How come no one here use Grado?

Ok, you're right, rock is a very broad category, but on the whole, can we at least agree that it is somewhat bass oriented? Well then why would you want to use cans that have no bass end?!

Sennheisers have a "higher level of detail" and can very easily point out the flaws in music, yet I still find rock 'n roll to be very enjoyable with them. And my HD-580s are even less "bassey" than Grados.
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Wait....did you say your senns have a higher level of detail than grados? have you ever HEARD a set of grados? common, anyone who has two ears and tried them side by side (like myself) would agree that grados have more detail than senns.

And did you say HD580s are LESS bassey than grados? again, have you ever tried them side by side!? Don't mistake that midrange hump for bass....it's not. Here, check this HD580 vs SR80 graph....tell me what you see... http://headphone.com/graphCompare.p...0020090080&buttonSelection=Compare+Headphones

notice the fact that grados have no bass? notice the fact that they have a big ol' hump in there?

Please only post when you know what you're talking about.
 
Well, regardless of the fact that it's thrown into the bottom of an unrelated thread, I'm willing to watch and see how it goes.. I have a feeling, though, should it go against you, it will just "prove how wrong Head-Fi is".
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Well, I've been watching this thread too....and I've only recieved some affirmation and no opposition.....maybe someone other than me knows what they're talking about.
 
Originally posted by X86Dude
http://headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=30&ICN[]=0020080580&ICN[]=0020090080&
Fixt. ;)
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Broken is more like it. Headroom's smoothed, normalized graphs are no more than a novelty. This headphone (and the HD600) don't have usable bass to 20hz. That graph shows +10dBa at that frequency, which everyone who owns a pair would have a nice laugh at.

This is the real graph, this is what the dummy ear actually measured:

http://www.headphone.com/graphs/showGraph.php?graphID=237
 
Originally posted by Zemo

Wait....did you say your senns have a higher level of detail than grados? have you ever HEARD a set of grados? common, anyone who has two ears and tried them side by side (like myself) would agree that grados have more detail than senns.

And did you say HD580s are LESS bassey than grados? again, have you ever tried them side by side!? Don't mistake that midrange hump for bass....it's not. Here, check this HD580 vs SR80 graph....tell me what you see... http://headphone.com/graphCompare.p...0020090080&buttonSelection=Compare+Headphones

notice the fact that grados have no bass? notice the fact that they have a big ol' hump in there?

Please only post when you know what you're talking about.
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No, I did not say that Senns have a higher level of detail than Grados. You said:

Because grados have a higher level of detail, the fallicies and anamolies in the mixing/mastering process are made more apperent than the sound engineers would like...you begin to hear how poorly it was recorded....if you want to ENJOY rock, lose the grados
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Since you did not mention what exactly you were comparing the Grados to, it is reasonable to assume a comparision vs the average. I compared against the same average in my statement. If I meant otherwise, I would've put "than Grados" at the end, much like I did for my following statement.

Well, ya got me..I overextended on the bass thing. No, I don't have a lot of experience listening on Grados. I do have a lot of experience with my Senns, however, and no matter what a chart might say, they are as "bass-less" as they come. Maybe the Grados do manage to have even less bass, I couldn't say. In either case, my Senn's lack bass end, and still produce an enjoyable rock sound. Even if it were true that rock is "somewhat bass oriented", which it isn't, cans with no bass end can still produce a good listening experience for rock.

BTW, this, from the Head-Fi board, hardly proves your point:
Zemo. You are right, rock varies quite a bit. ROCK is very broad term, almost too broad, like Classical music. Say like, Thrash Metal, Static X type Music, is VERY mid bass heavy. It tends to scoop mids in the guitar sound, increasing low end to max levels and treble till it distorts greatly, creating a crunchy sound. The double bass drums are pounded like a sprinter on his last meters. I think only this genre has this kind of aggression. Rock already sounds overly bright "live" so it needs to be tamed. I guess listening to a variety of cans would only help.
Those AT A500 seem like good cans.
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After you posted, there were 10 posts, and only 1 even acknowledge your post at all. Like I said, it was thrown into the end of another subject, I hardly expect a big debate over the matter to break out there. If you consider that vindication anyway, then congratulations, I guess.

MF
 
Well, I got a pair of SR80's for X-mas and while I am no audiophile, I can give you all my opinion on what they have been like. I know the debate has been about if the SR80s are a good set of cans for rock. I think that these are more of a good multipurpose headphone, but rock dont sont bad on them at all either. I listen to rock, oldies, clasical, country, some rap, then odd stuff like celtic music, bagpipes, swing, and trance/rave. I guess you can say I listen to pretty much all the genras of music out there.

Where I think the Grados REALLY shine is in the stuff like bagpipes, classical, stuff with vocals, and SWING!. Glenn Miller sounds top notch! ;) Anyways, I think the bass is plenty for rock, especially classic rock. Listening to Led Zepplin, Kansas, Guess Who, and Queen realy brings out the Grado's really top notch sound.

As far as comfort goes, the trick was said above. If you spread/bend the metal band out so they rest on the ears and arn't tight, they feel fine even after several hours of usage.

Hey, for $80 I love them and they sure are better than the stuff I listened too @ Fry's that were in the same pricerange. My friend has an amp and says the bass is a bit beteer with an amp, so I can't really comment on that till I hear it in person. Anyways, if you listen to a wide range of music, go for the Grados. The difference from my old $30 Sony headphones is AMAZING. So if you are like me and have the LOTR OST, Led Zepplin, Toby Keith, Enya, and Godsmack all in your CD case at once, I would recomend the SR80s.

My 2 cents!
 
Here, I'll post this, see if this'll make you happier:
http://www5.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66505

TheAMAZINGNorad - Congradulations! Finally someone who can say (from experience) what they think! I agree entireley with you. Because of Grados midrange hump and excessive high end, they make high-range sounds sound good!

No, I did not say that Senns have a higher level of detail than Grados. You said:
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Umm....yeah you did:

And my HD-580s are even less "bassey" than Grados.
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On another note:

I do have a lot of experience with my Senns, however, and no matter what a chart might say, they are as "bass-less" as they come.
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Listen to some more headphones, you'll change your mind....try some grados... :D


Maybe the Grados do manage to have even less bass, I couldn't say.
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But you DID say! (next quote up)



This is the real graph, this is what the dummy ear actually measured:
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Thanks....too bad there's no graph like that from Sr80s....
 
Originally posted by Zemo


Umm....yeah you did:


On another note:


Listen to some more headphones, you'll change your mind....try some grados... :D


But you DID say! (next quote up)


Thanks....too bad there's no graph like that from Sr80s....
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A: I still have not said that the Senns have more detail than the Grados. I clearly explained that in my last post. If you can't understand an explanation of such basic ideas, than I don't know why you think we should take your word on audio reviews. Note the quotes around the phrase "higher level of detail". That refers to the fact that I was using the same basis of measurement as you did - in this case, an ambiguous comparison, which I later explained related to average level of detail.

How the Grados' suitability for rock can be so clear to you, yet this remains a mystery, confounds me.

B: I admitted fault in my comparison of "bassey'ness" between the two. What else do you want me to do?

BTW, if you agree with theAMAZINGNorad, then you would agree that:

Anyways, I think the bass is plenty for rock, especially classic rock. Listening to Led Zepplin, Kansas, Guess Who, and Queen realy brings out the Grado's really top notch sound.
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Which is exactly the opposite of what you were arguing, no?
 
Originally posted by OTL
Broken is more like it. Headroom's smoothed, normalized graphs are no more than a novelty. This headphone (and the HD600) don't have usable bass to 20hz. That graph shows +10dBa at that frequency, which everyone who owns a pair would have a nice laugh at.

This is the real graph, this is what the dummy ear actually measured:

http://www.headphone.com/graphs/showGraph.php?graphID=237
Click to expand...

You obviously missed the point of my post so let me try to clear it up for you.

Originally posted by Zemo
Here, check this HD580 vs SR80 graph....tell me what you see... http://headphone.com/graphCompare.p...aphType=30&ICN[]=0020080580&ICN[]=0020090080&
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Fixt. ;)


Now, since you brought it up.
Do you actually believe the graph of what "the dummy ear actually measured" is a more accurate representation of human hearing then the smoothed normalized results indicate??
 
Originally posted by X86Dude
You obviously missed the point of my post so let me try to clear it up for you.



Fixt. ;)
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It was clear as day what the point of your post was: to compare the two (flawed) measurements in order to support your opinion.

Now, since you brought it up.
Do you actually believe the graph of what "the dummy ear actually measured" is a more accurate representation of human hearing then the smoothed normalized results indicate??
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Well it doesn't matter what I think. When the president of the company deems those early graphs "shaky", and spends a small fortune on new test equipment and many man hours redoing everything with an improved methodology, that about says it all.


Here's the official announcement thread, and it also links to a .pdf of the new measurements. Still a work in progress, but the SR-80's are on there.
 
A: I still have not said that the Senns have more detail than the Grados. I clearly explained that in my last post. If you can't understand an explanation of such basic ideas, than I don't know why you think we should take your word on audio reviews. Note the quotes around the phrase "higher level of detail". That refers to the fact that I was using the same basis of measurement as you did - in this case, an ambiguous comparison, which I later explained related to average level of detail.
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Sorry, sorry, my bad. I assumed since the WHOLE FREAKIN' THREAD is about grados, that's what we were comparing to....my bad.

Anyways, I think the bass is plenty for rock, especially classic rock. Listening to Led Zepplin, Kansas, Guess Who, and Queen realy brings out the Grado's really top notch sound.
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I agree with this statement for two reasons:
1- it's based off of personal experience, not someone talking about a set of headphones he's never heard before. And as such is an opinion....I can't tell you your opinion is wrong....well, I CAN, but an opinion is just that....an opinion.

2- It's agreed rock has many sub-genres, right? ok, compare classic rock with modern rock....wich has more bass? modern. Wich is better mixed? Classic.....wich genre would grados be more adept to? classic rock....exactly what was said.

How the Grados' suitability for rock can be so clear to you, yet this remains a mystery, confounds me.
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STILL a mystery? ok.... Let me spell it out...

Grado's lack of bass and high level of detail bring out the flaws and hide the good points in rock and other bass heavy music.


is it clear yet?
 
Originally posted by Zemo
Oh, by the way, the general concensus on the thread I started at head-fi (http://www5.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66505) is that Grados are only suitable for rock if you overcome their weaknesses (harsh, no bass) with equiptment.....
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BTW what components were you using when you came to the conclusion the SR-80's have no bass?

While I would agree that the low-end Grados are comparatively lean compared to some more expensive headphones, it's wrong to generalize on the entire product line based on an experience with their second from the bottom. As you climb the Grado chain bass improves incrementally, culminating in the truly world class RS-1's. I think most would recommend the SR-225's as a baseline for close to Sennheiser bass extension.
 
Zemo, it's more like they said the cans have to be properly matched, but that is true for most good headphones. You should check out that thread now and see what they think of your opinion..
 
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