Home Theater PC on Network of Tvs

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pdwatermelon

Weaksauce
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Nov 7, 2007
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I am trying to build HTPC with the following Goals in Mind

Store a Lot of DVDs
Easy to Operate
Record TV (Multiple)
Integrated security and Audio
And most importantly work as a server of some sort so that I can watch different things on different Tv's througout the house.

My setup.
I plan on using the russound distributed Audio system Cav6.6. I am not sure as to what home security system to use, with color, night vision, motion detector cameras ( any ideas would be nice). I am going to have three computers that I want to network, and 9 different Tv's and Locations.

My question

Is there any way to perform this kind of network and distribution, through either one or a series of servers/ HTPC's that I can either buy or build. Also is there anyway I will be able to build or program something in to look at my home security camera's on the web. Thanks
 
For the cameras, the easiest or best option to go with would be IP networkable cameras. Just hook them up to your switch (or wireless-g) and you are all set. You could access the cameras from any computer or TV hooked up to a computer. You can spend as much as you want to spend on IP cameras. There's some really high end ones, or cheap home use cameras. Some have pan/tilt/zoom, some have built in nightvision IR, some have built in motion detection, some don't.. it all depends on the cash you have at hand.

For the TV situation, it all depends. I would recommend a coax distribution amp if you want cable or satellite to each TV. But then it also depends on if you want HD or standard def to what you can go with in terms of a HTPC or media device. Look at HD Homerun, it might suit your interests well.

The first thing I would do is have a nice fast hard wired gigabit network in the house, and maybe a wireless-g or wireless-n network depending if you need it or not. I wouldn't depend on wireless for streaming HD content depending on your distance and number of floors that the signal has to travel through.

For a central storage point for the movie access from HTPC's, go with a nice file server. If you are going to possibly doing multiple accesses from drives at once from different computers, a nice RAID setup would be the way to go.

For computers, windows media center 2005 or vista media center is the way to go. Superior compatibility and ease of use & setup are great advantages. The computers themselves don't need to be all that powerful if they are doing standard def content. A stronger single core CPU or very low end dual core is sufficient.
 
Wow, thanks for the quick response.
1. How will I access the security camera's through the switch via the TV. Will I be able to use a modulator of some wort to designate a channel to be the security camera. Also a lot of camera setups have a box that the system goes through, would I then just hook that box up to the router?

2. A coax distribution amp...Will this let me watch different channels on all my tvs at the same time. Does one of these exist for hdmi? Does something like this exist for cat5 or cat 6. I will be running that stuff all over the place for other things, so I will have a lot of that to spare.

3. I will definitely have a 10/100/1000 router, do I need a switch as well? It will be wireless G, Do I lose anything if I daisy Chain routers?

4. A central Storage point, do I need a seperate Server, and then a HTPC. Also I do not need to access it from different computers as much as being to access it from multiple TV's. This would be optimal. (side question -Do I run the HTPC through a receiver, then to my speakers?)

5. I will use vista Media Center, and I Can build a simple computer, what kind of raid card would I need. THanks


I was reading somewhere about your setup that seemed interesting. I don't remember who, but somebody said they had copied your setup and it worked good . Is there any way you could point me to a forum or post where you talked about your setup and how you put it all together. That would keep me busy for a while. Than
 
pdwatermelon, I don't have security but I do have distributed video via PC's

3. Depends on how many ports you have on that router, if it's a fairly large install it might be best to get a router and a separate switch 24 or 48 port switch and separate wireless access points to get 99% coverage. You can daisy chain switches together but try to at least start off with more than you need so you aren't doing so many.

4. Your server acts as a backend aggregator, right now I run MCE 2005 on all the machines, the "server" is just a MCE 2005 machine that records and allows timeshifting of all the shows. The other head end devices, Media Center Extenders, Xbox 360's and a few more MCE 2005 machines playback all the recorded TV and any local content at that station, DVD's or locally stored media. The head end devices don't actually get a TV signal themselves it all comes from the central mce 2005 "server" which is just a beefed up MCE 2005 install with a 2TB RAID6 array with a dual tv tuner, and I've read that you can expand that to multiple TV tuners and allow for more channels to be watched and shifted at the same time.
 
I don't really have a setup like you want.. I just have a single room theater. Here's the link if you are interested.
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1218672

But it sounds like you might need a little bit of help setting all this up. I don't know how tech savvy you are, but what you want to do might get a little complicated, and some of it might not be do-able.

1) Since you said you wanted HTPC's hooked up to the TV's in the rooms, I figured IP cameras would be the easiest option to go with. Most IP cams work by just visiting a website in your internet browser, or they come with programs you install on the PC's and just point to the IP address of the camera which is attached to your network and it brings them up on the screen for you to view.

2) I don't know a whole lot about which coax distribution amps are that good because I don't have much home use experience with them, but yes, they will allow you to view different channels on each TV/PC. Something like this..
http://www.amazon.com/Channel-Plus-DA-8200BID-Bidirectional-Distribution/dp/B00009WDUG

3) You should have your cable modem coming into the router, then have the router going into a switch or switches. It all depends on how many network connections you need. It is the cleanest way to get multiple connections while maintaining good speed.

4) I still really don't understand what you want to do. The easiest solution would be to have a central storage server for everything (music, dvd's, movies, etc). Then each TV would have its own media center pc or device. That way each individual could watch or listen to what they wanted without it effecting anyone else. Or did you want the same thing to be viewed on all TV's at once? :confused:

5) It all depends on how many hard drives you wanted with how much storage. You can spend $100 to $1000 easily on a RAID card for home server use.
 
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It's extremely important to mention that in order to record Digital Cable, you're only option at this time is to buy HTPC's with OCURs from a qualified vendor or use the Series 3 Tivo.

For the TV portion, if recording digital content is a must, you could go the Series 3 Tivo route. The upcoming software update will allow you to move content to a Windows PC (TIVO to GO), allow Multi Room Viewing, and allows e-SATA support for additional storage space.

Unfortunately, this will not allow playback of stored DVD's etc.

If this is a must for all rooms then HTPC's or Media Extenders will be required. You could buy a beefy HTPC with OCUR support for Digital TV/HD/Cable Card recording and use that as your sole DVR and store the content on that box or on another server. From there you can access this content using other HTPC's, Xbox 360, or one of the new media extender products that are coming available.

As far as the Secuity portion, there are numerous software plugins available to add that to the Media Center. Whether you would be able to access that from the extenders, I don't know, you'll have to research that.

My bro is a NY certified/Bonded Security installer. If you want questions answered regarding secuirty equipment, cameras, install..etc, LMK..I can find out for you very easily.
 
Thanks So far.

w1retap - I think that Coax amp could really work, I don't see why it won't. The reviews I read for that particular model didn't seem to good, but I will look around.

mrwhitethc - What do you mean by Media Center Extenders? Also do you have a link so I can see detail on your setup, or would you mind letting me know the components and software you used with your setup to get 2TB of storage...This is minimally what I would like. Why Raid6, not raid1 or raid0?
I am going to draw up a diagram of what I want to accomplish....maybe I can see how I might be able to fill in the blanks.

Vader - What about satellite cable? What is Direct TV? Can I pu tthe components of a series 3 in my HTPC without having two separate boxes. Why will this not allow DVD Viewing....Can't I just select TV and then Select DVDs when I want the respective thing on Media Center.

If I were to Find a "BEEFY" HTPC withh OCUR support for DIGITAL TV/HD/Cable Card recording, where would I find one of those. WHat are the New Media extender Products that are going to be coming available soon. Thanks.

My Diagram to Come soon>>>
Can't wait to get started,and take a lot of pics.

Also on the security cameras equip...is there a website
 
diagram.jpg
 
IF there is a question mark above, that is because I don't know what to put there. But this is the start to my system. I will try ti add on when I find out more, to make it a bit more detailed. I am wondering, do I need a HTPC and a MEDIA Server.
 
If I am not wrong about this project. Why not make a main server raid, have all the data stored here and security system, and then make less powerfully htpc for each tv, and have access you main server via gigabit.
Thanks
 
That sounds very pricey. I Think it would probably work though. I want to find a way to not have that much cost. Also, what software, (if I did do that) would I use to access the different tv channels from each tv through the HTPC then through my "File Server"
 
wire You said
"I'm using HD digital cable hooked up to the receiver, then it routes it to the projector. I'm waiting for an open digital tuner or cable card solution for the consumer. It shouldn't be too long from now. I'm guessing in the next two years for sure." at the end of a post of yours. Would OCUR solve this problem. How do I integrate that into my system, and =Vader= Why do I need to buy the Whole HTPC from a vendor and not just this card or whatever. Also you mentioned something about camera setup. I am looking for a simple 4 - 6 camera set up that will stream through my pc or htpc or server and be viewable from certain TV's in the house...maybe password protected? Also, they need to be color, and night vision able, motion detect recording capability, and timed record capability. I need it to go to my PC so I can record oodles of robbers that want to break in. Thanks. Give me a price and a setup from your bro. THanks
 
An OCUR tuner would solve my problem for Digital Cable tuning. I'm unsure about Satellite. You would have to read more into it. But you can get a HTPC with an OCUR tuner from Velocity Micro, HP, and a few other companies. You can't buy the tuner separate, you have to get it pre-built into a HTPC you buy from them. Its some stupid agreement they made because of DRM or piracy.. who knows, Cable Labs is retarded.

For the cameras, like I said any decent IP security cam will do the job. I setup some Linksys cameras at my old work, and they do the job well. They are easy to setup and work great. I have in the past tried cheaper cameras, and either the software sucks or the camera image quality sucks. I would look into these. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16881334001
 
OCUR will only work with Digital Cable and as wiretap said, you can only buy them from certified dealers in an HTPC setup, not stand alone. There are limited options for recording satallite TV from an HTPC and as far as I know, no options for doing this for the US at this time.

For Satellite, you can get some HR20 HD DVR's, and while I have this setup for the massive amount of HD I get now, there really is nothing you can do as far as sharing recordings..etc around the house, that's why I have cable too, to record into my main Quad Core PC and then I use my Windows Home Server to store all the recordings and access those recordings in three ways from 3 different rooms: XBOX Hacked w/XBMC bedroom, HTPC Spare Room, Xbox 360 Living Room, HTPC Daughters bedroom.

If I had to do this again, I would go Xbox 360 and V2 Media Extenders.

I'll talk to my brother today. Can you send me sketch of building and perimeter? You can monitor IP via Web/Java to view from some of the TV's but you'll have to have an PC at those tv's to use the web. You can also view your cameras from your Smartphone as well. My brother does a TON of BAR business and the owners love the fact that they can see what's going on by logging in using there smartphone.

As far as setting up Linksys IP cameras, that's all fine and dandy for someone who just wants to view. and with limited detail, however, for what he/she wants...there is nothing at newegg that's going to accomodate.
 
There is my floor plan. the small red dots are where I want the cameras . There is also a shed that is attached that I will need one in as well. Would it be possible to use more than 5 v2 extenders, or would i have to have two totally seperate Media centers. Thanks.
 
If I need to get that card I am looking at the Velocity Micro http://www.velocitymicro.com/wizard.php?iid=96
I am not to happy with the price, when I am sure I can build my own for much cheaper. Also if i do get this and want the minimal hard drive set up. How can I hook up my own system with a bunch of hard drives to give me all the storage I want?
 
What do you mean by Media Center Extenders? Also do you have a link so I can see detail on your setup, or would you mind letting me know the components and software you used with your setup to get 2TB of storage...This is minimally what I would like. Why Raid6, not raid1 or raid0?
Click to expand...

Media Center Extenders allow you to connect to a Media Center PC, basically a GUI to let you tap into the Media Center frontend without having to build another PC. The cheapest option if you are going Media Center Vista will be an XBOX 360, the other V2 extenders cost more than that the last I saw. If you are going with Media Center 2005, they do have V1 extenders for sale every so often you can pick up on the cheap, but if you want to be able to upgrade to Vista at some point then the 360 is your best bet.

As for my RAID setup, I bought an 8 port RAID card off ebay, I already had 4 320gb drives around so I picked up 4 more and went with RAID 6 so I could have 2 drives fail. While RAID 1 would give you redundancy, it becomes cost prohibitive fast, and RAID 0 you are just risking your collection to a single disk failure or power sag. And remember RAID is no substitute for a good backup, it can only protect you so far.

I run the OS off it's own 500gb drive as well since it just sits there and records tv. I use the RAID array as a media archive for the movies, music and tv I want to keep.
 
pdwatermelon said:
That sounds very pricey. I Think it would probably work though. I want to find a way to not have that much cost. Also, what software, (if I did do that) would I use to access the different tv channels from each tv through the HTPC then through my "File Server"
Click to expand...

No offense but judging by your picture containing an array of huge-ass TVs, home gym etc you're not short of a few bucks.

The idea of a central file server/camera/tv recording unit and several extenders sounds the best to me. The extenders need not be very powerful - as mentioned you could use Xbox 360s (not sure how much they are these days?).
 
Do they currently have a card that will decrypt the QAM? It's Funny when I say "THEY", I don't really know who I am referring to. Oh well....
mrwhitethc - Do you have your raid setup and your OS recording the TV in different boxes literally, or are they all together. If they are in different boxes, do you have to run a seperate OS in the Raid Box or is there a way you can just link them up with out a motherboard, Processor, Ram, etc. Just by using a cable or something.
 
Also Wondering how I hook up my DVR that comes with my Table company to my HTPC. and is there a way my software will override the cable companies software???? or do i just bypass their DVR all together and hook up mine...except then I do not have the cable card that I need, but if i use their DVR (with the cable card) then stream it all over to my computer and somehow store my tv on my hard drive - not theres - that would be sweet. Thanks. Simple instructions would be optimal.
 
Everything is in the same box, OS & raid and dual tuner, I don't have digital cable. All the other HTPCs, extenders and 360's point to the box for the playback, nothing is locally recorded on them.

If you have a cable box the media center remote comes with a set of IR Blasters that can control the cable box to change the channel. I used this previously when I had digital cable and it was decent but did miss some recordings, it was about 90% accurate.

I'm not really sure how you would facilitate more than 2 IR Blasters without having a mess of wires and space constraints. Even so like everyone else said to use cable card you need to buy a full PC, while the price is decent, I'm not sure how you would go about adding more cable card tuners or even if you are allowed too.

I will say be prepared to tinker, fiddle and play with this, just because you copy someones setup doesn't mean it will work for you, this kind of hobby seems to take on a life of it's own. I can't count the number if iterations, parts, pc's, etc that I went through before I ended up where I am at now. And I am sure I only have a fraction of the setup of some other members here and over at avsforum and thegreenbutton.
 
Can I then run two TV's From one extender - I am assuming the same content will appear on both tvs simultaneously , but am hoping that I can control each one, even if the channel changes on the other....for example my master bed and master bath can be the exact same channel, and if I am in the bathroom I want to be able to control from the bath room tv. Thanks
 
pdwatermelon said:
Can I then run two TV's From one extender - I am assuming the same content will appear on both tvs simultaneously , but am hoping that I can control each one, even if the channel changes on the other....for example my master bed and master bath can be the exact same channel, and if I am in the bathroom I want to be able to control from the bath room tv. Thanks
Click to expand...

You'll just need to use RF remotes, I'd just use one and take it between the rooms. Where is the TV mounted in the bathroom? I've been wanting to put on in the water closet, but I could see one back in the soaking tub area being pretty cool as well.
 
Remember if you are using an extender you'll have to split the video out/sound as well as extend the IR remote receiver. If you are using an second HTPC you can use a video card with 2 DVI/VGA ports and use windows built in clone mode, then all you would have to worry about would be extending the IR and the sound. But you have to be careful with extending sound/video as a delay greater than 15-50ms combined with any other delay that might already be in the transmission can cause lip sync issues. It all depends on how sensitive you are to lip sync issues, some people have problems spotting it others can see it right away.
 
I am thinking either in the tub area, or over on the vanity, not quite sure yet....yes I hate lip sync issues, cant stand them. I will see what I can do to split it up without a HTPC in there....oi
 
So we can recored Analog on the Computer...not HD right now, what happens when everybody switches to digital in 09
 
pdwatermelon said:
So we can recored Analog on the Computer...not HD right now, what happens when everybody switches to digital in 09
Click to expand...

You just use a QAM tuner...it'll tune unencrypted digital. Until cable labs allows individuals to pruchase cablecard tuners, we'll just be stuck with the unencrypted signal.
 
pdwatermelon said:
So we can recored Analog on the Computer...not HD right now, what happens when everybody switches to digital in 09
Click to expand...

Thats just the cut-over date for OTA signals. It doesn't mean your cable company will pull the plug on their analog service (but they may for the fun of it)

ND40oz said:
You just use a QAM tuner...it'll tune unencrypted digital. Until cable labs allows individuals to pruchase cablecard tuners, we'll just be stuck with the unencrypted signal.
Click to expand...


Unless your provider is like mine (Comcast near Atlanta), who encrypts everything except for OTA channels on their QAM signals....
 
for the security cameras, couldnt you double up your component (rca) cables to each TV, and have like a separate computer for them with just a simple minimal install on it with like video out having the cameras up on it all the time broadcasting to the rca cables to a distributor block.. that way, instead of using the internet on like 10 different machines, you could just switch your TVs to like video2 and it should show the screen of the camera PC...

you could then have that either record your cameras to itself, or to your big file server.


just a thought.
 
-GIGABYTE GA-M61P-S3 AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 ATX AMD Motherboard -

-HIS Hightech H260PRFS512DDN-R Radeon HD 2600PRO 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready Video Card

-Sony NEC Optiarc 18X DVD±R DVD Burner With 12X DVD-RAM Write Beige E-IDE / ATAPI Model 7170A-01 (Soon to be replaced by HD DVD ROM)

-CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X2048-6400C4

-550 W PSU

-AMD ATHLON 5600+ X2

-WIN TV HVR 1600 Tuner

- Thermalite Mozart Case

-1 Sata 750GB Hard Drive (needed a small one for the OS)

-Vista Home Premium for Media Center

-X-box 360 as a media extender for the trial

I Got that case because I need a lot of room for a lot of hard drives, it looks good, and I don’t want it to be toooooo Big.

Had to just get a regular Rom Drive because I know HD prices are going to drop in the next year.

Also Haven’t gotten my routers yet…still runnin the old Linksey’s G….Any recommendations will be nice. I am looking at the Wireless N Gigabit router from D-Link or Linksey’s , but It looks like I am going to want a 16 port switch as well, and I don’t know if either of those companies have one with a gigabit in there.

As for the Camera’s on a separate setup, I would really like to integrate them into media center somehow….That is my goal. IF you know how to do this let me know. THanks
 
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