I sure hope AMD gets Eyefinity working without DP

[Andrmgic]

nice. Let us know how it goes..

 

[King of Heroes]

Amazing. We are going to have to go through all this trouble (and $$$) to upgrade our equipment and DisplayPort barely even has any practical benefit. Then like next year they will bring out DisplayPort 1.2, which is not compatible with any current hardware (I bet). What a sham.

The practical benefit from DisplayPort comes from it being an internal and external connection standard (also called 'direct drive' by some). Meaning, a native DisplayPort monitor needs no (or at least a minimal amount of) internal electronics because it will driven directly by your video card (other features like scaling, color spaces, and pixel mapping can be handled directly by your video card as well). This also helps immensely with notebooks where space for internal electronics is at a minimum. This means thinner and cheaper to produce monitors. As well, upgrading the standard and adding new features is much easier as it will require a simple firmware update due to its use of a micro-packet signaling format. This is unlike HDMI and DVI which require totally new hardware when new features or an upgrade are implemented. Somebody mentioned a lower pin count compared to HDMI/DVI, this is because DP does not require separate clock pins because the clocking information is embedded into the data stream. DisplayPort's daisy chaining capability means that multiple monitors can be linked together with only a single cable actually coming out of your video card (this is similar to daisy chaining capability seen with Firewire devices). Also, DP's auxiliary bidirectional data channel means that your monitor's web camera, USB ports, and any other features can all be supplied by a single cable. So, no, it does not have 'barely any practical benefit'. On top of this, the standard is being supported by several industry heavyweights, such as Apple (obviously), ATI (obviously), Intel (which dropped its own competing next-gen DVI replacement in favor of DP), Nvidia, Dell (obviously, as they have quite a few of DP capable monitors out already), ASUS, and Samsung, just to name a few. Obviously these guys think it will have a practical benefit, otherwise they wouldn't support it. Its also worth mentioning that Nvidia and ATI's entire lineup of workstation video cards (Quadro FX, FirePro, and FireMV) have all broadly adopted DisplayPort already. The standard output suite of these cards is 2 x DisplayPort and 1 x DVI, or the entry-level models, just 2 x DisplayPort.

I understand you're pissed because the industry isn't sticking with DVI forever and ever and ever and ever and ever, but there is quite a bit of easy to find material out there for understanding why the transition to DisplayPort is being made. Please, please, PLEASE don't try and dumb down the issue just because you're mad. All that does is inhibit adoption.

http://www.displayport.org/consumer/
http://www.displayport.org/whitepapers/DP_Overview_English.pdf
http://www.displayport.org/consumer/?q=content/why-displayport
http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/vectors/displayport.pdf
http://www.computerpoweruser.com/ed...rticle=articles/archive/c0704/29c04/29c04.asp
http://www.google.com

 

[ClearM4]

Good info King.

As far as using 3 DVI ports for EyeFinity, it sounds like ATI is working on the issue and will hopefully have a certified usable option available in the next few months. EyeFinity is new and will need an adjustment period to tweak options and setup methods, that's why we are early adaptors. I am hoping ATI adds mismatching landscape and portrait screens to a EyeFinity group.

As of right now, buying one DP monitor to have an insane 1x3 monitor setup seems reasonable, but is obviously not a option for everyone.

 

[stainremover]

The practical benefit from DisplayPort comes from it being an internal and external connection standard (also called 'direct drive' by some). Meaning, a native DisplayPort monitor needs no (or at least a minimal amount of) internal electronics because it will driven directly by your video card (other features like scaling, color spaces, and pixel mapping can be handled directly by your video card as well). This also helps immensely with notebooks where space for internal electronics is at a minimum. This means thinner and cheaper to produce monitors. As well, upgrading the standard and adding new features is much easier as it will require a simple firmware update due to its use of a micro-packet signaling format. This is unlike HDMI and DVI which require totally new hardware when new features or an upgrade are implemented. Somebody mentioned a lower pin count compared to HDMI/DVI, this is because DP does not require separate clock pins because the clocking information is embedded into the data stream. DisplayPort's daisy chaining capability means that multiple monitors can be linked together with only a single cable actually coming out of your video card (this is similar to daisy chaining capability seen with Firewire devices). Also, DP's auxiliary bidirectional data channel means that your monitor's web camera, USB ports, and any other features can all be supplied by a single cable. So, no, it does not have 'barely any practical benefit'. On top of this, the standard is being supported by several industry heavyweights, such as Apple (obviously), ATI (obviously), Intel (which dropped its own competing next-gen DVI replacement in favor of DP), Nvidia, Dell (obviously, as they have quite a few of DP capable monitors out already), ASUS, and Samsung, just to name a few. Obviously these guys think it will have a practical benefit, otherwise they wouldn't support it. Its also worth mentioning that Nvidia and ATI's entire lineup of workstation video cards (Quadro FX, FirePro, and FireMV) have all broadly adopted DisplayPort already. The standard output suite of these cards is 2 x DisplayPort and 1 x DVI, or the entry-level models, just 2 x DisplayPort.

I understand you're pissed because the industry isn't sticking with DVI forever and ever and ever and ever and ever, but there is quite a bit of easy to find material out there for understanding why the transition to DisplayPort is being made. Please, please, PLEASE don't try and dumb down the issue just because you're mad. All that does is inhibit adoption.

http://www.displayport.org/consumer/
http://www.displayport.org/whitepapers/DP_Overview_English.pdf
http://www.displayport.org/consumer/?q=content/why-displayport
http://www.dell.com/downloads/global/vectors/displayport.pdf
http://www.computerpoweruser.com/ed...rticle=articles/archive/c0704/29c04/29c04.asp
http://www.google.com

good info, but based on what you said, monitors won't get cheaper to make until you get a displayport only monitor (otherwise you still need the hardware for dvi / hdmi). until that port, displayport actually just makes monitors more expensive since they'll need the internals for displayport AND traditional dvi/hdmi. it may be a good standard with great features, but that doesn't mean it's not a burden. pretty much every mac user i know has bitched endlessly about having to fork over $50 for the silly adapter. and these are the ones that complain about not getting a new ipod to buy every 12 months...

also, it seems like none of those features are particularly suited toward enthusiasts. seems kinda pointless to force it upon them.

 

[King of Heroes]

until that port, displayport actually just makes monitors more expensive since they'll need the internals for displayport AND traditional dvi/hdmi.

Read the Computer Power User article that discusses the internals of DP. It needs practically no electronics to implement beyond a simple interface:

http://www.computerpoweruser.com/images/smartcomputing/fullsize/01303631.jpg

It would cost barely anything in comparison to the cost of implementing DVI or HDMI. This is why many new monitors coming out now have DisplayPort implemented with no difference in cost compared to monitors that don't have it. Kyle Bennet gave a list of monitors that implement DP in his Eyefinity review:

Dell 3008 - Dell U2410 - Dell 2408 - Dell P2010H - Dell P2210H - Dell P2310H - NEC MultiSync EA231WMi-BK - HP LP2480zx - HP LP2475w - HP LP2275w - Lenovo 2440x

All of them are non-TN monitors that are priced accordingly to their panel type (IPS and VA), which all command a noticeable premium over TN. Actually, the HP LP2475w, an H-IPS monitor, is actually priced lower than many of its competitors.

 

[stainremover]

practically none is not none, it is still additional electronics. and a standard that doesn't require a lot of electronics does people no good if the displays still have to carry the electronics required to support legacy ports. a monitor with a displayport and a dvi port is no better than a monitor with just a dvi. it is not cheaper nor is it any smaller.

Read the Computer Power User article that discusses the internals of DP. It needs practically no electronics to implement beyond a simple interface:

http://www.computerpoweruser.com/images/smartcomputing/fullsize/01303631.jpg

It would cost barely anything in comparison to the cost of implementing DVI or HDMI. This is why many new monitors coming out now have DisplayPort implemented with no difference in cost compared to monitors that don't have it. Kyle Bennet gave a list of monitors that implement DP in his Eyefinity review:

Dell 3008 - Dell U2410 - Dell 2408 - Dell P2010H - Dell P2210H - Dell P2310H - NEC MultiSync EA231WMi-BK - HP LP2480zx - HP LP2475w - HP LP2275w - Lenovo 2440x

All of them are non-TN monitors that are priced accordingly to their panel type (IPS and VA), which all command a noticeable premium over TN. Actually, the HP LP2475w, an H-IPS monitor, is actually priced lower than many of its competitors.

 

[Andrmgic]

I think it is best to look at these monitors as "bridges" to the displayport future.

As displayport gains more of a foothold in computing scenarios beyond the professional and enthusiast markets, we'll start seeing some displayport only models and they will cost less than their traditional counterparts.

Apple's 24" cinema display is the only one (I think) that is displayport only. Of course, it is also (one of?) the most affordable LED backlit H-IPS panel monitors out there.

 

[DanNeely]

displayport actually just makes monitors more expensive since they'll need the internals for displayport AND traditional dvi/hdmi.

More likely display port will just displace the second or 3rd connector already on the panel, giving a net savings of one legacy port.

 

[DanNeely]

Also, DP's auxiliary bidirectional data channel means that your monitor's web camera, USB ports, and any other features can all be supplied by a single cable.

I have to quibble here. The aux channel is only 1Mbit/sec vs 40 for USB1 or 480 for USB2; unless the protocal is enhanced to allow sending aux data using extra bandwidth in the video channel it's not going to be useful for much beyond onscreen controls or cordless input dongles.

 

[King of Heroes]

I have to quibble here. The aux channel is only 1Mbit/sec vs 40 for USB1 or 480 for USB2; unless the protocal is enhanced to allow sending aux data using extra bandwidth in the video channel it's not going to be useful for much beyond onscreen controls or cordless input dongles.

I know AUX channel bandwidth is being increased (along with other bandwidth increases) with DisplayPort 1.2, but I don't know by how much. VESA is, at least, aware that 1Mbit/s is low and it is their intention to increase its bandwidth to make effective use of USB devices:

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/08/ces_displayport_to_support_usb/

Montag didn't say how much total bandwidth would be available to USB, but he said the team was targetting 480Mb/s USB 2.0 devices.

 

[CanesVenetici]

I love how everyone wants to cry that eyefinity won't work without a dp monitor. As has been stated, it is on ATi AMD's site. It isn't like they hid it from you. Is the technology still awesome? Hell yeah it is. Just don't cry because you had to have the card the first week and didn't do the research first. Knowing what i know am I still going to grab one of these? Yes. DP monitors do exist, newegg doesn't have DP as an option in advanced search, but the monitors are there. I found an HP that has it in under 5 minutes. Can I afford to buy more monitors now? No, but I'm not going to cry about it. I don't need an E-penis that big right now. The rig I'm currently building is going to be [H]ard enough without a 5760 x 1200 display for the time being.