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GSYNC, FREESYNC, and the Consumer

linuxdude9 said:
That has nothing to do with the Freesync/adaptive sync technology, but rather monitor makers didn't implement Freesync + pixel overdrive working at the same time.

The best part about G-sync is spending the extra $200 on the monitor, whereas on AMD you'll be able to spend the extra $200 upgrading to higher-end graphics card.
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No, the problem is that AMD failed to optimize for those panels in their driver. It's typical AMD failure on the software side.
 
5150Joker said:
No, the problem is that AMD failed to optimize for those panels in their driver. It's typical AMD failure on the software side.
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From all accounts, most issues with adaptive sync seem to have to do with the scaler units in the panels themselves. Since with GSync, Nvidia makes the scaler, there should be more consistency with the Nvidia product for the time being. I imagine though, that as panels improve, that GSync should not need to be relevant anymore. The only thing that would keep it relevant is Nvidia's unwillingness to allow their video cards to simply use the adaptive sync standard and not their own GSync standard.

Right now, their argument is that they have a better product. And based on what I can see (at least on paper - I've never seen one in person unfortunately), it looks like their manufacturing of the scaler is giving GSync the edge. But over time, I see this argument holding less and less water, as other panel manufacturers get their stuff up to snuff. :)

Personally, I would love to see adaptive sync come up and match GSync one for one, and I would love to see GSync go away. We can thank Nvidia for bringing it to market and showing us how great it can be, but being vendor-locked is never a good position to be in.
 
I'm waiting for a more readily available, open source offering myself. That and all these stupid monitors are matte. I'm hanging onto my full glossy SA27950D for now.

Wish MicroCenter had an ASUS G-SYNC ROG Swift monitor on display so you could see it in action. Tempted to purchase one but would hate to have to return a $750 monitor even though they have the best return policy ever.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
From all accounts, most issues with adaptive sync seem to have to do with the scaler units in the panels themselves. Since with GSync, Nvidia makes the scaler, there should be more consistency with the Nvidia product for the time being. I imagine though, that as panels improve, that GSync should not need to be relevant anymore. The only thing that would keep it relevant is Nvidia's unwillingness to allow their video cards to simply use the adaptive sync standard and not their own GSync standard.

Right now, their argument is that they have a better product. And based on what I can see (at least on paper - I've never seen one in person unfortunately), it looks like their manufacturing of the scaler is giving GSync the edge. But over time, I see this argument holding less and less water, as other panel manufacturers get their stuff up to snuff. :)

Personally, I would love to see adaptive sync come up and match GSync one for one, and I would love to see GSync go away. We can thank Nvidia for bringing it to market and showing us how great it can be, but being vendor-locked is never a good position to be in.
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Yep it does appear the issue is linked to the individual scalar and how well it plays with each panel (and how much tuning and QA the panel maker did or didn't do).

I dislike quoting from other forums, but I found these posts from a Nixeus hardware rep helpful.

Peter@Nixeus said:
Overdrive has been working on our NX-VUE24 monitors with Freesync Beta Drivers since day one when we received the very first Freesync drivers last year to start validating our monitors - we just had to fine tune it because it was too strong.

Over Drive was not a major issue during our Adaptive Sync monitor development, so I was a bit confused when reviews came out with it being an issue and I want to make sure all information were made public before I contributed to this thread.

On the monitor development side, AMD did left it up to us as on how we want to implement our choice of monitor hardware and features - including Over Drive. They provide us with recommendations on development - for example emphasizing that we provide legacy support and to include speakers since Freesync supports audio (I wanted to make a DisplayPort only Adaptive Sync Monitor with no speakers).

AMD Freesync Certification is not as lax or easy as it is perceived - we still have to overcome one major Freesync Validation requirement before it can be certified.

At the same time we do our own monitor validation process (unrelated to Adaptive Sync/Freesync) which can take a long time going through several hardware and firmware revisions to make sure we deliver a quality product.

...

I can't release AMD's validation requirements to receive Freesync Certification.

But validation and decision to ship a final product (for any monitor that is Adaptive Sync or regular monitors) is up to us since AMD is not a monitor manufacturer - so core monitor validation was our responsibility as a monitor manufacturer.

We are hoping to ship our monitor before the end of Q2 or early Q3.

...

Based off from my current own experience with AMD, they never pressured me on a ship date or gave me a deadline. I also think they seem to care a lot, maybe too much, on just that one thing left we have been trying to resolve to get certified the past two months. Otherwise our monitor would have shipped earlier in the year.

Also if you are still talking about the ghosting with over drive settings - from my own product development process (as with all previous monitor projects) it was my responsibility to ensure everything in that On Screen Display Menu is working - including the color temperature settings adjustments, brightness adjustments, contrast adjustments, over drive adjustments, etc. For example one of our early firmware revisions had PiP/PnP features but did not work correctly to provide a seamless user experienced so I had that feature removed from the On Screen Display Menu.

...

That is correct - Over Drive has been working in our NX-VUE24 displays since AMD provided us with their first non-public BETA Freesync Drivers last year... Over drive is also working with the current AMD cards and current public BETA Freesync Drivers. During our own validation process when we turned ON Over Drive with Freesync ON - it was too strong and had significant pixel overshoot, but at the time we had other more important bugs (unrelated to Adaptive Sync/Freesync) to resolve at the time to get our monitor to be consumer ready.

When it came time to address the Over Drive performance with Freesync, we consulted with AMD and our scalar partner to fine tune it to the best that the display can handle to minimize both ghosting and pixel overshoot. It was a significant improvement and is no longer an issue. From my own eyes, with Over Drive enabled performance was about on par with other VRR monitors I have to play with.
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Nice post.

AMD seems to be on the ball in this case for this vendor which is good news.
 
I was interested in the acer gsync ips until I seen the price, one hell of a premium for that thing.
 
chrcoluk said:
I was interested in the acer gsync ips until I seen the price, one hell of a premium for that thing.
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You pay to play. It would be nice to have good colors, IPS screen, and motion clarity for $200. It would be nice, but there's no way.

EDIT: And as I'm reading this list - we had just that (minus the IPS screen of course! :) ) with CRT's... Oh well - off topic.
 
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Another thing: find me one non-Overlord/Korean 1440p IPS panel right now that's guaranteed to operate at 144Hz without frameskipping.

Exactly.

Hopefully the issues with MG279Q get sorted out.
 
While in theory, freesync tech should be identical to gsync tech, amd just doesnt sem to have the driver side support to make it identical.

They still need to add:
a duplicative frame ability if the fps drops below the panel's (supported) refresh rate.
a safe way to detect which monitor is attached and what the panel specs are.
crossfire capability. (This is hard)
 
detection is already set. VRR range is reported by EDID.

Crossfire is coming (it took nvidia a couple months for SLI support as well).

Buffered frame is not part of the spec, and never will be. It isnt needed once all the scaler makers and panel OEMs increase the VRR ranges (2hz min for async spec)
 
The Mac said:
Buffered frame is not part of the spec, and never will be. It isnt needed once all the scaler makers and panel OEMs increase the VRR ranges (2hz min for async spec)
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Of course it's needed, below ~30hz LCDs have serious issues. You either do that or switch to traditional v-sync ON/OFF... which is what freesync does now.
 
or you increase the lower range with better sclaers/panels.

its not going to happen.
 
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