consulting vs operations

[Thuleman]

Not really a discussion about hardware but more so about employment in the virtualization sector.

I have been running my little vSphere cluster with three hosts and a single iSCSI SAN for the longest time and just recently added another host to it. Now I am about to take over another cluster that has 6 physical hosts, two FC SANs, as well as taking over the management of two out of state locations which each have three hosts and one SAN. The total number of VMs will go from my current mid 30s to mid 200s. All in all that's very exciting as the needs of the VM users are a lot more diverse than the systems that I have been running thus far.

Then there is a possibility of joining a VAR and while I would at first need a lot of training I would ultimately come out ahead when it comes to compensation and do something I actually like doing despite being a tech guy; interacting with people and dealing with technology at the same time.

However, I see the lack of having a system they "own" as the bane of sales engineers. I am sure folks like Netjunkie and whomever else we have here who are consultants have their home labs set up but that's not quite the same as actually running production datacenters.

 

[Vader]

I'm in a similiar situation. My path continues to take me down an IT Opertational role, and i'm taking the steps to get out of that and into consulting. I would much rather travel to different businesses, assisting IT organizations with buiding out their virtual and storage infrastructure.

I realize that I have quite a bit of learning to do so i'm on a track, I took the CCNA last year, my VCP will be next month, and this summer I plan to have my first EMC cert. I have been and continue to support 3 separate Virutalized environments both Hyper-V and VMware vSphere for server and VDI to include the Layer 2 network and SAN's supporting said environments.

While I continue to search for opportuntities and interviewing regularly, I would like to complete the certifications and have some more experience under my belt before making the jump. It actually feels good to be able to weigh all your options as you continue to be employed. I will be pursuing a position that's going to be the right choice for me so I believe that I have some time to do that. Having said that, it certainly doens't mean i'm not open to taking a position now if I feel it's the right one.

Back on subject, however, i'm learning more and more daily that in order to be a true consultant, especially in the Virtualization field, you really have to know more than just the virutal product you'll support, you really need to know quite a bit about networking, storage, and now unified fabric as it gains popularity, and how it all ties together in the "big picuture."

 

[Child of Wonder]

I've been a consultant for a year now and am really enjoying it. The company I work for is extremely dedicated to making us very marketable and knowledgeable yet realizes they need to take care of us so we'll stay. This creates a great symbiotic relationship between us and the company as many of us are intensely motivated and passionate about what we do and are happy to do whatever the company needs.

As a consultant, I REALLY like not owning every problem at a client's site and not having to deal with the petty day to day politics that come with IT. Getting to come into a client as an "expert" is also refreshing as management, unfortunately, tends to heed the words of us over their own employees. It's nice to be able to show up, kick some ass, impress people, then leave and not have to worry about all the political minutia I would have to if I were a FT employee with a company. My stress level is WAY down being a consultant.

However, I couldn't do this work if my company didn't offer full salary and benefits. And I'm sure not all consulting firms treat their employees as well as mine does. Plus, when the economy goes sour, you're a bit safer as a FT employee somewhere than as a consultant.

 

[defuseme2k]

Not really a discussion about hardware but more so about employment in the virtualization sector.

I have been running my little vSphere cluster with three hosts and a single iSCSI SAN for the longest time and just recently added another host to it. Now I am about to take over another cluster that has 6 physical hosts, two FC SANs, as well as taking over the management of two out of state locations which each have three hosts and one SAN. The total number of VMs will go from my current mid 30s to mid 200s. All in all that's very exciting as the needs of the VM users are a lot more diverse than the systems that I have been running thus far.

Then there is a possibility of joining a VAR and while I would at first need a lot of training I would ultimately come out ahead when it comes to compensation and do something I actually like doing despite being a tech guy; interacting with people and dealing with technology at the same time.

However, I see the lack of having a system they "own" as the bane of sales engineers. I am sure folks like Netjunkie and whomever else we have here who are consultants have their home labs set up but that's not quite the same as actually running production datacenters.

Man, aren't we in the same boat. I never could stand to be out of the nuts and bolts of it, but Sales Engineers make really good money. NetJunkie probably interacts with not only his home lab, but labs at work, and his customer's sites. It'll keep you sharp and it is diverse, which is nice. I'd like to do it at some point, it pays better. At the same time, I'm sitting on top of a huge cloud project with hundreds of host and thousands of VMs and it is diverse on its own. Multiple sites across the united states with different configs, etc. There is always something new to learn, even for an operations guy like me since it is such a big environment. I've passed up sales engineering spots that would pay 20-30K more than I'm making now because of their rules of employment. They sure think a lot of themselves... I don't really want to work for a company that is only in one state or only a couple of states. Maybe that isn't true, maybe I'd entertain it if I thought it posed enough of an opportunity to grow. The non-compete contracts are just hard to swallow unless you are going to be somewhere you intend to stay quite a while...

 

[Netwerkz101]

I am on the operations side - aka ..I am an IT mutt ... aka Firefighter and arsonist rolled into one. I know a little about a lot and I am tired of being in this state of mediocrity.

I really envy the consultants I deal with for the amount of knowledge they possess of the latest technologies.

The perks of being a consultant as I see it:
1. Regular exposure to cool/new technology and challenges to implement.
2. Regular training (usually)
3. You become an SME by learning, doing, repeating.
4. Money.
5. Travel.

The perks of being on the operations side as I see it:
1. No travel.
2. You get used to the same environment (slow times is used for research)
3. Technology is changed as needed (read not the bleeding edge but this starts fires)
4. You become a good firefighter (this isn't really a perk)

Having said the above, I would just like to be a consultant to my current employer.
I'd just travel locally to all the seminars and training events I can.... come back to my
employer and say "Here is a proof-of-concept!!" and let them buy it or not.

I'd do it for half my pay now!!!

Anyhow ... those who survive in IT are likely those who are not the "Jack of all trades, Master of none"
types.... but the "SME of all things IT (storage, networking, security, etc)".

 

[Netwerkz101]

As a consultant, I REALLY like not owning every problem at a client's site and not having to deal with the petty day to day politics that come with IT.

OMG!!! This!!!

...just wanna walk in .... show them how I can provide a tech solution to meet business needs
and walk away .. on to the next location ...and keep moving.

I envy you.

 

[NetJunkie]

See how much I ramble on this one...heh...

I always tell people to go in to consulting early in their career. It's a great way to see a lot of diff environments, work with diff people, and learn how to handle yourself in the field. Plus, a good consulting company will help train you and get you certified. We have to carry a lot of certifications for our partner agreements, so there is always opportunity.

I was a Network Manager for a while two jobs ago...basically I managed the infrastructure team so it was all about the day to day... Along with consulting I think everyone should be on an infrastructure team for a while..server admin, network engineer, storage admin..whatever. You learn the issues and problems of day to day life. You learn how you must operate in a budget and don't always get to replace what you want. And you also learn how to, hopefully, deal with vendors and a purchase/budget cycle.

Then if you want go back to consulting as a much more experienced and well rounded engineer. Or you can do pre-sales work like I do now...just up to you. You'll almost always make more money on the consulting side than you will as an IT admin. But it's usually tougher. Constant changes..constant learning...longer hours, etc. As a consultant you'll also usually make more as a pre-sales person than an implementation engineer. But, you'll spend more time on non-technical stuff, live quarter by quarter, and work even more hours.

For me, I stay sharp by working in my home lab, one of our demo labs, or doing PoCs with customers. I'm not billable but do pilots and proof of concepts for some customers. I also work with the technical staff at our partners a lot. Not uncommon for me to spend a day at Cisco or EMC with a customer getting to work in the lab.

 

[Thuleman]

I am on the operations side - aka ..I am an IT mutt ... aka Firefighter and arsonist rolled into one. I know a little about a lot and I am tired of being in this state of mediocrity.

This is the biggest issue that I see. The way things are going there is no vSphere Administrator job, whoever is running the virtual servers is also running the storage that goes along with it and is installing and maintaining the server OSes etc. Operations means doing it all and not doing any of it really well.

Sure, everything runs and there are by and large no issues, but for example until recently I had no knowledge of FC even though I have been using virtualization for years. Just by chance I am taking over an existing cluster which is using FC SANs.

The long hours in consulting wouldn't be an issue in my case, I already work long hours to get everything done on the operations side and yet there is always something going on that takes time away from learning something new or becoming really good at something. I was talking to an acquaintance of mine who's brother in law is in medical equipment sales and even though that guy has no medical degree of any kind he's right in there in the OR observing and assisting real doctors with the equipment because he knows more about it than anyone else on the planet. That's how I see the guys in consulting, they spend the time that I spend spinning up servers on actually learning why I do the things I do, they simply know more and do more.

Of course this is a bit of a "the grass is always greener over the septic tank" type of deal. Consulting has its issues as well, I am sure, but I feel that looking at it from the outside folks aren't as professionally stuck. I am stuck where I am at. I have been with my employer for 12 years now, I got promoted a few times, doubled my salary in that time, but now I am as high as I can go and I still have a couple decades or more to go in the workforce. I like what I do, I like it a lot and I like the people, but there's little challenge in it anymore.

 

[cyr0n_k0r]

I hate consultants. They show up, think they know what the hell they are doing with what little information management has given them about a project. They never look at the big picture or plan for what someone after them will have to do to management equipment based on their stupid ideas.

Every job I've ever worked at I've had to clean up the mess of shotty consultants that came in and promised a lot and delivered sub par workmanship with little or no support. Then someone that knows just as much as they do (usually more) starts asking "why was it done like this?", "who thought this was a good idea?", "this isn't best practice" and the consultant is long gone.

 

[Child of Wonder]

I hate consultants. They show up, think they know what the hell they are doing with what little information management has given them about a project. They never look at the big picture or plan for what someone after them will have to do to management equipment based on their stupid ideas.

Every job I've ever worked at I've had to clean up the mess of shotty consultants that came in and promised a lot and delivered sub par workmanship with little or no support. Then someone that knows just as much as they do (usually more) starts asking "why was it done like this?", "who thought this was a good idea?", "this isn't best practice" and the consultant is long gone.

Then you've dealt with shitty consultants. I've had dealings with a slew of system and network admins that do the exact same thing, but I don't hate all system or network admins.

As a consultant, I work with some really dedicated people who care about what they do. I've gone out of my way to create documentation to customers, transfer knowledge and teach them about how I do things and why, and to take long term planning into account because I don't want to leave the client with a big mess after I'm gone.

I'm sorry you haven't worked with quality consultants.

 

[Vader]

Every reason why I want out of operations was stated in this thread, but mostly it's the reactive mode that i've been placed in that bothers me most. With IT shops running lean, (mine supports over 5000 users, 5 on-shore and 3 off-shore Datacenters with less than 10 people), i'm finding it very difficult to take preventative measures with my Infrastructure. More and more I see business operations not wanting to invest in technology. Their mantra is "well, it works now, and it's paid for so why would I spend money." It's all hogwash. There is zero alignment where I work and it's frustrating.

Pre-sales consulting is certainly where the money is. My uncle works for Cisco and his pre-sales consultant's base is a six-digit salary, and on top they make a nice commission on the sales. He's been trying to talk me into working there but the jobs that have come up were mostly telecom pre-sales selling Cisco IP Telephony systems..etc...one word..boring..lol. I'm holding out for that job that's going to take me where I want to go, i'm stable now, happy, no, but stable, and my current employer is paying for all my training and providing me an environment to really learn in so I can't complain about that.

Yes, i've seen some really good consultants and some really bad ones, but hey..I have really good engineers, and i've had really shitty ones too, such as life. You can't make a general statement about all conultants because you've had nothing but bad experiences, while I understand why you would say that, your categorizing a large group where you've only dealt with a small fraction.

 

[NetJunkie]

Pre-sales consulting is certainly where the money is. My uncle works for Cisco and his pre-sales consultant's base is a six-digit salary, and on top they make a nice commission on the sales. He's been trying to talk me into working there but the jobs that have come up were mostly telecom pre-sales selling Cisco IP Telephony systems..etc...one word..boring..lol. I'm holding out for that job that's going to take me where I want to go, i'm stable now, happy, no, but stable, and my current employer is paying for all my training and providing me an environment to really learn in so I can't complain about that.

I don't know. Cisco UC (Unified Communication) is getting very exciting these days with the Cius tablet, new thin client/phone devices, and it's all about video these days. You touch a lot of gear. Not to mention the money is very good in it.

 

[NetJunkie]

I hate consultants. They show up, think they know what the hell they are doing with what little information management has given them about a project. They never look at the big picture or plan for what someone after them will have to do to management equipment based on their stupid ideas.

Every job I've ever worked at I've had to clean up the mess of shotty consultants that came in and promised a lot and delivered sub par workmanship with little or no support. Then someone that knows just as much as they do (usually more) starts asking "why was it done like this?", "who thought this was a good idea?", "this isn't best practice" and the consultant is long gone.

As CoW said...you need better consultants, and that's not me being my usual smartass self. There are good consulting groups and there are bad ones. One reason that we are so successful is our relationship with our customers. We know them, their environments, and their strategic plans very well. In fact, I'm often pulled in to meetings with a customer and another vendor (think verticals) that they are talking to because I know their environment and strategic goals better than they do. I was at a customer briefing at Cisco the other week and the person doing the briefing would ask a question, the customers would look at each other, then turn and look at me to answer.

That's not by accident..it is how we've built our business. It's also hard to find quality consultants you can put in the field. You can't just take any good sysadmin and make them a consultant, which is what many groups do. It's not that simple. So one painful thing for us is finding people...I could hire 5 engineers right now if I could find them. Quality is at the top of our list and it isn't on most others. It's not the easy route, but it's the successful route.

Seems like lately we've been going behind other consultants and cleaning up messes, especially around Cisco UCS which is new for a lot of traditional Cisco partners. Data center is a new area for them...and it shows.

 

[defuseme2k]

I don't know. Cisco UC (Unified Communication) is getting very exciting these days with the Cius tablet, new thin client/phone devices, and it's all about video these days. You touch a lot of gear. Not to mention the money is very good in it.

Cisco has contacted me twice now for Cisco UCS / virtualization consultant jobs. I hate to talk about how much I make vs what they offer, I think it is bad form, but while we're talking about our personal goals here -- they do offer "more" than I make now for that type of pre-sales role. It has been as high as 20-30k more when taking the entire package and their past sales numbers as it relates to commission. They've tried to give me a decent idea of what I'd be making if I left what is now a very stable and frankly... fun place to work. They still have an opening in the OKC market area, but I've not made a decision to really pursue it. So far, I've been very reluctant to take a job where I'm not in complete control of the VMware environment. That doesn't mean I control storage, or the network switches, but I do make all the decisions and tell them what to zone or what ports I need this or that way. I usually get involved in the network infrastructure... its amazing how many 'network admins' miss things that aren't even necessarily "virtualization" specific, for a recent example: link state tracking. I bring it up, and I get a lot of confused faces.. oh well. Since I've tried to gear myself to perform both roles within the environment I'm in (meaning I hate consultants pissing in my backyard), I rarely have had an encounter that made any changes to what we're doing. Buying a new product, that might be different, but usually not. Not because I'm blocking or anything, but it has more to do with the fact I've already done/recommended/test what they are going to try and sell us. My relationships with the ones I've worked with is very good (I end up getting them sales, more often than not), in fact the technical conversations I find enjoyable. As an aside, they usually tell my employer that they're in good hands, so if nothing else it validates my decision making and technical skillset. Well, as it relates to VMware anyway. I am VMware nerd. Not that I am not a decent server admin, but I am not a CCIE -- I just understand things as they relate to VMware vSphere . It does ring true, that consultants can be trusted by management more than the local specialist(s), but thankfully I've avoided that the last few years. I think it has more to do with the trackrecord of the administrators that are there. It is hard to undo a good "burn" that management has had to deal with because they listened to you rather than validating your advice. Maybe someone great is there now, but you'll have to prove yourself. Usually, good general admins are like someone else said... know a little about a lot. I'm sure they're good at several things and the whole team manages well, but it is very hard to culminate together to put the big picture together. I for one usually get hated by people who don't like changes, and don't like someone who spends an inordinate amount of time (even outside of the 8-5 day) to be the best they can be. They don't do that, its a job and they go home, so their impression is I am literally attemping to make them look bad... when they don't understand they do that on their own when they roadblock / make an ass of themselves. While I don't like bashing any "group" it does tend to be the previous generation. They believe their career = one place and staying there a long time. Loyalty, etc. However, the fact they've never been anywhere else really puts a damper on their perspective and just lends to the above.

Damn. Wrote a book D:. Better stop there heh.

 

[Vader]

I hear ya on that! I have management that resents the fact that I just know more and that makes him look bad, or so he thinks. My direct reports are very bright individuals and trump me in expertise in certain areas but that's a good thing..it's a very knowledgeable group that works well together and understands the "big picture.". I'll stop there as to keep this post on track.

Back on topic..I understand not taking the position at Cisco because you are happy and that's what you want to do. I'm holding out for the same thing. If I'm going to leave my current company it's going to be for the right job..a job that for once I can enjoy and my stress level goes down while making some forward progress in my life and I think the consulting role would be a step in the right direction.