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Got Some Air Cooling Q's

R

ralfyboy

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Messages
211
IGNORE THE FIRST FEW POSTS. JUST FOCUS ON LAST POST MADE BY RALFYBOY. FIRST FEW QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED. GO TO PAGE 2.

on a fan controller, ex. vantec nexus 201, if you turn it all the way to the right (clockwise), it is at full speed right? well, is "full speed" the spec of the fan, or does full speed on the controller go past the fan's specs?

let me make it easier to understand my question. let's say i have a Panaflo M1A, and its specs are 32.1cfm at 28dBa. is that the speed it will be running at if i turn it all the way to the right? or does it exceed that?

also, if turned all the way to the left, (counter-clockwise) will it turn off? or will it run really low? if it is the latter, how low? the vantec tornado is one tough b. great for cooling. not so great on the ears. if i were to get a fan controller, is there a certain limit to how slow i can get it? i dont want to get the tornado and think to myself i wont hear it once i lower it on a fan controller, and then it only slows down till where i can hear it at 46dBa (it runs at 56dBa) i expect to be able to get it down to 30dBa at least.

ok, now for another question...

i see people post "oh, if you dont want it so loud, just lower it to 7v or 5v" how do you do that? i just plug in my fans to my mobo or my power supply. i dont know how to adjust speeds. is this is a program? is it the way you connect? i dont know how at all you would go about changing this.

ok, now for another question...

i have 4 Cooler Master Green LED fans that run at 32.11cfm and 25dBa. i noticed the Panaflo M1A run at the same cfm, but they run at 28dBa. which is better? i know less noise = better, but that's not what i'm asking. should i go with the company, panaflo, that seems to have a better following, or stick with what SEEMS to be a better fan? anyone have an opinion on this? if i find out enough about the fan controllers, i could even get the H1B's and just lower them.

ok, now for another question...

for an overclocker (just learned how to overclock) what would be the minimum cfm i should run at? i know for a fact i dont need the 119cfm of the tornado. is it 40 or 45cfm? higher?
(edit* i mean on a cpu)

ok, one last question (for now)....

for a while, i thought the yellow wire is what enables rpm sensoring. does it? not sure if i'm an idiot or what. just got that from what i saw.


if i could get a few of these questions answered, it would be really great! i plan to make my 6800GT stable at Ultra speeds (maybe higher) with an NV Silencer 5 and oc my 3400+ ClawHammer from 2.2 to at least 2.4 (hopefully 2.5) when i move to my new Kingwin case, so i need adequate cooling. i also dont want what is not necessary. (like the tornado at full speed)

i'm looking for 4 80mm fans to replace my cooler masters, and i'm also looking for a 92mm fan that will go on a new XP-90 i will be getting.

maybe if my questions are answered, it could help other n00bs like myself.
 
I would wager that most fanbuses would simply regulate voltage to the line, thereby slowing (or raising) the fan's speed
 
ralfyboy said:
on a fan controller, ex. vantec nexus 201, if you turn it all the way to the right (clockwise), it is at full speed right? well, is "full speed" the spec of the fan, or does full speed on the controller go past the fan's specs?
Click to expand...

All fans are set to run at 12V, which is the most voltage a molex connector can put out. Since your fan bus takes power from the molex connector, similarily, the most power it can put out is 12 volts. In short, when you put it to full speed, it is 12 volts, ie within specs of your fan.

ralfyboy said:
let me make it easier to understand my question. let's say i have a Panaflo M1A, and its specs are 32.1cfm at 28dBa. is that the speed it will be running at if i turn it all the way to the right? or does it exceed that?
Click to expand...

it will run at 32.1 cfm @ 28dBa, although I would just use these numbers as a reference, not exact numbers.

ralfyboy said:
also, if turned all the way to the left, (counter-clockwise) will it turn off? or will it run really low? if it is the latter, how low? the vantec tornado is one tough b. great for cooling. not so great on the ears. if i were to get a fan controller, is there a certain limit to how slow i can get it? i dont want to get the tornado and think to myself i wont hear it once i lower it on a fan controller, and then it only slows down till where i can hear it at 46dBa (it runs at 56dBa) i expect to be able to get it down to 30dBa at least.
Click to expand...

When you turn it all the way to the left, it can either turn off or go down to 5 volts. My Fanbus goes down to 5 volts, and then Off, some just go down to 5 volts, you would have to check your specs.

yes, there is a certain limit to how low you can go. ie, my 92mm Panaflo can't go down to 5 volts sometimes, otherwise there is not enough voltage to get the fan going, however if I push the fan, at 5 volts it can keep going. In short, it depends on the weight of the mangets, and the strength of a field in order to get it in motion. All I can say here is it depends on the fan, although It's safe to say 7 volts is ok for almost all fans out there. So if you 7 volt mod your tornado, and it works and is near 30dBa, then you'll be fine with a fanbus.

ralfyboy[i see people post "oh said:
What a fanbus is doing is lowering the voltage of your fan, so like I mentioned, you can 7 volt or 5 volt mod it. In order to do this, you have to physically modify the molex connectors for your fan. Go here to check out a tutorial on how to 5 and 7 volt mod your molex connectors for your fans. http://www.dslwebserver.com/main/fr_index.html?/main/5-7-adapter.html


ralfyboy said:
i have 4 Cooler Master Green LED fans that run at 32.11cfm and 25dBa. i noticed the Panaflo M1A run at the same cfm, but they run at 28dBa. which is better? i know less noise = better, but that's not what i'm asking. should i go with the company, panaflo, that seems to have a better following, or stick with what SEEMS to be a better fan? anyone have an opinion on this? if i find out enough about the fan controllers, i could even get the H1B's and just lower them.
Click to expand...

Less noise usually means a better fan, but 3dBa is well within margin of error, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. That said, I would stick with the Panflo's, since they are generally regarded as as higher quality fan, whereas coolermaster products are generally your budget product that works well for the money, but isn't quite as reliable.

ralfyboy said:
for an overclocker (just learned how to overclock) what would be the minimum cfm i should run at? i know for a fact i dont need the 119cfm of the tornado. is it 40 or 45cfm? higher?
Click to expand...

There's no set answer to this, obviously the higher the cfm, the cooler you're going to run, but there's also the heatsink factor. My rule of thumb is I'll run as low a cfm fan as I can in order to keep the temperatures within an acceptable range. As you can see, this can vary from person to person. Therefore, I'd say if it requires a 119cfm tornado fan in order to obtain a certain overclock, and your happy with that, then stick with it, but if you can't stand the noise, and when your fan is at 40cfm, it can only do half the overclock, then you're going to have to choose. Noise or overclock? There is no standard, merely compromise.

ralfyboy said:
for a while, i thought the yellow wire is what enables rpm sensoring. does it? not sure if i'm an idiot or what. just got that from what i saw.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's right.


ralfyboy said:
if i could get a few of these questions answered, it would be really great! i plan to make my 6800GT stable at Ultra speeds (maybe higher) with an NV Silencer 5 and oc my 3400+ ClawHammer from 2.2 to at least 2.4 (hopefully 2.5) when i move to my new Kingwin case, so i need adequate cooling. i also dont want what is not necessary. (like the tornado at full speed)

i'm looking for 4 80mm fans to replace my cooler masters, and i'm also looking for a 92mm fan that will go on a new XP-90 i will be getting.

maybe if my questions are answered, it could help other n00bs like myself.
Click to expand...

Good idea, let us know how it goes, you have good products. However, if you can get the XP-120, that'd be better. The larger the fan, the better the noise to cfm ratio. Good luck with it.
Click to expand...
 
ralfyboy said:
thanx a bunch! but just one last question

what is rpm sensoring for?
Click to expand...

It is so you can watch the rpm (revolutions per minute) of your fan. There's a two-fold effect when you do this.

1. You can see that your fan IS running, and some motherboards actually will not boot if the CPU fan header doesn't detect a fan RPM reading, or sometimes if you have a motherboard monitoring software (ie Motherboard Monitor, or Asus Probe, or MSI QFAN), it will watch your fan RPM, and if it falls below a certain threshold, it will let you know by beeping and warning you. For some people, if your fan dies, your system dies, so this is important.

2. You can watch your RPM based on your Fanbus setting, thus allowing you to gauge your cfm versus your noise level. So say you have ur fanbus at some setting, and you see it's at 1500 RPM, and u think that's acceptable, then you know now that 1500 RPM is a good speed for your fan, because it's silent, and keeps ur CPU a certain temperature. of course this changes depending on you.

In the end, the RPM sensoring just allows more safe guards in order to protect your investment since your fan is inevitably cooling something, and gives you some feedback as to whether it's on or not.
 
tachometer?

uhhmm.... got a few more questions.... sorry

on a fan controller, you can run it at 12v or 7v or 5v or whatever, but is that all? there are no incriments inbetween those?

also, i know how a fan controller works now, but how does a fanbus work?

and you can only check your RPM through a software that detects the RPM through your motherboard right? you cant read your RPM if you have your fan connected to a 4-pin slot on your psu right?
 
to your last post, ralfyboy:

most fan controllers have a dial that varies smoothly between the lowest setting and the highest. yes, you can set the voltage to intermediate values, depending on where you turn the dial to.

a fan bus is a bunch of fan controllers put side by side. it lets you control several fans seperately.

some fans have an RPM header, so that you can power the fan from the PSU and feed the RPM info to the motherboard for monitoring. other don't have the header. yours probably don't have the header, but they might.

and, just a general bit of trivia:

the nexus fan controllers, and probably many others as well, use pulse width modulation, as opposed to directly damping down the voltage. the voltage being supplied to the fan very quickly cycles between about zero and about 12. less wastefull, less heat to deal with. the net result is the same, though.

don't worry ralf, the point is that if you turn the dial one way, the fan turns faster, and the other way it gets slower. it opperation is simple, so the details aren't that important.
 
i'm having trouble picking out panaflos. i know now that i want 4 80mm H1B fans for my case, but panaflos dont come with tails. you have to buy em seperate. so i was looking at the tails and i notice they dont have the yellow RPM wire. how are you supposed to check the RPM?

and is this what you are talking about?
http://www.frozencpu.com/cab-09.html
 
ralfyboy said:
i'm having trouble picking out panaflos. i know now that i want 4 80mm H1B fans for my case, but panaflos dont come with tails. you have to buy em seperate. so i was looking at the tails and i notice they dont have the yellow RPM wire. how are you supposed to check the RPM?

and is this what you are talking about?
http://www.frozencpu.com/cab-09.html
Click to expand...

Most Panaflos, if not all, do not support RPM sensing. I don't recall any of mine ever having RPM sensing.
 
the "BX" flavour panaflo fans support RPM monitoring.

in all seriousness, though, just use a fan controller that does not go lower than 5 volts (like the vantec nexus 305) and the actual RPM readings of the fans do not matter all that much, so long as the fans are running, and you temperatures are reasonable.

in that case you can get the 4 pin molex tail option on 2 of the fans, and the 3 pin tail on the other two.

although vantec may have changed the packaging since i purchased my nexus 305 controller, mine came with two 3-pin connections and 2 4 pin connections.
 
the vantec 201 has 4 3pin connections. i can just order all of em with 3 pin.
guess i dont really need RPM sensoring for case fans

but what about the cpu fan? i was planning on getting the panaflo h1 92mm for it, but i want reassurance with the RPM. dont want my cpu to fry.
 
for the cpu fan............i hate to say it, but the delta screamers and vantec tornadoes make REALLY good CPU fans, and they DO have RPM monitoring...............

if you are getting a fan controller, you can run that cpu fan at abot 5 volts, and have the RPM monitoring to make sure that the thing never stops.

i have my old SP-97 heatsink in my sister's machine, with the tornado, and damped down using the nexus 301 so that it runs at 2400 RPM (compared to stock 5000 RPM), with reasonable noise levels.
 
My panaflo 92mm h1bx has RPM monitoring. Got it from jab-tech for $7.99, got it in two days.
 
that's the site! jab-tech! i had been there before, and i wanted to go back, but i forgot the name of the place. thanx!

anyway, for sure, i'm settled on 4 80mm H1BX Panflos and 1 92mm H1BX Panflo and XP-90 Heatsink...

i dont think i want the nexus fan controller anymore. i want a controller where i will be able to set all 4 case fans at the same time to the same speed. that, or a fan controller that only does 12v, 7v, 5v, and nothing inbetween. then i wouldnt mind just turning all the knobs to each little spot.

i also need a controller for the CPU fan.

so, i need a controller(s) for the 4 case fans and 1 CPU fan, and i want to be able to monitor the RPM's. it's not so important on the case fans because nothing will be damaged if one goes out or anything, but i definately need RPM sensoring for the CPU fan as i will be overclocking and dont wanna fry my 3400+ ClawHammer.

does anybody have a solution to my cooling problem?
 
one strategy would be to stick with that nexus 301 you were looking at, get the panaflo H1BX with a 3 pin tail, get that "3-pin to 4-pin Adapter w/ RPM Monitoring" you linked to earlier so that you can send the RPM info to the motherboard, and power the fan off of the fan controller.

you would then have your two intake fans with the four pin tail, on the second channel of the fan controller, and your two exaust fans with the four pin tail on the third.

the controller actually comes with addapters so that you can plug fans with either a 3 pin tail or a 4 pin tail into it.

hey, count the two sound sensitive CCFL tubes that it come with as a stylish bonus!
 
oh..............well, you are quite correct that i was conused about the one that you were planning on getting.

yeah, that one does have 4 3 pin connector on the unit itself, however it comes with 2 three-pin fan to 4 pin molex adaptor cables, and 2 3pin to 3 pin fan cable extensions.
 
DFI Daishi said:
the "BX" flavour panaflo fans support RPM monitoring.

in all seriousness, though, just use a fan controller that does not go lower than 5 volts (like the vantec nexus 305) and the actual RPM readings of the fans do not matter all that much, so long as the fans are running, and you temperatures are reasonable.

in that case you can get the 4 pin molex tail option on 2 of the fans, and the 3 pin tail on the other two.

although vantec may have changed the packaging since i purchased my nexus 305 controller, mine came with two 3-pin connections and 2 4 pin connections.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected. I'd just never seen them before.

Then again, I never cared about the RPM monitoring to much, so I never really tried to find Panaflos that had it. I was just looking for quiet and decent airflow when I was buying.
 
alright. i think i found the perfect cooling solution.

i was looking for a BayBus that would support at least 5 fans. i did. it is only 12/7/off though. i wanted it to be 12/5/off. i came up with another idea though. i could get the medium Panaflos instead of the highs, and so the mediums on 7v will run almost the same as the highs on a 5v.

this is what i found

i'm not gonna worry about rpm monitoring on the 4 80mm case fans, but i do need it for the 92mm cpu fan. so now this leaves me with my last questions of this thread....

does this support RPM monitoring?
i see 3 wires. 2 red, and 1 black. i'm wierded out.
if it does, then i can get 5 of em, discard the rpm wire on 4 of em, and get rpm wire on the 92mm and somehow get it to the motherboard for rpm monitoring.
if it doesnt, then i just need to focus on finding one tail that does. it also poses another question though.

if it doesnt support rpm monitoring, then how would i connect 3 cables to the 2 cable bay bus?

if anybody could find me some tails for my panalfos, that would be great.

nuther question, i heard 7v mods put a lot of stress on your psu? is it true?

one LAST question, if i find the tails, and i hook em up and they work fine with the baybus, i still need a way to connect that wire to the mobo. would it be easy to do something like this premade wire?

i'm just focusing on the one yellow wire. would the job be easy to do, and would it work?
 
that tail has three pins, so the tail supports RPM monitoring.

however, you have to make sure that the fan is the "BX" variety of panaflo, or the fan itself will not have the hardware inside of it to monitor the RPMs.

my panaflo 120 mm U1A fans, which are NOT the BX variety, have the three pins on the fans, but the RPM pin gives no signal.

7 volt mods only put stress on your PSU when you forget the key detail that you need somthing else connected to the same daisychain of wires coming from the PSU as the fan you are 7 volting. you need an optical drive or something similar, otherwise you are going below the minimum current rating for your 5 volt line, since you are actually going down into negative numbers.

some PSUs will just shut down if you 7 volts something, and forget to have something else on the same line 5 volt line drawing current............
 
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