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Eizo Foris FS2331
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dowant120hz
Gawd
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Tup3x
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I see.
poindexter
Weaksauce
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I'm considering buying a refurbished fs2331 after returning a Dell U2412M due to PWM flicker/eyestrain.
Are any of the fs2331 owners here sensitive to backlight flicker/PWM? If so, does the fs2331 cause problems for you?
Thanks
Are any of the fs2331 owners here sensitive to backlight flicker/PWM? If so, does the fs2331 cause problems for you?
Thanks
poindexter
Weaksauce
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Bumping in hopes someone can answer this question.
I for one can answer your question.
I had the dell u2412m. It carried outstanding picture quality in games, ecpecially in game mode, but I couldn't stand its reverse ghosting or backlight flicker or whatever it was, that was making it impossible for me to play games for more than 30-50mins without a headache or starting feeling kinda dizzy.
Then I got an asus 120hz tn - great monitor for online shooters, but for the rest of the games and else it pretty much sucked due to the known tn panel gamma shift and so then I got the eizo fs2331, and while playing bf3 it is not the most pleasant activity on this monitor due to the input lag when the v-sync is enabled and also ghosting, or due to tearing if you disable the vsync which makes the monitor react on your mouse movements with a lightning speed, actually faster than a 120hz tn panel. Also the aforementioned ghosting doesn't disappear with vsync disabled...
But! It has less ghosting than dell, is definitely faster and has better image quality. I can spend 2-3 hours playing bf3 just like that. <- was not possible with the dell.
If you can afford - get the easypix bundle, it will max the image quality of the display. Although dont be fooled by the eizo's site - the foris models dont support full calibration mode. Gamma correction is strored in a separate .icc profile. Only rgb gain and luminance are getting a true hardware correction!1
I had the dell u2412m. It carried outstanding picture quality in games, ecpecially in game mode, but I couldn't stand its reverse ghosting or backlight flicker or whatever it was, that was making it impossible for me to play games for more than 30-50mins without a headache or starting feeling kinda dizzy.
Then I got an asus 120hz tn - great monitor for online shooters, but for the rest of the games and else it pretty much sucked due to the known tn panel gamma shift and so then I got the eizo fs2331, and while playing bf3 it is not the most pleasant activity on this monitor due to the input lag when the v-sync is enabled and also ghosting, or due to tearing if you disable the vsync which makes the monitor react on your mouse movements with a lightning speed, actually faster than a 120hz tn panel. Also the aforementioned ghosting doesn't disappear with vsync disabled...
But! It has less ghosting than dell, is definitely faster and has better image quality. I can spend 2-3 hours playing bf3 just like that. <- was not possible with the dell.
If you can afford - get the easypix bundle, it will max the image quality of the display. Although dont be fooled by the eizo's site - the foris models dont support full calibration mode. Gamma correction is strored in a separate .icc profile. Only rgb gain and luminance are getting a true hardware correction!1
poindexter
Weaksauce
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Thanks, Murzilka!
I had this monitor a while back and I regret sending it back. The reason was that I wanted more real estate & "cinematic" gaming with 2560 x 1440 resolution and 27". However, I play a lot of dark games and no IPS can really satisfy me in that regard 
Even on my HP zr2740w i had to fiddle around with the brightness to minimize the greyness in the corners but at the same time get sufficient luminosity for the colors to look good.
The eizo foris fs2331 looked amazing out of the box. When i first switched on the monitor I thought it was broken in some way - it was just that dark in the startup screen i couldn´t tell if the monitor was even on. The trailing was pretty distracting unfortunately. No matter how much users of fs2331 tell me they can´t spot the ghosting, I can (especially in older games).
Even on my HP zr2740w i had to fiddle around with the brightness to minimize the greyness in the corners but at the same time get sufficient luminosity for the colors to look good. The eizo foris fs2331 looked amazing out of the box. When i first switched on the monitor I thought it was broken in some way - it was just that dark in the startup screen i couldn´t tell if the monitor was even on. The trailing was pretty distracting unfortunately. No matter how much users of fs2331 tell me they can´t spot the ghosting, I can (especially in older games).
Yeah, there is a lot of ghosting, unfortunately...
For gaming, every tft monitor sucks in its own way. All you can do is pick the sucking that you can live with... I dicided to tolerate ghosting rather than anything else. Though for bf3 or cod I'd rather tolerate something else...
For gaming, every tft monitor sucks in its own way. All you can do is pick the sucking that you can live with... I dicided to tolerate ghosting rather than anything else. Though for bf3 or cod I'd rather tolerate something else...
Yeah you´re right. I´m having a real hard time right now to choose the right monitor. It is like you say, I have to live with something I don´t like. Either ghosting or ips glow or crappy colors and backlight bleed.
I think i might try to order another FS2331 and play around a bit more with the settings. Perhaps I can live with the ghosting if I get used to it. The contrast ratio and especially black level was STELLAR on my foris, much better than screens 3x times more expensive as the foris.
I think i might try to order another FS2331 and play around a bit more with the settings. Perhaps I can live with the ghosting if I get used to it. The contrast ratio and especially black level was STELLAR on my foris, much better than screens 3x times more expensive as the foris.
poindexter
Weaksauce
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Considering I won't be playing games, this monitor sounds like a solid choice for movies and web/productivity.
Have either of you done the PWM flicker hand/waving test on this monitor?
Have either of you done the PWM flicker hand/waving test on this monitor?
It certanly doesn't flicker. I've spent 636 hours looking at it and if it flickered I would've noticed for sure. It has its problems though, well two, actually - 1. ghosting 2. details in dark areas (when the shadow is too dark, but not completely black yet, it shows as black on this monitor.) Quite distracting, actually. So, if there is a chair and a table standing in a very very dark shadow, you wont see them, unlesss you concentrate your view on that dark area trying to distinguish barely visible details. Notice - it is a shadow, im talking about not "darkness"...
I ordered an Eizo Foris FS2331 the other day and hope it will show up today. I remeber really liking the screen apart from the ghosting. Now I´m willing to tolerate it, after using both a TN and an IPS panel and having to deal with their respective weaknessess (bad color accuracy on the TN, useless black levels/IPS glow on the ips).
Hi. New FS2331 owner here, even though it's not as black as my FW900; I'm pretty satisfied by the colors and the overall detail this monitor provides, have not run into shadowing problems but overall I'm satisfied.
The only thing I'm missing is the remote, bought it from Buy.com outlet and while it came with everything else, it did not come with the remote which is needed to control the functions; I have tried contacting Eizo about this but they have not got back to me on how much a remote direct from the factory would cost.
Anybody got any suggestions on how to get a remote for one of these babies? I'm enjoying the monitor but I really would enjoy it further if I had the remote. I hope this post doesn't go unheeded.
EDIT: Called up Eizo; turns out they don't have the remote in stock. For those of you out there I'm wondering, would the remote from the FS2332 be compatible with a FS2331 monitor?
The only thing I'm missing is the remote, bought it from Buy.com outlet and while it came with everything else, it did not come with the remote which is needed to control the functions; I have tried contacting Eizo about this but they have not got back to me on how much a remote direct from the factory would cost.
Anybody got any suggestions on how to get a remote for one of these babies? I'm enjoying the monitor but I really would enjoy it further if I had the remote. I hope this post doesn't go unheeded.
EDIT: Called up Eizo; turns out they don't have the remote in stock. For those of you out there I'm wondering, would the remote from the FS2332 be compatible with a FS2331 monitor?
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braveblade
n00b
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Could you pick up the FS2332 or the korean monitors?
Dark trailing with overdrive on Standard is not that bad. Coming from a 100Hz CRT, I was doing extreme things at first like playing CS with the Paper mode preset to hide it completely - bearable at 6500k & 0 brightness
Gamma shift is noticeable on still pictures if moving them from left to right on the screen is your thing, or comparing pictures side-by-side. Nowhere near "people disappearing" - it's less than 0.2 gamma points loss from center to the sides and that means added detail not loss of.
These are all known, now for something not mentioned before:
- Custom resolutions or refresh rates: OVERDRIVE gets DISABLED!
- 1:1 pixel mapping on the display (No Scaling): OVERDRIVE gets DISABLED!
too bad as it's sharp and accurate vs. blurred GPU scaling
- Enlarged on the display (Aspect Ratio): this one works and the one I always use (on native res has no effect)
sharper than GPU enlarged scaling
Regardless, after 1694 hours with it, I still love the black level, amount of details in the dark, contrast, color accuracy, text sharpness, picture presets and low power usage.
Gamma shift is noticeable on still pictures if moving them from left to right on the screen is your thing, or comparing pictures side-by-side. Nowhere near "people disappearing" - it's less than 0.2 gamma points loss from center to the sides and that means added detail not loss of.
These are all known, now for something not mentioned before:
- Custom resolutions or refresh rates: OVERDRIVE gets DISABLED!
- 1:1 pixel mapping on the display (No Scaling): OVERDRIVE gets DISABLED!
too bad as it's sharp and accurate vs. blurred GPU scaling
- Enlarged on the display (Aspect Ratio): this one works and the one I always use (on native res has no effect)
sharper than GPU enlarged scaling
Regardless, after 1694 hours with it, I still love the black level, amount of details in the dark, contrast, color accuracy, text sharpness, picture presets and low power usage.
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Man, there are so few LCD displays with decent contrast ratio that I still stumbled across this thread and studied it quite intensely.
Because it seems to me that the only acceptable displays if you want decent black points but are also somewhat of a gamer are either the FS2331 or the EV2333WH.
But... now I have to decide between those two.
Actually, I just have two questions:
a) Does either one of the monitors have black crush and if so, how bad is it?
b) Which one provides better response time and how significant is it?
Now to elaborate:
For a), it is obviously important that you have calibrated the display. Because reading the prad review for the EV2333WH, they don't talk about the differentiation of black levels after calibration.
extrahardware.cnews says they weren't able to differentiate the two darkest shades on the FS2331 and for the EV2333WH, they said "Even careful monitoring of the test pattern did not find any serious crimes, compared to Dell's competitive casting the darkest shades almost occurred.". Which... I'm not sure how to interpret.
The flatpanels review of the EV2333WH says "I was able to distinguish almost all shades of grey but the 1-2 darkest shades was reproduced just like full black."
So do both have the same issue? I suppose it would make sense, since according to the tftcentral database, they use the same panel...
And as for b), extrahardware.cnews says about the EV2333WH (comparing it to the F2380M): "I switched on the Eizo EV2333W, a S-PVA, which is criticized for being slow response even though it was not completely perfect, it was much better and Unreal Tournament 3 was at least in competition with computer bots very well playable."
Which sounds good for the EV2333WH. Especially since the FS2331 is often criticized for being a bit unresponsive.
But then there are their responsiveness measurements of the EV2333WH and the FS2331. I'm not sure what to make of it because I don't know how much that issue with the 0-255 transition that the FS2331 has matters in gaming. Although I assume it's negligible and the response should actually be better than that of the EV2333WH?
Because it seems to me that the only acceptable displays if you want decent black points but are also somewhat of a gamer are either the FS2331 or the EV2333WH.
But... now I have to decide between those two.
Actually, I just have two questions:
a) Does either one of the monitors have black crush and if so, how bad is it?
b) Which one provides better response time and how significant is it?
Now to elaborate:
For a), it is obviously important that you have calibrated the display. Because reading the prad review for the EV2333WH, they don't talk about the differentiation of black levels after calibration.
extrahardware.cnews says they weren't able to differentiate the two darkest shades on the FS2331 and for the EV2333WH, they said "Even careful monitoring of the test pattern did not find any serious crimes, compared to Dell's competitive casting the darkest shades almost occurred.". Which... I'm not sure how to interpret.
The flatpanels review of the EV2333WH says "I was able to distinguish almost all shades of grey but the 1-2 darkest shades was reproduced just like full black."
So do both have the same issue? I suppose it would make sense, since according to the tftcentral database, they use the same panel...
And as for b), extrahardware.cnews says about the EV2333WH (comparing it to the F2380M): "I switched on the Eizo EV2333W, a S-PVA, which is criticized for being slow response even though it was not completely perfect, it was much better and Unreal Tournament 3 was at least in competition with computer bots very well playable."
Which sounds good for the EV2333WH. Especially since the FS2331 is often criticized for being a bit unresponsive.
But then there are their responsiveness measurements of the EV2333WH and the FS2331. I'm not sure what to make of it because I don't know how much that issue with the 0-255 transition that the FS2331 has matters in gaming. Although I assume it's negligible and the response should actually be better than that of the EV2333WH?
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The FS2331
It does have noticable troubles with black level. It also has a very (extremely) significant ghosting on some colors.
The response times are superb though. But your eyes will be getting tired too quickly because of the ghosting, when playing fps shooters...
Otherwise, it is a very pleasant display.
It does have noticable troubles with black level. It also has a very (extremely) significant ghosting on some colors.
The response times are superb though. But your eyes will be getting tired too quickly because of the ghosting, when playing fps shooters...
Otherwise, it is a very pleasant display.
Sorry, I actually meant ghosting, not response in terms of input.
But I'm starting to wonder whether these two monitors aren't really exactly the same when it comes to issues of crushing blacks, banding issues and ghosting and the differences are just because of measurement inaccuracies and slight production differences in the very displays that were tested.
I also know how fickle calibration can be, another possible cause why banding would sometimes appear after calibration. And maybe it wouldn't be the case if you use a colorimeter that is more accurate when it comes to black levels (such as the new i1display pro - not the eyeone pro or whatever the old model was called - which was actually a spectrophotometer). And even different calibration softwares matter quite a bit, after all...
But I'm starting to wonder whether these two monitors aren't really exactly the same when it comes to issues of crushing blacks, banding issues and ghosting and the differences are just because of measurement inaccuracies and slight production differences in the very displays that were tested.
I also know how fickle calibration can be, another possible cause why banding would sometimes appear after calibration. And maybe it wouldn't be the case if you use a colorimeter that is more accurate when it comes to black levels (such as the new i1display pro - not the eyeone pro or whatever the old model was called - which was actually a spectrophotometer). And even different calibration softwares matter quite a bit, after all...
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I just found this thread, asking to compare Eizo FS2331 and EV2333.
Unfortunately, nobody does it but after the comments in there, I'm not so sure about my decision to go with FS2331/EV2333 altogether any more... god how I hope that all this subpar LCD crap will be over soon. And I wish I could just get a CRT where I live in the meantime... but not a one larger than 19" on ebay
Unfortunately, nobody does it but after the comments in there, I'm not so sure about my decision to go with FS2331/EV2333 altogether any more... god how I hope that all this subpar LCD crap will be over soon. And I wish I could just get a CRT where I live in the meantime... but not a one larger than 19" on ebay
Sailor_Moon
Gawd
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With a Gamma 2.2 gradation the differentiation of the darkest tonal values naturally is difficult because of its high tonal density in this area. If sRGB material – which is based on a different gradation – is reproduced with that characteristic (that means without color aware software whose CMM accounts for the current display characteristic) you will experience a loss of shadow detail.
Best regards
Denis
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So... aren't you just proving my point that a display should be calibrated to sRGB before looking at test pictures? Assuming those pictures are sRGB material.
After all, at least the review of the FS2331 shows that the gamma curve out of the box is roughly 2.3 (no such diagram for EV2333WH). Which would mean that a value of 1 (assuming a 0-255 range) would appear a lot darker on screen than it actually should - or of course it may not appear at all, because the value gets too low post-LUT.
After all, at least the review of the FS2331 shows that the gamma curve out of the box is roughly 2.3 (no such diagram for EV2333WH). Which would mean that a value of 1 (assuming a 0-255 range) would appear a lot darker on screen than it actually should - or of course it may not appear at all, because the value gets too low post-LUT.
Sailor_Moon
Gawd
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If these test pictures are viewed under non color aware conditions: Yes. My point was to emphasize that this problem is independent from the panel type.
The gradation ist not completely corresponding with the OSD setting (2.2 in this case) but for a screen in this price range the result is still quite good – especially when looking at the grey balance too.
Best regards
Denis
How can the conditions be color aware without calibration?
Unless monitors were to communicate their characteristic (or at least what they think it is - because that obviously changes over the time and the monitor can hardly measure itself) to the operating system...
Do they do that? At least I've never read about anything like it...
I see. Well... I would still be interested in knowing about the capabilities of this very panel when calibrated correctly.
But... I guess there's no use in waiting anyway, as there is no monitor that can rival the FS2331 (or EV2333WH) in terms what I want. I guess I'll see for myself soon and post my own findings here.
Oh I didn't mean that in a critical way, it just seemed an important factor to me in this whole mess of different gradation and blacks getting crushed.
To me, it doesn't matter anyway - I didn't spend all that money on color calibration tools to use a monitor in its factory state
I guess such a comparison is nice for a consumer who doesn't have these tools but I think talking about what the displays could "actually" do should still always come first. Especially since that puts them all on the same starting point, with no shenanigans skewing the results.
Alright, I have tested the two monitors myself now and almost everything I suspected was sort of confirmed (I didn't test extensively because the tests I did do already convinced me)
A description of my findings for people who are interested in purchasing either a FS2331 or a EV2333W:
First, the calibration results for both (calibrated using i1display pro and basiccolor display - I am sure the displays would have been more accurate at e.g. 120cd/m² but what can I say... it's my preference. You can check out results at 120cd/m² on prad):
FS2331
EV2333W
As comparing various reviews already suggested, the EV2333W seems slightly more accurate.
Also, this confirms that the contrast ratio of these two monitors is indeed probably identical (the slight difference may just be because of slight calibration differences and the fact that the FS2331 I tested is new, while the EV2333W already was used for over 2000 hours).
As far as ghosting is concerned, based on the reviews, it seemed as if the FS2331 would be slightly better. But at least according to "PixPerAn", I actually got slightly better results with the EV2333W (about 24ms) than the FS2331 (about 27ms). But that may have just been the inaccuracy of the measurement device involved with "PixPerAn" - eyes
While an overdrive of "Enhanced" just caused more ghosting at the corners of the moving blocks for the FS2331, it actually reduced ghosting somewhat effectively on the EV2333W (from about 29ms down to the 24ms I mentioned).
I also played Quake Live on both monitors and couldn't spot/feel any ghosting/artifacts/lag/etc. on either. I'm sure hardcore gamers would laugh at that but - whatever...
In the past 3-4 years I've played e.g. Metro 2033, Battlefield 3, Arkham City, Witcher 2, GTA 4, Skyrim, Jamestown, Mirror's Edge, Modern Warfare exclusively on CRT monitors.
Yet aside from the black levels (which I still think suck, despite probably being the best in the LCD field), my Quake Live experiences make me feel confident that the EV2333W will be able to fulfill my gaming needs (same would go for the FS2331, obviously).
And then there is the fact that the EV2333W all around seems like a premium product compared to the FS2331. One can't even adjust the OSD position on the latter. AND some of the settings (most importantly color gains) can be adjusted through software for the EV2333W when using DVI. AND it has an amazing stand that is simply great especially when it comes to adjustable height.
Conclusion:
The EV2333W overall seems like the much, much better product (well... at least if those "premium features" I mentioned do something for you. otherwise it's just "better", I suppose) and I think Eizo are fools for not producing it any more. Especially since their own FS2331 is the only competition in the category of displays with high contrast yet still reasonable response times.
For instance at least on German ebay, there are currently two new EV2333Ws for sale at 350€. Compared to current price of the FS2331 on Amazon.de (298€, it's not much more for the overall higher quality and more features...
A description of my findings for people who are interested in purchasing either a FS2331 or a EV2333W:
First, the calibration results for both (calibrated using i1display pro and basiccolor display - I am sure the displays would have been more accurate at e.g. 120cd/m² but what can I say... it's my preference. You can check out results at 120cd/m² on prad):
FS2331
EV2333W
As comparing various reviews already suggested, the EV2333W seems slightly more accurate.
Also, this confirms that the contrast ratio of these two monitors is indeed probably identical (the slight difference may just be because of slight calibration differences and the fact that the FS2331 I tested is new, while the EV2333W already was used for over 2000 hours).
As far as ghosting is concerned, based on the reviews, it seemed as if the FS2331 would be slightly better. But at least according to "PixPerAn", I actually got slightly better results with the EV2333W (about 24ms) than the FS2331 (about 27ms). But that may have just been the inaccuracy of the measurement device involved with "PixPerAn" - eyes
While an overdrive of "Enhanced" just caused more ghosting at the corners of the moving blocks for the FS2331, it actually reduced ghosting somewhat effectively on the EV2333W (from about 29ms down to the 24ms I mentioned).
I also played Quake Live on both monitors and couldn't spot/feel any ghosting/artifacts/lag/etc. on either. I'm sure hardcore gamers would laugh at that but - whatever...
In the past 3-4 years I've played e.g. Metro 2033, Battlefield 3, Arkham City, Witcher 2, GTA 4, Skyrim, Jamestown, Mirror's Edge, Modern Warfare exclusively on CRT monitors.
Yet aside from the black levels (which I still think suck, despite probably being the best in the LCD field), my Quake Live experiences make me feel confident that the EV2333W will be able to fulfill my gaming needs (same would go for the FS2331, obviously).
And then there is the fact that the EV2333W all around seems like a premium product compared to the FS2331. One can't even adjust the OSD position on the latter. AND some of the settings (most importantly color gains) can be adjusted through software for the EV2333W when using DVI. AND it has an amazing stand that is simply great especially when it comes to adjustable height.
Conclusion:
The EV2333W overall seems like the much, much better product (well... at least if those "premium features" I mentioned do something for you. otherwise it's just "better", I suppose) and I think Eizo are fools for not producing it any more. Especially since their own FS2331 is the only competition in the category of displays with high contrast yet still reasonable response times.
For instance at least on German ebay, there are currently two new EV2333Ws for sale at 350€. Compared to current price of the FS2331 on Amazon.de (298€
, it's not much more for the overall higher quality and more features...
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Re the black levels, they are pretty darn good IMO - when calibrated - they matched and in some ways bettered the Sony G520 and Lacie Electron Blue IV Trinitron monitors I had here.
So much so that I just sold my Lacie for $150 last week, since I don't use it anymore
It does ghost compared to the 2 CRTs
The dual HDMI and dual DVI - VGA inputs are nice on the FS2331 - along with separate settings for each - I have the PS3 to one HDMI, and then pass through from the Intensity Shuttle in the other.
PC to DVI and a component to VGA for the VGA input from a Playstation and PS2
The VGA input will go up to 75 hertz refresh rate... wonder why the DVI does not...
So much so that I just sold my Lacie for $150 last week, since I don't use it anymore
It does ghost compared to the 2 CRTs
The dual HDMI and dual DVI - VGA inputs are nice on the FS2331 - along with separate settings for each - I have the PS3 to one HDMI, and then pass through from the Intensity Shuttle in the other.
PC to DVI and a component to VGA for the VGA input from a Playstation and PS2
The VGA input will go up to 75 hertz refresh rate... wonder why the DVI does not...
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