Dolby Digital Live?

[exe163]

Hi, I just got my Forte today to replace my PCI X-Fi F-P. I have a set of Z5500, which supports both optical and coax input. Since I Forte supports DDL encoding via coax, I am able to connect my computer to my speakers with coaxial cable and still maintain 5.1 function.

I am wondering how does DDL work? Which DAC, forte or z5500, processes the digital signals?

P.S. I can't figure out how to get 5.1 with regular 3.5mm cables. For some reason the driver only detects 2 speakers when I have all 3 plugged into "FRONT", "REAR", and "C/SW".

 

[obobski]

I'm guessing you need "Surround" instead of "rear" for analog connection

as far as DDL, the Z-5500 is decoding AC-3 to analog, the X-Fi is converting "magical voodoo" to AC-3, so both are handling processing, although the actual D/A conversion is done in the Z-5500's control unit

 

[450]

Try to switch some ports and wires around. See if a wire is incorrectly placed or if the wire itself is broken.

 

[exe163]

Thanks for the quick replies. I manage to get 5.1 working by manually changing it in the Windows sound setting. Oddly enough Auzen driver doesn't control number of surround settings like the original Creative driver did.

as far as DDL, the Z-5500 is decoding AC-3 to analog, the X-Fi is converting "magical voodoo" to AC-3, so both are handling processing, although the actual D/A conversion is done in the Z-5500's control unit

I don't see much point adding encoding via DDL and then feed it to a DAC. Would it be better to use DAC on the z5500 with DDL and coax or DAC on Forte and transfer data analogously. My computer is pretty far from the control unit of z5500; therefore I have no choice but to use crappy, generic, long 3.5mm cables. I heard cable has close to no effect when it comes to digital signal, which lead me to the idea of using coaxial cable as the medium to communicate between speak and sound card.

 

[450]

If DDL/DTS Connect lag doesn't occur on your system/you don't notice it, digital in your case would help. I was going to say that your Auzentech is a bit wasted on your z5500's but then in another thread you said you were going to get the MS1(i)'s, so its not a waste. Yay.

 

[exe163]

If DDL/DTS Connect lag doesn't occur on your system/you don't notice it, digital in your case would help. I was going to say that your Auzentech is a bit wasted on your z5500's but then in another thread you said you were going to get the MS1(i)'s, so its not a waste. Yay.

Haha, I ordered it. Have to wait a bit since it's in "back order". And IIRC, Forte is one of the few cards that actually supports DDL 5.1 via coaxial. If DDL bypass the the processing of the sound card I don't see much reason using it besides one cable vs three. And one of the reason I get Forte over my old SB X-Fi is for the better DAC and amp.

 

[obobski]

Haha, I ordered it. Have to wait a bit since it's in "back order". And IIRC, Forte is one of the few cards that actually supports DDL 5.1 via coaxial. If DDL bypass the the processing of the sound card I don't see much reason using it besides one cable vs three. And one of the reason I get Forte over my old SB X-Fi is for the better DAC and amp.

it does not bypass the processing of the soundcard, it just bypasses the DAC, these are two VERY different things (and if this doesn't make sense to you, I can't help)

as far as "few to support DDL over coax", what? all Audigy through X-Fi boards support DDL via S/PDIF (which means TOS or coax, depending on hardware)

most all of Auzen's cards support DDL as well (Creative or C-Media based)

DTS should be supported on a large # as well (I don't know, I don't use DTS)

 

[calvieee]

Audigy through X-Fi boards does not support DDL. DD live is not the same as Dolby digtal or DTS. audigy and x-fi can send a DD or DTS signal out via coax, almost any recent soundcard or buildin sound from mb can do that. DDL is when you take mp3 or whatever sound you are playing from your computer and encode it to DD so it can pass a 5.1 signal to your receiver. dont confuse DDL with DD or DTS. only a handful of card supports DDL and DTS connect.

 

[obobski]

Audigy through X-Fi boards does not support DDL. DD live is not the same as Dolby digtal or DTS. audigy and x-fi can send a DD or DTS signal out via coax, almost any recent soundcard or buildin sound from mb can do that. DDL is when you take mp3 or whatever sound you are playing from your computer and encode it to DD so it can pass a 5.1 signal to your receiver. dont confuse DDL with DD or DTS. only a handful of card supports DDL and DTS connect.

incorrect.

X-Fi:
http://buy.soundblaster.com/_creati...ail&category=Software&pid=F2222DDN6Z2H2ADDEZD

Audigy:
http://buy.soundblaster.com/_creati...ail&category=Software&pid=F2222SR6PAKH5DGY6SD


also requires the latest drivers, in the case of Audigy, to enable support

but thanks for flaming.

 

[calvieee]

Sorry i wasnt aware of that. I still have an audigy2 zs card, gave up on that pos long ago. wtf?? When did they start charging $$$ for a driver to support DDL? that's so lame. After the audigy2, i got a Auzen X-Mystique which has DDL. DDL doesnt do anything for me. encoding mp3, tv, movie into 5.1 DD just doesnt sound good at all.

 

[450]

Sorry i wasnt aware of that. I still have an audigy2 zs card, gave up on that pos long ago. wtf?? When did they start charging $$$ for a driver to support DDL? that's so lame. After the audigy2, i got a Auzen X-Mystique which has DDL. DDL doesnt do anything for me. encoding mp3, tv, movie into 5.1 DD just doesnt sound good at all.

The money is to cover the Dolby licensing fee. IIRC the driver is free, its the DDL functionality that costs money. I'm just impressed Creative is supporting the card so long.

 

[obobski]

The money is to cover the Dolby licensing fee. IIRC the driver is free, its the DDL functionality that costs money. I'm just impressed Creative is supporting the card so long.

the driver is 100% free, and has been for the life of the card, and will continue to be so for the forseeable future (they have no reason to charge)

when you/we purchased Audigy series board, they were not licenced for DDL/DTS, retroactively applying that means you pay the piper, don't blame Creative, blame Dolby and DTS

 

[Aemsere]

Just butting in to say that if you're using a long stretch of cable, you should probably go optical rather than coaxial...it also theoretically reduces interference and jitter, though actually being able to hear that probably requires being a bit of an audiophile....

 

[450]

Just butting in to say that if you're using a long stretch of cable, you should probably go optical rather than coaxial...it also theoretically reduces interference and jitter, though actually being able to hear that probably requires being a bit of an audiophile....

Yeah but he's using z5500's. Interference and jitter from coax isn't going to be the very noticeable or noticeable at all.

 

[PGHammer]

The money is to cover the Dolby licensing fee. IIRC the driver is free, its the DDL functionality that costs money. I'm just impressed Creative is supporting the card so long.

The DD licensing started way back with the Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 (the first PCI sound card that Creative built itself as opposed to rebadged Ensoniq AudioPCIs) and was addable to any Live! (it was entirely done in software); it wasn't until the original Audigy that any hardware-assist was even possible.

The de-emphasis on DDL (by Creative) started with Windows Vista (and was entirely driven by a change that Microsoft made to the audio stack, which disabled audio acceleration by hardware (DDL wasn't the only casualty; it broke EAX as well)). Software-only solutions (such as those from Intel) weren't affected (and still aren't with Windows 7); however, with Creative being the *only* company left in the audio-acceleration business (and audio-acceleration getting practically zero traction in enterprises), Microsoft felt comfortable killing audio acceleration (even though it would undoubtedly irk Creative).

It irked Creative alright....and it irked Creative's *customers* even more. (Quite a few have persisted in blaming Creative for that; even though there's lots of documentation, especially from Microsoft, proving Creative was not only blameless, but just as blindsided as the customers.)

 

[PGHammer]

the driver is 100% free, and has been for the life of the card, and will continue to be so for the forseeable future (they have no reason to charge)

when you/we purchased Audigy series board, they were not licenced for DDL/DTS, retroactively applying that means you pay the piper, don't blame Creative, blame Dolby and DTS

Flatly untrue.

While the first Audigy cards lacked Dolby Digital licensing, Creative fixed that via a software update *before* the Audigy 2 launched; a second software update added the software support for DD that came with the Audigy 2 to any Audigy. Software Update #3 came with the introduction of the Audigy 2 ZS, which added both DTS support *and* DDL support (again, to every Audigy and Audigy 2; Daniel_K was the first to discover this and give it wide dispersal via Creative's own forums).

Creative wasn't the one moaning and griping about that; it was Dolby Laboratories Licensing. It wanted Creative to do something that was impossible given software state of the art; restrict capabilities by hardware-purchasing date, even though all the hardware was otherwise identical as far as the software was concerned.

 

[obobski]

Flatly untrue.

While the first Audigy cards lacked Dolby Digital licensing, Creative fixed that via a software update *before* the Audigy 2 launched; a second software update added the software support for DD that came with the Audigy 2 to any Audigy. Software Update #3 came with the introduction of the Audigy 2 ZS, which added both DTS support *and* DDL support (again, to every Audigy and Audigy 2; Daniel_K was the first to discover this and give it wide dispersal via Creative's own forums).

Creative wasn't the one moaning and griping about that; it was Dolby Laboratories Licensing. It wanted Creative to do something that was impossible given software state of the art; restrict capabilities by hardware-purchasing date, even though all the hardware was otherwise identical as far as the software was concerned.

I know Dolby is at fault here, its Dolby (almost as bad as fraunhoffer society)
I also know for a fact my A2 ZS Platinum did not come with DDL, but did/does have DTS NeoC/Neo:6 and so-on (either from CD or you have to download it in addition to the drivers off their site), never used it, but its there (I have no use for the feature with that system, basically)

so from what you're saying (if I'm reading your beautiful flame right), some Audigy series boards should/may have come with DDL, and others without, simply as a result of Dolby's bitching?

and Microsoft didn't just break Creative, theres still a few other players in the h/w acceleration business, VIA (stuff still ain't work) and C-Media (only works because Asus bled out money into it) being two of the largest, along with more proprietary solutions from Digidesign (barely works)

also, theres an edit button

 

[PGHammer]

I know Dolby is at fault here, its Dolby (almost as bad as fraunhoffer society)
I also know for a fact my A2 ZS Platinum did not come with DDL, but did/does have DTS NeoC/Neo:6 and so-on (either from CD or you have to download it in addition to the drivers off their site), never used it, but its there (I have no use for the feature with that system, basically)

so from what you're saying (if I'm reading your beautiful flame right), some Audigy series boards should/may have come with DDL, and others without, simply as a result of Dolby's bitching?

and Microsoft didn't just break Creative, theres still a few other players in the h/w acceleration business, VIA (stuff still ain't work) and C-Media (only works because Asus bled out money into it) being two of the largest, along with more proprietary solutions from Digidesign (barely works)

also, theres an edit button

Yup.

That was exactly my point.

That's also what forced Creative to come up with ALchemy (originally for the X-Fi, but later offered via Software Update to all Audigy owners as well).

I didn't crossgrade from Audigy 2 ZS Gamer to X-Fi XtremeGamer (notice I did NOT say "'upgrade") because of gaming features (read: EAX in games) or due to the DD/DTS issue (none of that was broken). The crossgrade happened because of better support for EAX Environments for *music* in the X-Fi (as opposed to the ZS Gamer) without requiring additional hardware. In other words, the X-Fi suited my needs better.

I had a front-row seat for that flamefest (mostly on Creative's own forums), and, at times, got called a lot of unprintable names for daring to point out that Creative was actually an even bigger victim than we were.