First time server build looking for advice

[Rogue_Apprentice]

I need some advice on assembling a file server for a small business. I have been going through upgrading/replacing the PCs at a local Tool & Die shop and they have recently asked me to give them a quote for a file server. They are currently renting server space and would like to lose that bill every month. While I am more than comfortable building PCs, I don't have much experience on the server end of things. Here is what it has to do and my budget.


Budget $4000
Primary use- File server
PCs on network - 12 + 10 mills
Storage 6TB with scalability to 20TB

My basic question is should I just use consumer grade stuff to build this or should I stick with server stuff. My thought was just to build a X58 or Sandy based machine with a couple good controller cards and call it a day. I plan on installing Win Server 2008 on 2 SSDs in RAID 1. I am unsure about how much CPU horsepower I need for something like this. I don't need to spend all that money if I don't have to either. I would much rather come in WAY below that #.

Thanks in advance for you help.

 

[Rogue_Apprentice]

Anyone???

 

[ripken204]

get server hardware, especially for that budget, and especially for a business

depending on the company, you might be better off buying a real server from dell/hp instead of building one, mainly for the warranty and support, unless you want to be on a call at 2am when the server you built fails

if this is only for serving files, then you really don't need a very strong cpu.
how large are the files? small files, very large?
you should also make sure that everything is gigabit.

and why do you need SSDs for the OS drive?
I am not sure how windows servers work, but if you are using the server primarily as a fileserver, then the OS drive would rarely be touched. so SSDs are a waste of money in most cases, unless you have money to waste.

 

[beautypc]

what type of files for the server and typical size of the files?

 

[ekuest]

i have been messing with an IBM M1015 raid controller card for a week now. its a server pull and i am using it on a sandy bridge build. it has been giving me problems nonstop and is a huge pain. not sure how much of that is my inexperience and how much is the card, but i would say stick with server stuff and you will have a much more enjoyable experience.

 

[mwroobel]

I need some advice on assembling a file server for a small business. I have been going through upgrading/replacing the PCs at a local Tool & Die shop and they have recently asked me to give them a quote for a file server. They are currently renting server space and would like to lose that bill every month. While I am more than comfortable building PCs, I don't have much experience on the server end of things. Here is what it has to do and my budget.


Budget $4000
Primary use- File server
PCs on network - 12 + 10 mills
Storage 6TB with scalability to 20TB

My basic question is should I just use consumer grade stuff to build this or should I stick with server stuff. My thought was just to build a X58 or Sandy based machine with a couple good controller cards and call it a day. I plan on installing Win Server 2008 on 2 SSDs in RAID 1. I am unsure about how much CPU horsepower I need for something like this. I don't need to spend all that money if I don't have to either. I would much rather come in WAY below that #.

Thanks in advance for you help.

Do yourself a BIG favor and purchase enterprise-grade hardware with the support and reliability that goes with it. Something with redundant power, ILM for remote management, proper cooling and not worrying 2 years down the line that you can get an identical replacement part (motherboard, for example) because it isn't made anymore. Something like an HP 360p (more entry level) or DL370 G6 (more powerful, expandable) to start with, and is very expandable would be a good start. There's and old saying that "No one ever got fired for buying IBM". If you build out some consumer equipment and it falls flat on its face for whatever reason, you will be the first person people start questioning.

 

[JJ Johnson]

Have to ask: Will this thing be standalone? They don't have a Windows network with other domain controllers, file, or print servers?

I agree with mwroobel. You'll be doing both yourself and the company a big favor by spending the money instead of doing it yourself. Do you really want to be the guy keeping a company with 10 or 20 employees all standing around while you troubleshoot a memory or motherboard problem? Not me. Not unless I'm being paid a LOT to do so.

For hardware, buy a Dell or (better) an HP server, with a good on-site service contract. It should be within that budget, you won't have to support it yourself, and the company will have a reliable server with good on-site support. If you do this type of work often (or see it in your future) become a reseller with Dell and HP and you'll get a small percentage of the sale, or a discount that you can mark up.

 

[Rogue_Apprentice]

Thanks guys. You have echoed the same advice everyone has given me so far. I am meeting with the client this week to go over exactly what it is they are trying to do and get some more details but it sounds like to me that they are solving one problem (server rent) and creating potentially 20 more.

After researching and reading your thoughts I am leaning towards just having them buy a pre- built machine. To answer in more detail what it would be doing, it would be simply used to store CAD data and have that data be accessible from any of the 12 PCs in house to be opened with a single CAD program. No web hosting, no print server, just data.

 

[Trepidati0n]

Thanks guys. You have echoed the same advice everyone has given me so far. I am meeting with the client this week to go over exactly what it is they are trying to do and get some more details but it sounds like to me that they are solving one problem (server rent) and creating potentially 20 more.

After researching and reading your thoughts I am leaning towards just having them buy a pre- built machine. To answer in more detail what it would be doing, it would be simply used to store CAD data and have that data be accessible from any of the 12 PCs in house to be opened with a single CAD program. No web hosting, no print server, just data.

Then you really don't need a super enterprise server. Just a good box from a major OEM with the appropriate backup.

 

[stevebaynet]

IMHO, the issue here will be file availability and integrity. For a machine shop, the CAD files will be the driving force behind the company, its what all those CNC mills will use to create their product. What happens to business operations if this server goes down? or if you store your data on a raid5 and two disks dump before you can replace them?

The server itself doesn't need to be the beefiest latest greatest, but i would definitely spend some time on the storage part. Specially if they want to be able to scale to 20TB. Things to think about:

- What type of raid setup do you plan to use
- How long can data be unavailable in the event of a problem with the server
- What backup scheme do you plan to have in place in case data is lost

The handy thing about going with a VAR to get a pre-built server is that their sales engineers should be able to take those concerns and help you package a solution that will fit their needs. There is still money to be made on your end as they will need someone to set it up and occasionally do maintenance on it.

 

[hotcrandel]

A few tips;

1. Make sure your budget includes backup for all aforementioned data; tape, disk to disk, whatever.
2. Build it by hand you would get the best bang for the buck.
3. I'd suggest an OS you or whomever is comfortable supporting it. Windows, Solaris, whatever.
4. Include good antivirus.

 

[vr.]

It's interesting how quickly people lose site of 'small business' and slot the 'nice to have' items into the 'must have' slot and blow any concept of a managable budget. $4000 for 1 piece of office equipment is a huge dent to a small company.

Small businesses don't *need* ILM and they certainly don't *need* Enterprise grade hardware.

What you do need to do is let their business 'need' drive the robustness of hardware. Let their risk assessment asses what they're willing to tolerate. E.g. if they're out in corn field county with no local PC resources for hundreds of miles, then something with 4 hour response might make sense.

An example from my past when I was working as a service tech for a CAD reseller, one of the tool & die shops I worked with needed a file server. But by asking just a few questions during discovery, it was uncovered that the CNC devices hooking to their file server all had local storage and CNC guys would basically work locally. From time to time, they'd drop their data to the file server because they didn't want to lose significant changes they'd made to programming. Later on a simple copy job was set up to grab their data.

When these guys started shopping for a "server" a few trips to the big player websites returned proprietary solutions using Intel RAID. They had to ask themselves, how much sense did it make to buy a box with a name brand on the outside they wanted to run till it dropped vs generic hardware that can be swapped out? They went with generic PC stuff for 10+ years until they grew to about a hundred CNC's with dozens of designers / office workers dropping data to their file server.

Come to think of it, even the larger shops with GM/Chrysler/Ford contracts who had their own IT staff even used whitebox hardware...

For your description, a small OS volume mirrored with a data volume, mirrored is probably more than adequate. I doubt they've got anywhere near even 1 TB of CNC data. You've got to guesstimate how much data they'll be churning concurrently (which is fun) but ultimately I'll bet that 'server' will sit idle most of the time.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and beware of scope creep! "We've got a server, let's host our website in house too" along with every other marketing feature they've been pitched at trade shows that requires a "server" they'll try to sign up for. These are shop monkeys, they don't know any better.

 

[Rogue_Apprentice]

Thanks again guys. Keep it coming. vr. they currently have 4tb of cad data. They already have an off site back up in place as well. All they want is something in house that they can do exactly what you described in your post.