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Does my PSU Suck?

H

HiTech-Hate

Gawd
Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Messages
986
Ok so i've got an Enermax 530W PSU ... I also have a LOT of devices running

(7hds, dvd burner, second dvd player, the usual mobo/cpu/ram/etc, 3xCCFL, too many fans to count, one of those fancy front panel display things)

Anyways, here's my dilemma. For the last, well I dont know .. since I bought the PSU, I would randomly have an HD spin down (not one HD in paticular, any one of the 7), and not spin back up ... thus my raid would go down. There would be instances where either of my DVD drives would not work. I have a 530W PSU for god sakes, how the hell could it be possible that its not enough power? or is it possible?

Anyways, now for the REAL dilemma, wake up this morning, comp wont power on, so i flip PSU off, wait a few min, turn it back on, it powers on ... but its making this really deep whining noise, kinda like if you take a fan and slow it down a LOT), and then after any time between 5-20 seconds my comp just shuts off. I tried this 3-4 times, and one of the 4 times, it actually did stay powered on for a while, it went to the windows login screen with the thinger that moves across (lol i sound like an idiot), and then just before it goes to actually GO into the login screen, my screen goes blank, and the monitor light goes from green to orange (aka no signal from comp to monitor). So I am very confused ... is this a PSU problem? is it a software problem? Am I crazy (dont answer that). I am going to assume that since windows began loading correctly that its not a CPU/RAM/MOBO issue ...

If it is in fact my PSU, what kind of warranty does Enermax have? And what kind of PSU would you recomend that wouldnt give me these problems. I mean I dont need you telling me that 530W should be more then enough, becuase I completely agree, but symptomatically it seems that its not (random drives powering down).
 
HiTech-Hate said:
Ok so i've got an Enermax 530W PSU
Click to expand...

Yes, it sucks...but whats the point of the question? If it died, its dead, and it obviously wasn't any good. I say by yourself either an Antec or a Forton PSU and call it a day.
 
HiTech-Hate said:
I have a 530W PSU for god sakes, how the hell could it be possible that its not enough power? or is it possible?
Click to expand...


Simple...incorrect amp distribution for the application....watts don't really matter.
 
I dont claim to have any knowledge of electronics, my degree is in Biochemistry ... so yeah, im just trying to work with what I have.

The point of my question is this: is my PSU REALLY dead? or is it a matter of the PSU not being powerful enough to support all my devices. I do not want to buy a new PSU if the PSU is not dead. How do i test my PSU?

My second question then, was, what PSU specifically (including wattage, amperage, model etc. bah) would you recomend for my setup if my PSU is indeed dead. Cost is not an issue (well thats not true, I dont want ot go spending $250 on a PSU, $150-$180 would be fine by me).

I realize my post was long and said a lot of probably pointless things, but I just wanted to give as much info into the problem as possible. I'm still not 100% sure that my PSU is actually dead, or if it just cant handle the strain of my devices, and wanted to know if there is even a chance of this being a possibility.
 
Well, to clarify what the other posters said.


Watts don't matter.

This is somewhat a fallacy though.. but lets put it this way.. they don't matter as much as amps.


Here are the facts, however.

1) It does not matter WHO builds your power supply. Everyone can have a dud. Many times, these problems aren't even under the control of the manufacturer. Your psu could have bounced wrong in shipping, and one of it's internal capacitors could have jogged loose, and you'd never know.


2) Amps are more important than watts. However.... that has to be measured with comparitive info.

a [hypothetical] 200Watt powersupply with 300 amps of power on a single rail isn't going to help you much with an SLI, dual core motherboard running 12 harddrives and a pair of 7800GTX's

Everyone has a different rule of thumb, and without knowing your FULL configuration, it's hard to tell exactly what the right thing to get is.

Here's my rule of thumb. Priority

1) Dual or even Triple, or quadruple rail (Enermax makes a 4 rail psu .. or two)

2) At least 15 amps PER rail if it's a 2 rail design. At least 12 amps per rail if it's more than 2 rails.

3) 450Watts minimum. Only matters if the other rules are met.


With your 7 drives.. I'd say you are looking at.. something along the lines of up to 1.8amps per drive (again, you don't mention specifics... so, you are looking at 12.6 amps JUST to run your harddrives, and depending on drive, you could be looking at as much as 40watts per. = 280 watts)
[before someone corrects me.. yes, I know I am overestimating. It's better to be pessimistic and buy too much than be optimistic and buy too little]


So.. before you even add your harddrives.. You've got to think "What do I need to run this system"

then add a er... rail with 13 amps on it, and 280 Watts.

Our highest end systems here have EN850AX, EG651, and PCP&C 510TC

Which system do you think has the most drives?
Which system do you think is running a very high end workstation
Which system do you think is the most overclocked, but most stripped machine?


/EDIT cause I made a confusing typo.
 
HiTech-Hate said:
My second question then, was, what PSU specifically (including wattage, amperage, model etc. bah) would you recomend for my setup if my PSU is indeed dead. Cost is not an issue (well thats not true, I dont want ot go spending $250 on a PSU, $150-$180 would be fine by me).
Click to expand...

PC Power and Cooling is what you want, probably one of the TurboCool 510 models, depending on your mobo connector and other options specific to your setup.

 
HiTech-Hate said:
My second question then, was, what PSU specifically (including wattage, amperage, model etc. bah) would you recomend for my setup if my PSU is indeed dead. Cost is not an issue (well thats not true, I dont want ot go spending $250 on a PSU, $150-$180 would be fine by me).
Click to expand...


Based on my "Rules of thumb" above, and your $150-$180 range, I found the following offers @ The egg

SeaSonic S12-600 ATX12V 600W Power Supply - Retail

$159 - $20 MIR, + $6.99 shipping = $145.99 SHIPPED, After Rebate
Click to expand...

600 Watts
30 Amps on +5
18A on 12V #1
18A on 12V #2
Nvidia SLI Certified


or

SILVERSTONE ZEUS SST-ST65ZF ATX12V 650W Power Supply - Retail

$169 + $6.99 s&h
Click to expand...


QUAD-Rail design
24A on 5V - For drives
13A on 12V #1 for miscellany
18A on 12V #2 for video cards
16A on 12V #3 for motherboard
8A on 12V #4 [for CCFLs and fans]


You have to go above and below 150 and 180 to find an enermax offering. I limited the search range.

But this is what you should buy.

Thermaltake Silent Pure Power W0049RUC 680W Power Supply - Retail

$169+6.99 s&h
Click to expand...

50 amps on 5volt

15A on 12V1
15A on 12V2
8A on 12V3

This was what I Searched


There are other offers, but they don't make as much sense to me.
 
HiTech-Hate said:
Anyways, now for the REAL dilemma, wake up this morning, comp wont power on, so i flip PSU off, wait a few min, turn it back on, it powers on ... but its making this really deep whining noise, kinda like if you take a fan and slow it down a LOT), and then after any time between 5-20 seconds my comp just shuts off. I tried this 3-. . .
Click to expand...

Did you check to make sure that the fans in the psu are operational? IOW are you sure its not a problem of the psu itself overheating? The warmer a psu gets the less efficient it is.
 
Laforge said:
Except he specified $180 max, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817703001

and its $220
Click to expand...

There is a refurb 510 ATX for sale there (PCPC website) for $169 and a 510 S2 for $179. And the 510 ATX is $189, the Deluxe is $193, not $220. A small extra price to pay for the added reputation and support. PCPC rate theirs at 50 degrees C, most others rate theirs at 25 degrees. And they come with 8 standard drive connectors, probably what the OP needs.
 
Thanks for all your replies. I will look into some of those. I must appoligize to those of you who seem to have taken an almost personal insult that I didnt understand the amp vs. watt dillemma. I truly am a newb to electronics and to PSUs and thats why I posted here, in hopes of getting advice (now if you want to know anything about molecular biology, enzymology, or any of the many flavours of biochemistry im your man). At any rate, what advantage would this quad rail design have over the dual rail (if any)? And also of those suggested PSUs, which has the most molex connectors ... a minimal factor I know, but my enermax didnt have enough for all of my devices and I had to use some of those Y adapter thingers, which id rather avoid this time if I can. If i were to put all of my drives in my raid (4) on one wire (is this the same as a rail?) would I want to pick a dual rail PSU?

If anything, at least i'm entertaining you all with my ridiculously elementary questions, so I hope your enjoying yourselves laughing at me :D

O, and Newegg is out ... Im canadian, and apparently newegg sees an impenetrable wall at the borders of our two countries (esp considering the cost of shipping from the US to canada is the same as it is from in the US to other parts of the US, in fact sometimes cheaper).. Anyways, imma stop ranting about my anger towards newegg ... just so you know, if I buy a PSU it will have to be from somewhere else.
 
as far as watts not mattering as much as amps.... you cant really say that as the two are ratios of each other its not that simple.

i believe its

Amps=watts/voltage ie 33amps=396watts/12volts OR 33amps=165watts/5volts notice the amps doesnt change its all just a ratio.


with that said however based on ur price range, and what u got going id say the same as previously mentioned

Seasonic, or silverstone both very good supplies for the cost and others include the enermax liberty or the OCZ powerstreams (not the modstreams) if you got the cash the pcpower and cooling IS technically a better supply but i doubt ud ever notice a difference, which is why id go with the cheaper (if u can call 140bucks cheaper) supplies
 
ppl still havnt answered my q, is it better to have more rails? like is 4 worth it over 2?

Someone explain this rail concept to me, im interested =P
 
HiTech-Hate said:
ppl still havnt answered my q, is it better to have more rails? like is 4 worth it over 2?

Someone explain this rail concept to me, im interested =P
Click to expand...

it is intented to split the load more evenly afaik
 
HiTech-Hate said:
ppl still havnt answered my q, is it better to have more rails? like is 4 worth it over 2?

Someone explain this rail concept to me, im interested =P
Click to expand...

You will reap no real benefit at this point for a standard desktop by using more than a dual rail 12v PSU. The point as said above of 2 12v's is to isolate high draw items.....12v2 powers the processor and 12v1 powers everything else.
 
timske said:
as far as watts not mattering as much as amps.... you cant really say that as the two are ratios of each other its not that simple.
Click to expand...


Why I say that is because WATTAGE can be very misleading.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...ice=&MaxPrice=&SubCategory=58&Submit=Property


There is a 620 Watt,"Sky Hawk" PSU : $70.00

However.. for some reason, I don't think it has 50 amps on the 5V rail.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817194004

This Enermax 620W for $175, however, is a FAR superior product.. even though it's also 620 Watts.

But if you looked solely at wattages, you'd think the enermax was a rip-off.
 
ok, so now I now understand that the first 12v rail is for the proc, and the second is for 'everything else'. So whats the point of a -12v rail? Whats the 5v rail for, or 3.3v rail, or +5VSB?
 
HiTech-Hate said:
I have a 530W PSU for god sakes, how the hell could it be possible that its not enough power? or is it possible?
Click to expand...
Because the specs on the label don't mean crap really. Simply too many ways for PSU manufactuers
to inflate the numbers.

How else could a quality 300w PSU outperform a crappy 600w unit in the exact same system?
Have seen this on more than one occasion.

PC Power & Cooling is the only maker I can think of right off hand which gives the output at
actual operating temp. Many so called 550w PSU drop well below 200w when they reach 40 degrees (C).

Which is why the myth that your PSU must have excessive overhead got started.

HiTech-Hate said:
ok, so now I now understand that the first 12v rail is for the proc, and the second is for 'everything else'. So whats the point of a -12v rail? Whats the 5v rail for, or 3.3v rail, or +5VSB?
Click to expand...
If you look around the Overclocking forums you will notice that dual +12v rail units
are not recommended much anymore, and often maligned. In fact, Intel is soon to abandon the dual
rail spec if I remember correctly.

Here is a good read which should answer most of your questions : http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=779582
 
HiTech-Hate said:
ok, so now I now understand that the first 12v rail is for the proc, and the second is for 'everything else'. So whats the point of a -12v rail? Whats the 5v rail for, or 3.3v rail, or +5VSB?
Click to expand...
A lot if it is historical.
Back in the olden days, AT and PS2 style PSUs had +12V, +5V, -5V, and -12V power.
I'm not sure why the -5 and -12 were needed, but some things used it, and they're there for compatibility. Maybe they'll go away in a future.
Up until the Pentium 90 & 75 came out the proc ran on 5V power. 386s, 486s, the original Pentium 60 and 66, etc. all used a 5V core voltage.
The Pentium 90 and 75 were 3.3V chips. ATX came out shortly thereafter, and added a 3.3V rail. A lot of stuff in a PC went to 3.3V. PCI uses 3.3 or 5V, AGP started with 3.3V and went to 1.5V with AGP4x.
The +5VSB is short for +5V stand by. It's still live when the PSU is off. It's used to turn on the PC and makes things like wake on lan work. +5VSB "powers the power switch" An ATX system can't turn on without it. I'd assume BTX is the same way, though I haven't read the specs & don't have a BTX board.
 
HiTech-Hate said:
O, and Newegg is out ... Im canadian, and apparently newegg sees an impenetrable wall at the borders of our two countries (esp considering the cost of shipping from the US to canada is the same as it is from in the US to other parts of the US, in fact sometimes cheaper).. Anyways, imma stop ranting about my anger towards newegg ... just so you know, if I buy a PSU it will have to be from somewhere else.
Click to expand...

You might want to try ncix.com. They are physically in Vancouver, but ship accross Canada and to the US.
 
NCIX is a great company .. i've used them over a dozen times :) I just wanted to point out that newegg was out.

And can you all pls stop telling me over and over that wattage doesn't matter? I've admitted twice now that it was a mistake and that im a newb to all this .. stop flaming me over it please, its starting to annoy me. My PSU was also an Enermax, which, while I recognize isn't the elite of power supplies, are still high quality reliable power supplies.

If two rail is out, then wtf is there left lol? if im gonna buy a PSU I want it to be compatible with the future (aka SLI etc). You just confused me even more by telling me that a 2 rail PSU is bad lol.
 
HiTech-Hate said:
ok, so now I now understand that the first 12v rail is for the proc, and the second is for 'everything else'. So whats the point of a -12v rail? Whats the 5v rail for, or 3.3v rail, or +5VSB?
Click to expand...


People can correct me if I am wrong, I am just spouting off the top of my head.


+5VSB = Sort of obsolete, other than for it's "Standby" functions
-12V - Very very few things use this, again, sort of obsolete. You'll notice there aren't many amps on it anyhow

+5v = Drives mainly, although many fans are 5V instead of 12V

3.3V rail : 3.3V items such as floppies [which aren't 5v last I knew]
 
yeh most all those other rails you dont need much stock in anymore most important is the 12v rail, get a good powersupply from a reputable manufacture with a solid 30amps on the 12v rail.

ocz, seasonic, silverstone, antec, pcpcool, enermax,hiper(yes they are good). most all of those are going to have 30amp + on the 12v rail and will output that through the operating temp range.

You really shouldnt have to worry about too many specifics, the only thing with getting a powersupply now is EPS12v may be used more on newer boards and not all powersupplies support it (it will be listed as either eps12v or p8 connector). With that said if your going to dump around 150 on a supply u may as well get one that under normal circumstances your not going to need to replace for a long while to come.
 
Laforge said:
Please.. never, ever link to that website again.
Even with firefox, and pop-ups disabled, and no java or flash, I *still* got 3 popups.
Click to expand...

I get zero. Nothing special just firefox 1.5.....me thinks you may have other problems....but try noscript.
 
went to that link as well and got no pop ups.

As far as what PSU to use and voltage lines, amps, and wattts go; it is just as important what wattage you are getting as the amps you need. I have been at this business for some time, but I always make sure to get a PSU that more then runs what I am using. Seeing the system you are running I would definetly get a 500+W PSU and like its been said so many times, one with more then 30A on the 2 +12V rails, and dont be afraid to spend some money on it. Look at it like insurance. You also may want to look at getting a PSU with quite a bit more then you need for future upgrades. You seem to have a really nice system, dont blow it by getting a cheap or lower rated PSU.
 
diegophil said:
went to that link as well and got no pop ups.

As far as what PSU to use and voltage lines, amps, and wattts go; it is just as important what wattage you are getting as the amps you need.
Click to expand...

No I am afraid it is not. You can have 2 500w supplies one with 50 amps on the 5v and another with 28 amps on the 5v. The difference being that the second has a 12v rail with a far greater capacity than the first rendering it far more useful for a config.

For instance
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817153015
40 amp 5v, 22 amp 12v......560w supply

Compared to:http://www.spacecentersystems.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/291364
30 amp 5v, 18 amps on each 12v which is a supply jonnyGURU was able to actually get to run that load......on a 500w supply.



Amp distribution > wattage day in and day out.
 
Spectre said:
I get zero. Nothing special just firefox 1.5.....me thinks you may have other problems....but try noscript.
Click to expand...
Ditto ........ no pop-ups here either. :p
 
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