Finally CrossFire benchmarks and pics!

What i like is how good the X850s are doing agianst the 6800Us in SLI. People tend to forget this is ATIs first Gaming Multi GPU Solution and while SLi right now may be better you have to give Cross fire a while to mature before you can just name call. Same with the benches on the X1800s. The Cards are pretty new with first gen Driver Support so give them some time and they may get better. For the X1800s I am specificly refering to the X1800XL Benchs vs the 7800GT which is a pretty worthless bench since the only test was 3DMark.
 
And on that note...who else remembers how ATI refused to support the MAXX on Win2K, saying that they couldn't get it to work.
 
Endurancevm said:
Well lookie, the X850's are close to the 7800GTX's.....
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Not really, I'd go back and look again. In almost all the tests the 7800GTX is quite a bit faster in SLi. Crossfire is very competetive with a single 7800GTX, but not two of them.
 
ShuttleLuv said:
^ They weren't called GPU's back then....iirc. :D
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Semantics, but anyway...

I remember hanging around on the [H] forums waiting for the MAXX reviews to come up. Everyone though it was going to be the second coming of SLI Voodoo. Oops.
 
fallguy said:
He said multi "GPU", not multi "core". Its not the same thing.
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Edjumacate me. How is a "GPU" different from a core and why should the institutional knowledge ATi gained from MAXX not apply to the CrossFire setup?

Note: I'm being somewhat facetious in these posts. I realize that there are vast differences between these cores (and yes, a GPU is still a core) and I doubt that many of the MAXX crew are still on the good ship ATi.
 
That motherboard is pretty weak - no PCIe 1x slots! You can't even use the secondary slot if you only have one video card.
 
LabRat said:
Edjumacate me. How is a "GPU" different from a core and why should the institutional knowledge ATi gained from MAXX not apply to the CrossFire setup?

Note: I'm being somewhat facetious in these posts. I realize that there are vast differences between these cores (and yes, a GPU is still a core) and I doubt that many of the MAXX crew are still on the good ship ATi.
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The only way the MAXX worked was in AFR, things have come a long long way. Should we start to compare IQ of the Geforce 3 to the Geforce 7 now and wonder why the image quality has gotten shittier?

and you'll never find ATI referring to any of their cores as GPUs.
 
Shifra said:
The only way the MAXX worked was in AFR, things have come a long long way. Should we start to compare IQ of the Geforce 3 to the Geforce 7 now and wonder why the image quality has gotten shittier?

and you'll never find ATI referring to any of their cores as GPUs.
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Unless you look on ATI's website, here for example. :eek:

I think Labrat's point is valid. There's no reason why ATI should not learn from the MAXX card days, whether you consider the cards a sucess or mistake. Others have made comments about the difficulty of setting up a crossfire rig- not that it'll matter to the type of people who will put out the bux for such a setup. These people will have no problem reinstalling their drivers, and shuffling cards around to the "right" slot. The bugs that were seen could be simply easily fixed driver issues, or much more serious. We'll have to see if future driver releases fix them. Consider, however, that ATI has had at least 6 months to iron out these bugs- and now we have a release and they're still there. To me, that doesn't give me a lot of confidence they'll all be fixed in the next few months.
 
:( I am very sad about how ATI has set CrossFire up for the fall like this.

Yes its faster than 6800U SLI, but DUHHHHH, a single X850XT is faster than a single 6800U... Besides its not faster than a 7800GTX on average and when it was faster the GTX pushed better quality.

Creating a "SLI Killer" aimed at killing SLI on a generation of card (6800) that has already been replaced (7800) is a stupid move.

The only way CrossFire will prove it self now is on the X1800!
But they really need to fix some of the problems first.
 
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20050926/index.html

toms hardware has an article up, showing the X850 CrossFire beating 7800GTX's in SLI on a few games. This could be an interesting generation, folks. I know HL2 has a tendency to favor ATI cards, but tom's site has the X850's spanking the nVidia cards across the board on that game. Seems like the sites have a back-and-forth going on between the two companies.
 
Crossfire is dissapointing more because:

1) ATI's Linux drivers continue to suck. I realize that Nvidia's SLI probably doesn't work in Linux either, but at least I can install a single card properly.

2) 60Hz @ 1600x1200?
 
If I didn't have a GTX and the 60 hz limit wasn't there, I'd be excited. :)
 
PNut12345 said:
http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20050926/index.html

toms hardware has an article up, showing the X850 CrossFire beating 7800GTX's in SLI on a few games. This could be an interesting generation, folks. I know HL2 has a tendency to favor ATI cards, but tom's site has the X850's spanking the nVidia cards across the board on that game. Seems like the sites have a back-and-forth going on between the two companies.
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Wow, I quit Tom's Hardware long before the X1k was a twinkle in ATI's eye. Unfortunately, I followed the link anyway. Interesting that under the ATI setup, they list the FX-55 and FX-57, but only the FX-55 under the SLI setup? Hmm. Also, I know there are a large number of people who will be buying an SLI/Crossfire rig so they can play UT2004 with no AA at 1024x768 res. :rolleyes:
Also absent is what drivers versions were used + what was the core clock of the 7800 card? Shoddy Shoddy review. Now I remember why I quit giving them pageloads. :(
 
yevaud said:
Wow, I quit Tom's Hardware long before the X1k was a twinkle in ATI's eye. Unfortunately, I followed the link anyway. Interesting that under the ATI setup, they list the FX-55 and FX-57, but only the FX-55 under the SLI setup? Hmm. Also, I know there are a large number of people who will be buying an SLI/Crossfire rig so they can play UT2004 with no AA at 1024x768 res. :rolleyes:
Also absent is what drivers versions were used + what was the core clock of the 7800 card? Shoddy Shoddy review. Now I remember why I quit giving them pageloads. :(
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qft.

i wondered about that FX-57 thing. the nvidia cards used were reference designs, so 430/1200 is implied
 
Well the real test is 2x X1800XTs.... So Im not so disappointed yet. 60Hz blows though... and sounds really confusing to me, Unlike SLi.
 
Shifra said:
...Should we start to compare IQ of the Geforce 3 to the Geforce 7 now and wonder why the image quality has gotten shittier?

...
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Yes.

I miss my GF3--damn nice card for its time. I still have my 8500 from that era in an HTPC. Nice card too, but it was also a bit late to the party, wasn't it?
 
Josh_B said:
Crossfire is dissapointing more because:

1) ATI's Linux drivers continue to suck. I realize that Nvidia's SLI probably doesn't work in Linux either, but at least I can install a single card properly.

2) 60Hz @ 1600x1200?
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3. 14x max AA compared to 16x max AA for NV SLI
4. Need for a master card that can only be purchased from ATI.com
5. driver issues from [H]


ATi really criticized NV for not implementing the mix and match card thing but look here, you need a master card and a slave card to work. whoa! .

Btw i cannot wait for NV SLI 2 and the improvements it will bring to the table.
 
Possible web names for this "tech":
1. Crapfire
2. Missfire
3. Crossfiring Blanks

I've known about this stuff (the problems) for a long time, can't believe they actually brought it to market like this!

What the heck were they thinking?

"OK, well, no one with a CRT can use it, even LCDs are limited to 16X12, the motherboards are subpar, and they need a dongle! Can we screw this up more? Think guys! External power supply? Only runs in DOS? What about......oh! A Master and Slave card setup! That will screw them up!"

:rolleyes:
 
Rollo said:
"OK, well, no one with a CRT can use it, even LCDs are limited to 16X12, the motherboards are subpar, and they need a dongle! Can we screw this up more? Think guys! External power supply? Only runs in DOS? What about......oh! A Master and Slave card setup! That will screw them up!"

:rolleyes:
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Ahahah! Don't forget--you still can't buy it. Even with last generation's tech.

My prediction: they'll be about as effective as ASUS trying to release those dual-GPU vid cards--by the time they finish working on one, the next generation will be out to market.
 
Zinn said:
Ahahah! Don't forget--you still can't buy it. Even with last generation's tech.

My prediction: they'll be about as effective as ASUS trying to release those dual-GPU vid cards--by the time they finish working on one, the next generation will be out to market.
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Hmmm. That's a pretty good point.
 
Normally I'd come up with soemthing in defense for ATi, but right about now they're in a cell touching their toes w/ bubba up behind 'em... Kinda sucks for them, eh?
 
Project_2501 said:
Normally I'd come up with soemthing in defense for ATi, but right about now they're in a cell touching their toes w/ bubba up behind 'em... Kinda sucks for them, eh?
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Brand loyalty astonishes me. I see no reason for it. Simply buy the best product at the time, in the price range you can afford. ATi and nVidia have their shares of driver cheating, drivers that suck, and drivers that rock. Both companies are fabless semi-conductor companies who contract out all the card building to someone else.

ATi's cards and most of the name brand nVidia cards are excellent quality and offer good performance, along with strong reliability. ATi however, has not been doing so hot in the availability department and hasn't been cutting it in the performance department lately for two reasons, they haven't released a competitor to the 7800GTX yet, and they've not lowered the price of the previous X800 line to a point where it at least made a good price vs. performance win against any of nVidia's last gen, with the exception of possibly the X800XL vs. the 6800GT.

ATi should have dropped the price of the X850XT-PE to a price point where it would compete against 6800GT's and Ultra's. The 6800 series cards have really fallen in price since the 7800GTX came out, and if ATi were to drop the X800 line that low in price, they could have moved more units. People would have bought them for their value as a single card solution now. With the possibility of Crossfire in future upgrades.

Instead the X850XT retails for almost the same amount of money as the 7800GTX's MSRP. No one who ever did their research could ignore the value of the 7800GTX/GT, especially when you consider the cards are being sold for well UNDER MSRP. Anyone who still bought the ATi card was either prejuduced against nVidia for some reason, or was a complete moron who didn't research their purchasing decision at all. They payed more for less by doing so.

Even people who prefer ATi for their drivers or whatever, had to nod twords nVidia for the sheer performance of the 7800GTX,. and to a degree, SLi for what it could do that ATi had no answer for. Many people wanted to upgrade to a higher end card, sometimes for building a new PCI-E system and sometimes for top end performance. Many bought nVidia that wouldn't have, had ATi had a closely competetive solution. Even if it was close and not actually faster. Instead, ATi failed to deliver, and many seeking better performance than what a single X800 series card could offer, went with nVidia this round, because it was the logical, choice, for both value and performance.

I like ATi, really I do. I hope ATi can deliver a Crossfire solution, with R520 cores that is almost EXACTLY the same performance as nVidia's solution, at the same price. This will make the market competetive again, and bring everyone of us a choice.

A choice where, neither option is a wrong one or a bad choice. Right now, Crossfire isn't available, and the X850XT-PE's (even in Crossfire mode) don't match a SLi 7800GTX setup, which costs less to purchase and can be bought at any retail or online outlet.

A single 7800GTX matches Crossfire X850XT's, and the X800's cost more? That's a bad choice for anyone looking to buy. That leaves them only with nVidia, whether they like it or not. Which that kind of situation doesn't lend itself to a market where technology grows and changes. It causes the market, and products to become stagnant and lame.
 
Sir-Fragalot said:
It causes the market, and products to become stagnant and lame.
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Creative Labs anyone?

But I agree with what you mean about brand loyalty, I only have this X850XT PE in my computer because my dad gave it to me, which was bought 2 months before the release of the 7800xx serise of cards. I have been an ATI-!!!!!! of sorts in the past I suppose, but there's really no excuse for this. Now I want a 3800+ X2 and a 7800gtx, and I'd be a happy camper, and maybe a better case...

At any rate, ATi doesn't make sense, unless you need something for ~$200, in which case the X800GTO is the good product to buy. Somehow midrange doesn't do it for me though.
 
Project_2501 said:
Creative Labs anyone?

But I agree with what you mean about brand loyalty, I only have this X850XT PE in my computer because my dad gave it to me, which was bought 2 months before the release of the 7800xx serise of cards. I have been an ATI-!!!!!! of sorts in the past I suppose, but there's really no excuse for this. Now I want a 3800+ X2 and a 7800gtx, and I'd be a happy camper, and maybe a better case...

At any rate, ATi doesn't make sense, unless you need something for ~$200, in which case the X800GTO is the good product to buy. Somehow midrange doesn't do it for me though.
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Creative Labs is a FINE example of what I am talking about. For the longest time, before 64Bit Windows XP came out, if you wanted to download an entire driver for a Audigy card, you were SOL. They didn't have anything but updaters on their site. No full installs, and for awhile you had to download and install several updates. You couldn't just grab the latest one. It had pre-requisite driver updates you had to install first. So, if you didn't have the original CD,. you were screwed. I emailed Creative about this and thier excuse was, "We don't have enough drive space on our FTP server to have complete driver sets out there."

I found that BS answer, completely unacceptable. Of course I run 64Bit XP now, and they do have complete drivers for that. Still, that was a BS answer. Since Creative Labs has no real competetion, they can get away with that.

Prey this doesn't happen to the video card industry. It used to be this way with CPU's between Intel and everyone else. Everything else was a cheap knock off CPU that used the same motherboard, and totally sucked ass, because the other companies had to spend time copying Intel CPU's and weren't free to innovate on their own. AMD changed all that. It's a good thing.
 
hmmm... Made in Canada and Japan still gets it it first. lol ;)
 
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