IDE Cable problem

[JustPyro]

System/mobo are in sig.

To the problem: I have 2 optical drives on IDE 1, and a single 40gig on IDE 2. I boot from the WD sata on Sata 1.

But I have an open ide on channel 2 to run slave with the 40 gig. I bought a new Orion Pro brand rounded 24" ide cable, as the only other IDE cables I have are 18" and too short to run 2 HDDs on the same cable in the Sonata, the distance is just too far.

So I get the cable today, install it on IDE 2, with the extra HDD in slave and the 40gig as master on the channel. I hook the power back up, boot, and nothing, the mobo registers nothing on either IDE channel, but the sata is still recognized. Because the hardware has changed, I get the XP boot options, and I choose last known good, but as it's fading in to the load screen, it freezes, does the same on Start Normally.

I try flipping the cables around, so the opticals are on channel 2, and the HDDs on channel 1, same thing. but when I put the old 18" ribbon back to the 40 gig (ide 2 again), it finds the disk, so i shut down and reconnect the opticals to IDE 1, it finds them as well.

What is wrong here? could a bad cable somehow cause both ide channels to stop working? or is it something else going on? I don't really need the other harddrive, but it would be nice to have to extra storage and another disk to back up too if needed, as the 40 gig is already full.

Any help is appreciated, I'm just glad it's not as I originally thought (my first guess was i'd fried the ide controller one way or another). Thanks,

- Pyro

 

[133]

set the jumpers ?

 

[Xeese]

Did everything boot fine when you removed the new cable? You can try using a standard cable to bot with the two drives on IDE 2, just don't mount them in case if the length of cable is too short.

 

[JustPyro]

yes, once i removed the new cable, and put the old ribbon back in, everything was recognized fine. and I did set the jumpers to the correct master/slave configuration, and they in turn were plugged into the correct master/slave heads on the cable. either way, that shouldn't cause channel 1 to not be recognized at all.

I am weary of plugging in the second hdd without having it mounted, because there's no surface to place it on, it would be dangling.

 

[Ice Czar]

Grab your manual and review the BIOS options
your likely looking for something like IDE Bus Manager
BIOS vary quite alot, and you may need to set more than one option

 

[JustPyro]

all of my ide channels are enabled. the cable is an ultra ata cable. if my harddrives aren't capable of ultra ata, would that matter? and if so, why does that still cause the other channel to stop registering? once again, thanks for all the help.

 

[Ice Czar]

the cable is an ultra ata cable. if my harddrives aren't capable of ultra ata, would that matter?

any modern HDD will do UDMA, and anything less than 4? years old will do mode5


IDE/ATA Transfer Modes

PIO - Programmed I/O
Mode 0................3.3MB/s
Mode 1................5.2MB/s
Mode 2................8.3MB/s
Mode 3................11.1MB/s
Mode 4................16.7MB/s

DMA- Direct Memory Access
Single Word Mode 0................2.1MB/s
Single Word Mode 1................4.2MB/s
Single Word Mode 2................8.3MB/s
Multiword Mode 0................4.2MB/s
Multiword Mode 1................13.3MB/s
Multiword Mode 2................16.7MB/s

UDMA - Ultra DMA
Mode 0................16.7MB/s
Mode 1................25.0MB/s
Mode 2................33.3MB/s (ATA33, modern optical drives)
Mode 3................44.4MB/s
Mode 4................66.7MB/s (ATA66)
Mode 5................100MB/s (ATA100, modern HDDs) ATA-ATAPI-6

ATA-ATAPI History

ATA/ATAPI-7
ATA/ATAPI-7 is ANSI NCITS project number 1532.

T13 started working on ATA/ATAPI-7 in October 2001.

ATA/ATAPI-7 includes UltraDMA mode 6 also known as Ultra DMA 133, some new commands for use by digital video recorders, and the T13 version of Serial ATA (SATA). The ATA/ATAPI-7 document has been split into three volumes: one for the hard disk commands, one for the traditional parallel ATA interface and one for the SATA-1 interface.

I dont really include ATA-ATAPI-7
since Im pretty sure your drive will be reported as UDMA Mode5
even if it is ATA133

Corruption 101
Partitioning and Optimizing Tutorial > Physical Configuration


both in the Data Storage FAQ

DMA Mode for ATA/ATAPI Devices in Windows XP

cut and paste from Corruption 101
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The Consequences

well other than your data going south

I just like being able to see jenna jameson without huge pixelated neon green corruptions all over her.

Windows will start to default to lower and lower transfer modes

DMA Mode for ATA/ATAPI Devices in Windows XP

For repeated DMA errors. Windows XP will turn off DMA mode for a device after encountering certain errors during data transfer operations. If more that six DMA transfer timeouts occur, Windows will turn off DMA and use only PIO mode on that device.

In this case, the user cannot turn on DMA for this device. The only option for the user who wants to enable DMA mode is to uninstall and reinstall the device.

Windows XP downgrades the Ultra DMA transfer mode after receiving more than six CRC errors. Whenever possible, the operating system will step down one UDMA mode at a time (from UDMA mode 4 to UDMA mode 3, and so on).

If the mini-IDE driver for the device does not support stepping down transfer modes, or if the device is running UDMA mode 0, Windows XP will step down to PIO mode after encountering six or more CRC errors. In this case, a system reboot should restore the original DMA mode settings.

All CRC and timeout errors are logged in the system event log. These types of errors could be caused by improper mounting or improper cabling (for example, 40-pin instead of 80-pin cable). Or such errors could indicate imminent hardware failure, for example, in a hard drive or chipset.

and the W2K counterpart

IDE ATA and ATAPI Disks Use PIO Mode After Multiple Time-Out or CRC Errors Occur
After the Windows IDE/ATAPI Port driver (Atapi.sys) receives a cumulative total of six time-out or cyclical redundancy check (CRC) errors, the driver reduces the communications speed (the transfer mode) from the highest Direct Memory Access (DMA) mode to lower DMA modes in steps. If the driver continues to receive time-out or CRC errors, the driver eventually reduces the transfer mode to the slowest mode (PIO mode).

which has further consequences
there is a myth about putting optical drives on the same channel as HDDs, it is just that a myth, but it keeps getting reinforced by the way Windows deals with ATA\ATAPI issues
basically with Independent Device Timing two devices (master\slave) both transfer their data at their own highest speed, but, they both either have to be PIO (which is glacially slow) or UDMA, if one defaults to PIO because of some issue, Windows will default the other as well. There was a time when CDROMs where only PIO, and HDDs where DMA, for that period of history you didnt want to share a channel, but modern opticals are UDMA mode2 so there is rarely any issue

some of the reasons a device might default to PIO
DMA Mode for ATA/ATAPI Devices in Windows XP
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

check that your properly jumpered
that there is no HDD set to single when a slave is present
or to Master with Slave present when there isnt
that your not mixing and matching Cable Select with Master \Slave on the same channel
that the Master is at the end of the cable
that there is no Slave without a Master

and review the cable section in Corruption 101 linked above
But Im still leaning to a Bus Manager Option somewhere in the BIOS that is misconfigured
but possibly a junk cable, especially if it a cheap IDE Round that is over the spec length
.

 

[JustPyro]

ok, i skimmed that nice faq, but most of it didn't seem to apply to me. the cables hang in almost the same spot. the only big difference in when i had the rounded cable in, the section between the slave connecter and master connecter stuckout, and thus hit the side of the case when it put the panel back on. however, i can no longer remember if i had the panel on when i switched the cables to the opposite channels.

the cable is a 24" and that could be the problem, but that still doesn't answer why the first ide channel would stop working, as both the 18" ribbon and 24" rounded are unshielded.

however, after reading that SATA faq, I almost which i hadn't gotten a Sata drive, except i haven't had problems with mine except for needing a floppy to install windows, and having to move it up in boot order. but that's another discussion.

I also looked through my manual for some bios settings, but I didn't see any that should be conflicting, I have both of the IDE channels enabled.

thanks for the help ice czar. i'm done fiddling for the night, but tomorrow i'm going to try to find something to rest the hdd on so i can have both ide hdds connected on the ribbon cable.

- Pyro

 

[Ice Czar]

at this point Id attach a single drive to a known good IDE cable and run both the HDD manufacturers diagnostic and ATACT, if they pass it tells you that mobo channel is OK
and you have a base to test other cables and configurations

repeat for the other channel

now if it fails (on either channel) it could either be the HDD the cable or the channel
so crosspart to the other channel or another computer

there could be more than one option in the BIOS as well
IDE being enabled and bus manager as well

an example for a P4C800
its "Enhanced Mode" under the IDE Configuration, and that IDE Bus Master is selected

 

[JPGR87]

18 inches is technically the maximum length for an IDE cable. Try using your new 24" cable with just one drive to make sure its not a conflict. If not i'd suggest finding a way to make a shorter cable run...

 

[JustPyro]

alright, there have been some time contraints, so I haven't been able to try anything yet new yet, but thanks for the help fellas, I'll let y'all know if anything has worked as soon as my schedule has cleared a bit.