Difference between 32-bit and 64-bit Lan cards?

T

The Chosen One

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Hi guys, im thinking about setting up a gigabit LAN, and ive come across 2 types of gigabit NIC, 32bit and 64bit, and i was wondering what the difference was (aside from price)?

And would the 64bit cards require a different hub to the 32bit versions to function correctly? or is the difference based soley on the PCI bus interface of the cards or something?

Thanks in advance guys,
 
PCI slots

32bit 33MHz is what your board likely has 133MB/s

64bit 66MHz PCI slot (533MB/s) or 64bit 33MHz (266MB/s)
or PCI-X 64bit 133MHz (1066MB/s)

133MB/s is the same as IDE for transfer rate
and unless your looking at a server as much as youd need ;)

some but not all 64bit cards are backwad compatible to 32bit slots
but to populate a 64bit slot the requires more "fingers" than a 32bit card has

here is an example of the slots
http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderk8w.html
last one far left is a legacy 32bit 33MHz slot
 
Ice Czar said:
PCI slots

32bit 33MHz is what your board likely has 133MB/s

64bit 66MHz PCI slot (533MB/s) or 64bit 33MHz (266MB/s)
or PCI-X 64bit 133MHz (1066MB/s)

133MB/s is the same as IDE for transfer rate
and unless your looking at a server as much as youd need ;)

some but not all 64bit cards are backwad compatible to 32bit slots
but to populate a 64bit slot the requires more "fingers" than a 32bit card has
Click to expand...


ahhh, i see. I am sort of running a server, but only a basic file server to host accounting softwares data file with a SATA Raid 0+1 setup. The motherboard is a Asus A8N-SLI. (only just bought it last week). Are any of the various PCI/ PCI Express slots on that board 64bit, or not?
 
The Tyan?

yeh it has 2 seperate PCI-X buses to slots share 64bit 133\100MHz bus and the second bus has 2 more 64bit 100\66MHz slots, it also has GbE LAN attached to the first PCI-X bus

sorry the Asus no its 32bit 33MHz (3 white PCI slots)
you didnt get the Deluxe? it has dual GbE onboard

now as to whether youd need higher throughput is a factor of both your access traffic to the server and your network itself, switches ect.

PCI-X would be overkill in most cases (64bit 100MHz and up)
and PCI 64bit 66MHz is the wider adopted and older standard
PCI-X isnt really going to get near the saturation that 64bit 66MHz has seen in the enterprise, because PCI-E is replacing it.
 
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=98&type=expert&pid=3

At first glance, the layout of the A8N-SLI motherboard doesn't appear that different than most other boards we have seen before. Closer investigation reveals quite a few differences starting with the addition of PCI Express slots on a retail AMD motherboard, which is a first for us. There are two x16 PCIe slots that allow you to connect two x16 cards to the motheboard, but don't actually have x16 lanes of PCIe going to to them. Your choices are limited to having a x16 connection and a x1 connection (where the secondary x16 slot is able to utilize only a single lane of PCI Express) or having two x8 connections. The former allows you to have a single graphcs card and up to three x1 PCIe devices on the system while the latter lets you use two GPUs and a single x1 PCIe devies (maybe, more on that later).
Click to expand...

there are PCI-E x1 GbE NICs Im trying to find their throughput
 
1gigbit nic is only going to put out 125MB/s or 250MB/s at full duplex. So putting it even on a pci-e x1 id going to be a major waste in bandwidth.
 
a single channel GbE is of course 1000Mb/s not MB/s
but there is also

CAT 6

To accommodate the higher error rates in Cat 5e, the 1000Base-T copper interface does integrity checks and the complex duplex operation by using costly digital signal processers (DSPs)

A Cat 6 specification for a 1000Base-TX copper GbE interface does exist that defines half duplex transmission (500Mbps transmitting on two pairs in one direction and 500Mbps receiving on the other two pairs).This simpler scheme reduces the need for costly DSPs on the active interface.
Click to expand...

the status of which Im not too familiar with
if the OP likes we can transfer this to Networking ;)

then there is
http://www.broadcom.com/products/Enterprise-Small-Office/Gigabit-Ethernet-Controllers/BCM5721
BCM5721
NetXtreme™ Gigabit Ethernet Controller for Servers
The Broadcom® BCM5721 is one of three NetXtreme™ Gigabit Ethernet (GbE) controllers that implement the advanced PCI Express host interface. Representing the world's first support for the PCI Express specification, the BCM5721 combines innovative performance enhancements with a PCI Express 1x host interface enabling 2 Gbps throughput for the most demanding server applications. To reduce the total cost of server ownership, the BCM5721 supports the Intelligent Platform Management Interface (IPMI) 1.5 manageability standard that allows servers to be remotely managed. The BCM5721 also incorporates the industry's most advanced server software (the Broadcom Advanced Server Program or BASP) which offers several innovative teaming functions not available from any other GbE controller solution.

Built upon six generations of field-proven Gigabit Ethernet media access controller (MAC) and physical layer (PHY) transceiver technology, the BCM5721 utilizes a fully integrated 10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet MAC, PCI Express bus interface, on-chip buffer memory, and integrated PHY in a single-chip solution designed specifically for LAN on motherboard (LOM) and network interface card (NIC) applications. This single chip solution is fabricated in a low-voltage, 0.13-micron CMOS process that provides low power consumption.

The BCM5721 features a comprehensive software suite offering a complete solution for client and server applications, including drivers for all popular operating systems. The NetXtreme architecture also features a unique processor-based design, enabling advanced management software to run in firmware so it can be remotely upgraded via simple downloads.
Click to expand...
 
okay so seeing as the board only has 32bit 33mhz PCI slots, with a max of 133MB/s, which is going to be a bottle neck for most GB NICs, i may as well just stick with the onboad GB interface for that comp, and go with simple 32bit NICs for the other, older comps and just face the fact that a bottle neck is going to occur due to the PCI interface on the older comps.

Oh...am i right in assuming that the onboard interface will be faster than a 32bit 33mhz PCI interface? Cos i seem to recall reading something to that effect on a review of one of the boards or osmething here. And how would onboard compare with PCI-E in terms of performance?

Cos the other alternative would be to get a PCI-E NIC for the 'server' and just make sure each new comp has one as well as we upgrade so eventually its all PCI-E.

Also, how does Full-Duplexing work? is that something thats always on and enables double speed or is it not that simple, and dependant on certain things to work?
 
OK well Ive relocated this to Netorking for some definative realworld experience :D
as opposed to my limited theoretical knowledge, I havent setup my own GbE LAN here yet.

As to the bandwidth of the onboard GbE as defakto points out depends on both the GbE controller and which bus its actually hooked upto, it could be on the PCI-E bus or the legacy PCI 32bit 33MHz, might need to look that up in the manual

I can answer the duplex question though
in effect it allows both sending and receiving
* A simplex channel is a one-way channel.
* A half-duplex channel is one that can carry information in both directions, but not at the same time.
* A full-duplex channel is a channel which can carry information in both directions at once.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duplex

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=781545
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1026346803#post1026346803

BobSutan said:
Q. Will upgrading to Gigabit help my network?

A. It depends. For general SOHO network needs, probably not. For large file transfers and HUGE networks, maybe. By simply adding a 1Gb NIC into a machine you will not get any thing from it unless your system can sustain high data throughput levels. You will also need a switch that has 1Gb port(s)for the machine with the Gigabit NIC to connect to (unless you’re only connected two machines together).

Please note that there are differences in 32bit and 64bit slots in that more data can come in and out of the 64bit slot at one time, increasing the data throughput. Keep in mind that your throughput is only as fast as your slowest connection. Even if you use gigabit cards, you're only as fast as your slowest connection. So unless you're planning on going to a full gigabit network it may not be worth the money for most home users. Likewise, to take FULL advantage of gigabit networking (and even 100mbit), you need to be running top-notch hardware. PCI bandwidth (32bit vs 64bit) and Hard Drives (15k SCSI drives) are the two good examples, and will likely be what you will encounter. Keep in mind you would have to buy hardware to support all of these features, and the odds of saturating a FULL gigabit network with general SOHO networking (gaming, www, email) is very slim. However, by placing a server on a Gigabit link you may see performance gains in that it would take multiple users to saturate a server’s link therefore giving the connected users more available bandwidth to the server. But again, it takes a lot (as in server/enterprise class hardware) to fully maintain the data rates needed to take full advantage of a gigabit connection.

As of today, many networking professionals consider the best use of Gigabit as uplinks between two (or more) standard 100Mbit switches. If you’re in the market to upgrade your network, making the leap to Gigabit uplinks between switches, or for high-level servers, is a much more cost effective and well-rounded solution (until fully migrating to Gigabit when its more affordable and/or practical).
Click to expand...
 
hmm okay, so ill have to email asus or something to find out how the onboard GBe is connected, as for Cat6, there doesnt seem to be a lot of point as Cat5e supports up to 1gb, and only need Cat6 for beyond that....as we only have fairly short runs, and cat5 already, it should be fine....ahh although, now that i think of it, it might only be Cat5 not Cat5e.... is that gonna make much of a difference do you reckon? although...short run, wont matter if we have to redo it.

As for Duplex, it seems that as long as the Card, cabling, and switch support Full Duplexing, it should run in that mode?

For your general SOHO type network, the only option that is really viable, is 32bit NICs as most mobos in that environment wont support 64bit it seems. so either legacy PCI or PCI-E.

Although ive been looking at a few of my wholesalers, and some shops in my area, and cant seem to find any that stock PCI-E NICs, so i might be restricted to legacy PCI for the time being. hehe.
 
Actually, on the issue of cabling, if Cat5e is limited to 1gb, wont that prove unable to support a GBe network in full duplex mode? as that would be 2gb?

Or is the theoretical limit of the cable 1GB/s as opposed to the theoretical limit of the GBe being 1Gb/s?
 
see thats why I tossed this in here
Im not a networking guru, switches, other boxes on the net, cabling, the length of the cabling and actual throughput youd be able to expect, all things Id feel much better having real practitioners answer ;)

so bump

if you like we can alter the thread title to more accurately reflect the current questions and you can edit your first post as well ;) (add to the front of it)
 
okay i did some more reading, found out that Cat5 has a TL of 100Mbit/s, Cat5e is 1000Mbit/s, Cat6 is 2.5Gbit/s. So really Cat6 is the only thing thats going to allow the theoretical limit speeds of GBe, however, i would imagine that Cat5e would be enough as there is usally a big difference between theoretical and actual speeds.

Hmm ill give some thought to amending the title and first post when i get back from uni, as it has kind of shifted from the original question, now that i know the difference and that the original question wasnt really the right one to be asking.
 
this forums mods or a super moderator or admin will have to edit the thread title
you can edit the first post anytime you like ;)

you have any estimate to the traffic your projecting for this server?
how large is the LAN?
 
A Cat 6 specification for a 1000Base-TX copper GbE interface does exist that defines half duplex transmission
Click to expand...
1000Base-TX was never adopted by any vendor and was essentially scrapped before it was even ratified.
the board only has 32bit 33mhz PCI slots, with a max of 133MB/s, which is going to be a bottle neck for most GB NICs
Click to expand...
The premise that you shouldn't use GigE with PCI-32/33 because you can't saturate the link is weak. The point is that you can saturate 100Base-T with PCI-32/33 ... GigE gives you more headroom. Since when do people choose products on the basis that they can easily overload them?
it might only be Cat5 not Cat5e.... is that gonna make much of a difference do you reckon? although
Click to expand...
It'll probably work. While Cat5e was specifically designed for things like 1000Base-T the spec is just an addition of requirements and slightly stricter tolerances on things like attenuation to address protocols that use full-duplex on each pair. Most Cat5 cable could be certified as Cat5e. I certainly wouldn't suggest this to a client though.
As for Duplex, it seems that as long as the Card, cabling, and switch support Full Duplexing, it should run in that mode?
Click to expand...
There is a half-duplex GigE spec, but AFAIK no vendor ever adopted it. Every 1000Base-T implementation in use is full-duplex/hybrid on all pairs.
Actually, on the issue of cabling, if Cat5e is limited to 1gb, wont that prove unable to support a GBe network in full duplex mode? as that would be 2gb?
Click to expand...
No,the encoding/signaling in 1000Base-T is based off the method of signaling and recieving on the same pairs as used in 100Base-T4.
 
Ice Czar said:
this forums mods or a super moderator or admin will have to edit the thread title
you can edit the first post anytime you like ;)

you have any estimate to the traffic your projecting for this server?
how large is the LAN?
Click to expand...

LAN is only small, with only about 9 computers accessing the data stored in the 'server.'

Our primary purpose for the LAN upgrade, and the transition to a RAID setup on the comp hosting the accounting data file and other common files was to reduce the latency experienced while using the accounting software, like before, reports that were taking upwards of a few minutes to compile are now taking under 30s with the current setup on 100Mbps LAN we have now, we are hoping to reduce these times even further, as well as the general 'navigation' lag that comes when switching amongst various sections in the software, where access to the data file is needed.
 
Cataclysmcow said:
It'll probably work. While Cat5e was specifically designed for things like 1000Base-T the spec is just an addition of requirements and slightly stricter tolerances on things like attenuation to address protocols that use full-duplex on each pair. Most Cat5 cable could be certified as Cat5e. I certainly wouldn't suggest this to a client though.

No,the encoding/signaling in 1000Base-T is based off the method of signaling and recieving on the same pairs as used in 100Base-T4.
Click to expand...

Ah okay, so youre saying that the existing Cat5 is essentially Cat5e in disguise, but hasnt been made subject to the same stringent level of fault tolerance requirements as certified Cat5e. Not that you would buy Cat5 instead of Cat5e relying on that premise, but if thats what we already have, then it wouldnt hurt to just try it out and see how it goes as it may just work to similar standards as Cat5e?

Cataclysmcow said:
No,the encoding/signaling in 1000Base-T is based off the method of signaling and recieving on the same pairs as used in 100Base-T4.
Click to expand...

What i actually meant by "unable to support" was that in full duplex mode, would the cabling prevent the speeds reaching the speeds that it should be capable of in Full Duplex mode, and instead restrict it to 1000Mbp/s? Or did you mean that the theoretical limit of the cable is irrelevant as it doesnt take into account what kind if duplexing is used?
 
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