps:
CPU: 26* C
Board: 27*C

Load temps: (Running COD and Prime95 for 1 hour simultaniously)
CPU: 32* C
Board 28*C

I run my radiator inside a window AC unit and it is quite small for a setup like this. Keep in mind these temps are with my Radeon adding to the water temp. I do not have a thermistor mounted to my GPU as of yet so sorry, no vid temps, but with the Maze-4 GPU block, you can bet GPU temps will be very close to CPU temps.

DSC00055.JPG

DSC00133.JPG
 
I have no clue why everyone is having bad luck with their bay-res units.

I use one, with brass barbs of all things, and even run alcohol as a coolant (worst case scenario), and I still don't have any cracking, and it's been nearly a year now.

The key is to know when to stop tightening, and to know how to properly apply teflon ribbon to your barb's threads.

Maybe the Dangerden ones suck, I dunno. I have an Angeleye bay-res I got from SVC for $20. I even have an extra I keep around for my future projects.
 
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