Build Help, $600-$800 range

[rironin]

Hi, I'm looking to get my first new computer since 2001. Pretty comfortable building it myself, but I don't want to slog through researching everything on my own, as I'll probably end up overlooking something and getting incompatible hardware or something like that. Here are my answers to the stock questions:

1) What will you be doing with this PC? Gaming? Photoshop? Web browsing? etc

• Gaming: I'm into gaming, but I have never played on the bleeding edge. In fact, most of the games I'll likely end up playing are ancient games (Age of Empires, Total Annihilation, Halo for PC, etc) and web flash games. However, I'd like a machine with enough power to run more modern games if I decide to try newer ones out - especially an open-source, fully 3D version of Total Annihilation called Spring which might be resource intensive. My current rig has kept me out of the PC gaming market for quite some time.
• Photoshop/Image Processing: I use photoshop occasionally, nothing too serious - primarily for cartography related to role playing games. I also use an RPG map tool called Campaign Cartographer and RPTools Maptool.
• Video Editing: I have Cyberlink PowerDirector on a work laptop right now and would prefer to use this new home rig for video editing in the future. Home-movie stuff, nothing too fancy, but the more power the better I guess.
• Music/Movies: I listen to music and watch movies on my computer, but at present I don't plan on having or wanting 5.1 surround sound, so that's not required in a sound card.
• Other: Web browsing, word processing, communication apps, all your basic home computing needs not already listed above.

2) What's your budget? Are tax and shipping included?

Let's ballpark it at $600, including rebates, not including tax, shipping, or any other costs. I also have a side question: what would you add or replace on the $600 rig if you had $200 more to work with? I'm interested in knowing what kind of power increases I could get if I sprung for an $800 rig instead of a $600, or if the returns for throwing more money at it will diminish too much for it to be worth it to me.

3) Where do you live?

New England, USA.

4) What exact parts do you need for that budget? CPU, RAM, case, etc. Please be very specific.

The case and everything that comes in it:

• Case
• Motherboard
• CPU
• Video Card & Sound Card
• Power Supply
• RAM
• Hard Disk
• DVD writing Optical Drive
• Any other devices/slots (extra USB ports, etc) that I might need

5) If reusing any parts, what parts will you be reusing? Please be especially specific about the power supply. List make and model.

The only part I'm planning on transferring from the old box is a 100 GB hard drive, a fairly new Seagate I believe. I would be using that drive as a backup for certain data on the main drive, which I want to be larger and faster, and to buy new with the rig.

6) Will you be overclocking?

I don't plan on it.

7) What size monitor do you have or plan to have?

I will be sticking with my IBM 19" LCD Monitor for now.

8) When do you plan on building/buying the PC?

Over the next month, I think. Current machine is so old and slow, I can't take much longer.

9) What features do you need in a motherboard? RAID? Firewire? Crossfire or SLI support? etc.

None of the things listed sound like anything I'll need. I would like a copious amount of USB ports, but aside from that, I just want something fast and expandable, with plenty of room for new devices.

10) Do you already have a legit and reusable/transferable OS key/license?

I'm planning to stick with my copy of Windows XP Pro that I purchased back in college, transferring it from the old computer to the new.

Well, that's about all the info. What do you hardware sages recommend for a $600 rig, and would it be worth it to up it to $800? Thanks in advance for any advice you may have!

 

[lowteckh]

Too tired to bother w/ a new list so...

Previous $600 Build: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1394577

$800

CPU- E7400 - $120

MOTHERBOARD- GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3R - $115 ($15 rebate)

RAM - 4GB G.SKILL DDR2 800 - $46

HSF - XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 - $37 ($10 rebate)

HARD DRIVE - 640GB WESTERN DIGITAL AAKS - $70

VIDEO CARD - POWERCOLOR ATI HD4830 512mb - $105 ($15 rebate)

DVD BURNER - LITE-ON 20X DVDRW - $24

PSU - BFG 550W - $65 ($15 rebate)

CASE - ANTEC P182 - $125

KEYBOARD - LOGITECH ULTRAX - $19

TOTAL (without shipping | before rebates) : $726

You can go with the HIS 4850 for $140 but the 4830 is basically and underclocked 4850 and can be overclocked to perform really well, especially for that price.

 

[lundrog]

I would stay with the stock CPU cooler, and for $109 get this power supply, PC Power & Cooling S75CF 750W EPS12V SLI NVIDIA SLI Certified (Dual 8800 GTX and below) CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail and save some cash and get a cheaper motherboard, MSI G31M3-L V2 LGA 775 Intel G31 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail Same with the case, COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW Black Aluminum Bezel , SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail

Thats - 50 for case, -50 for motherboard, and - 37 for cpu cooler. + for power supply, but better deal over all. Now you can use that money for a better video card.

 

[rironin]

Thanks for the advice. I think I am going to go with the $800 setup, with the addition of a 10000 RPM hard drive for all OS and program files, so that I can reformat the hard drive or reinstall the OS without worrying about data files like music and documents that I will be keeping on the larger, slower storage drive. I think I'll go with this one:

Western Digital Raptor WD740ADFD 74GB 10000 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 1.5Gb/s Hard Drive

Thoughts?

Another thing I guess I'll be needing is SATA cables, since a lot of these parts are OEM and don't appear to come with much. It does look like the motherboard has two SATA cables with it - will this be enough? Any other random cabling you can think of that I might need to get it all assembled?

lundrog, I am interested in the reasoning behind your suggestions. Do you think the BFG 550W Power Supply will be insufficient? As with the others, anything in particular that makes you feel the parts aren't worth the prices, or specific recommendations you made that are cheaper but just as good?

Thanks again to all posters, this is making my search a lot easier. I'm basing it on blind trust in your collective wisdom, but, I feel pretty okay with that so far

 

[lt_shiro]

Raptors are waste of good money.

 

[lowteckh]

You will be mocked and laughed at for getting that drive... just wait for the reactions.

 

[rironin]

Raptors are waste of good money.

Good I get a little elaboration there? I'm interested in your opinion, but I cannot accept your judgement on reputation alone.

I think the idea of getting a hard drive specifically for OS/Program Files is a good one, for the aforementioned reasons. Is a 10000 RPM drive vs. a 7200 RPM drive not worth the modest gains in speed (Average seek times for 10000 RPM drives seem to be about 1 ms, or 25%, less than 7200 RPM drives - how noticeable this would be during normal use, well, I have no idea).

If the idea of a 10000 RPM drive for Programs/OS isn't a bad one, is there another such drive you would recommend? The raptor I linked to seemed to be the best-priced, modestly sized 10000 RPM drive that I saw on NewEgg. Thanks!

You will be mocked and laughed at for getting that drive... just wait for the reactions.

Well, I'm ignorant of these things - that I freely admit. If I must be mocked, so be it, but I hope the mockery comes with justifications for why it's a bad idea or a waste of money. I'm here to learn.

 

[Drakan290]

No, while I think that a dual drive configuration is key to a build, a Raptor rarely fits into a low budget build.
I'd say that you should go with a WD6400AAKS for a main drive, then get an external drive (80-120gb) for documents and etc to backup. Keep in mind you DO want to keep all the data on the 6400AAKS also, just in case you end up losing data for some reason or another. (Lost external drive, drive dies, etc.)

Personally, with the glowing reviews AMD has been getting, I'd say go with them. Here's a sample build:

Antec 300 Case
Biostar TA780G board - Read up on these, you can unlock the 710's 4th core to get a quad core..
AMD Phenom II X3 710
Corsair CX400 PSU
4GB of G.Skill DDR2 800
Sapphire Radeon HD4830
WD6400AAKS Hard Drive
LG DVD RW

This is assuming your 19" monitor is 1440x900 or 1280x1024. You will not need anything more than a 4830 in that case, as your monitor doesn't display high enough resolutions to warrant a higher class video card.

Also, I assume you have your gaming gear (Headphones/speakers, keyboard, mouse, etc.) Otherwise, you will have to downgrade even more.

This build comes to $575 without shipping, and shipping to my house it's $605.
For another $200, I can't really recommend upgrading anything except getting a copy of Vista Home Premium OEM and an X3 720BE or X4 810 processor. Vista will give you DX10 performance, which your HD4830 supports, and games like Crysis, Stalker Clear Sky, etc use.


Edit: To explain the raptor usage, we have to go back in time.
Raptors came out about 5 years ago, they were primarily meant for server drives, where they failed. It's a good ENTHUSIAST drive, but for a budget build, a WD Raptor (previous gen) is equal to or slower than current high capacity platter drives like the 6400AAKS. The only time it wins is in seek times, but the 6400aaks has faster loading times than the raptors.

 

[lowteckh]

6400AAKS and 6401AALS matches and bests the performance of that Raptor and comes within punching distance of the Velociraptor.

 

[engiNURD]

... so that I can reformat the hard drive or reinstall the OS without worrying about data files like music and documents that I will be keeping on the larger, slower storage drive. ...

You don't need 2 drives to do this, you simply need to partition your drive and change system settings to put whatever data files you'd like to keep onto the storage partition. However, I still use 2 drives in all my systems, simply because if one dies, I have another to use while getting the other replaced. I keep a small os partition on my secondary drive, typically.

6400AAKS and 6401AALS matches and bests the performance of that Raptor and comes within punching distance of the Velociraptor.

QFT. http://www.storagereview.com/php/benchmark/bench_sort.php

I have both the old and new raptor, and even with the old raptor, I still did not think it was worth the price premium over other drives. This holds true even more so with the newer VRaptors, since the performance difference between newer 320GB+ platter drives and the VRaptor is even smaller than in the past.

 

[rironin]

Edit: To explain the raptor usage, we have to go back in time.
Raptors came out about 5 years ago, they were primarily meant for server drives, where they failed. It's a good ENTHUSIAST drive, but for a budget build, a WD Raptor (previous gen) is equal to or slower than current high capacity platter drives like the 6400AAKS. The only time it wins is in seek times, but the 6400aaks has faster loading times than the raptors.

6400AAKS and 6401AALS matches and bests the performance of that Raptor and comes within punching distance of the Velociraptor.

QFT. http://www.storagereview.com/php/benchmark/bench_sort.php

I have both the old and new raptor, and even with the old raptor, I still did not think it was worth the price premium over other drives. This holds true even more so with the newer VRaptors, since the performance difference between newer 320GB+ platter drives and the VRaptor is even smaller than in the past.

Many thanks for these explanations. The Raptor is out! I'll use the 6400AAKS as the primary OS and data drive. I'll use my existing 100 GB internal drive or purchase an external drive for backing up the data (right now I don't have anywhere near 100 GB of data, so it's gonna take a while before I need more storage).

Drakan290, maybe this is just me getting attached to lowteckh's original rig, but I'm not sure I want to switch it up and consider an AMD and the corresponding motherboard - I think I like the Intel 2.8 GHz, so unless I get some compelling reasons to do otherwise, for the moment I'm sticking with that.

This is assuming your 19" monitor is 1440x900 or 1280x1024. You will not need anything more than a 4830 in that case, as your monitor doesn't display high enough resolutions to warrant a higher class video card.

Mine's 1280x1024 native, yes. That is interesting - I had been considering the 4850, but you say that it won't really be able to do much for me? If so, then I will gladly go with the 4830 and pocket the difference.

Also, I assume you have your gaming gear (Headphones/speakers, keyboard, mouse, etc.) Otherwise, you will have to downgrade even more.

Correct - all that is taken care of.

With the savings from dropping the Raptor, I am considering swapping the power supplies, lowteckh's suggested BFG Tech GS-550 550W ($70) for lundrog's PC Power & Cooling S75CF 750W ($110). Is the latter one strictly better - and a nice way to spend an additional $40?

Thanks again everyone.

 

[Drakan290]

Drakan290, maybe this is just me getting attached to lowteckh's original rig, but I'm not sure I want to switch it up and consider an AMD and the corresponding motherboard - I think I like the Intel 2.8 GHz, so unless I get some compelling reasons to do otherwise, for the moment I'm sticking with that.Mine's 1280x1024 native, yes. That is interesting - I had been considering the 4850, but you say that it won't really be able to do much for me? If so, then I will gladly go with the 4830 and pocket the difference.Correct - all that is taken care of.

With the savings from dropping the Raptor, I am considering swapping the power supplies, lowteckh's suggested BFG Tech GS-550 550W ($70) for lundrog's PC Power & Cooling S75CF 750W ($110). Is the latter one strictly better - and a nice way to spend an additional $40?

Thanks again everyone.

All right.
The difference between Low's build and mine is a lot. Mostly, the amount of cores. The 710 has 3 cores natively, and it seems that many people are unlocking the fourth core for a cheap quad core processor. It's also got a larger L2 and L3 cache, making it faster and more responsive, coupled with its huge OC potential.
Anyway, I best not explain it, Kyle does it better. The Phenom II 710 is the same as the 720, except it doesn't have an unlocked multi. You can see it beats even the Q8200 in some tests, making it leaps and bounds faster than a E5200.

The 4830 will max any games you have at 1280x1024. There's no need for a 4850.

No, there's no reason to upgrade to a 750w power supply when you aren't even going to be using a 550w PS. Might as well pocket the money.

 

[rironin]

All right.
The difference between Low's build and mine is a lot. Mostly, the amount of cores. The 710 has 3 cores natively, and it seems that many people are unlocking the fourth core for a cheap quad core processor. It's also got a larger L2 and L3 cache, making it faster and more responsive, coupled with its huge OC potential.
Anyway, I best not explain it, Kyle does it better. The Phenom II 710 is the same as the 720, except it doesn't have an unlocked multi. You can see it beats even the Q8200 in some tests, making it leaps and bounds faster than a E5200.

The 4830 will max any games you have at 1280x1024. There's no need for a 4850.

No, there's no reason to upgrade to a 750w power supply when you aren't even going to be using a 550w PS. Might as well pocket the money.

Thanks very much. I'll give the AMD some thought. Power Supply and Graphics card handled. Is there any difference between the 4830 you linked to and the one lowteckh linked to? Same price, but yours is apparently some 24-hour sale.

Also, does anyone know if the heat sink requires that I purchase thermal paste myself or does it come with pre-applied adhesive like other stuff seems to these days? Thanks again!

 

[Drakan290]

Thanks very much. I'll give the AMD some thought. Power Supply and Graphics card handled. Is there any difference between the 4830 you linked to and the one lowteckh linked to? Same price, but yours is apparently some 24-hour sale.

Also, does anyone know if the heat sink requires that I purchase thermal paste myself or does it come with pre-applied adhesive like other stuff seems to these days? Thanks again!

The difference is the brand. I personally don't like Powercolor in the slightest, but it seems low does, and he hates Sapphire. They're both the same card, basically, just made by different people.

You do need thermal paste. I would go with either OCZ Freeze, MX-2, or TX-2; TX-2 being my favorite.

Be sure to apply the heat paste in this fashion on the S1283:

 

[Arcanide]

All right.
The difference between Low's build and mine is a lot. Mostly, the amount of cores. The 710 has 3 cores natively, and it seems that many people are unlocking the fourth core for a cheap quad core processor. It's also got a larger L2 and L3 cache, making it faster and more responsive, coupled with its huge OC potential.
Anyway, I best not explain it, Kyle does it better. The Phenom II 710 is the same as the 720, except it doesn't have an unlocked multi. You can see it beats even the Q8200 in some tests, making it leaps and bounds faster than a E5200.

The 4830 will max any games you have at 1280x1024. There's no need for a 4850.

No, there's no reason to upgrade to a 750w power supply when you aren't even going to be using a 550w PS. Might as well pocket the money.

I agree with Drakan. Since you probably won't be maxing out games and probably will not not need anything truly over the top powerful, even the rig he suggested might be overkill. It will be quick, responsive, can do everything you want and more, and can probably even play more modern games well. You will be happy with that setup. And even if you are not going to overclock, get the Xigmatek. It is better than the stock, and there is nothing wrong with having it a bit cooler, even under your mild OC and Video Encoding.

Good luck with the build =D

 

[engiNURD]

... Be sure to apply the heat paste in this fashion on the S1283:
http://benchmarkreviews.com/images/articles/Best_Thermal_Paste_Application_Methods/HDT_TIM_Application_Two_Lines.jpg[/IMG[/QUOTE]

tsk tsk, no hotlinking images.

 

[lowteckh]

I just pick whatever I see as cheap... I have no brand preference, just whichever has the better stickers, looks and colors (for myself at least).

I haven't had a video card fail once (think I've bought ~10? cards this past half a year) so warranty doesn't concern me. If they have a defect they're usually apparent right away so you can RMA back to the retailer. And on the ATI side, there's no companies that offer special programs like BFG and EVGA, just difference in warranty.

Well, I do have bias - Intel + NV; ECS hater. Not fond of AMD and doubt I will go back after being extremely dissatisfied/burned with my past 4 AMD chips.Yea yea I have a grudge.

 

[lundrog]

I was referring to the WD VelociRaptor, if you had extra cash.
And my point was to go cheap on the components that you wont see a performance benefit from, and putting the cash into a nice Power Supply and Video card.

 

[lowteckh]

Uh, when did you refer to the V.Raptor? the S75CF isn't needed unless you're dual GPUing or strapping 20 hard drives to your system. Your statement of "go cheap on stuff unrelated to performance" contradicts itself...

Motherboard.. yea, I would skimp but some people wouldn't agree (because of the mATX factor!? Who uses all those PCI slots anyways..). I'd choose this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131350 just cuz it's newer and I have it

 

[Arcanide]

I just pick whatever I see as cheap... I have no brand preference, just whichever has the better stickers, looks and colors (for myself at least).

I haven't had a video card fail once (think I've bought ~10? cards this past half a year) so warranty doesn't concern me. If they have a defect they're usually apparent right away so you can RMA back to the retailer. And on the ATI side, there's no companies that offer special programs like BFG and EVGA, just difference in warranty.

Well, I do have bias - Intel + NV; ECS hater. Not fond of AMD and doubt I will go back after being extremely dissatisfied/burned with my past 4 AMD chips.Yea yea I have a grudge.

I am a little like you. I get what is good though. I look for a good priceerformance ratio overall.

Also, I have to comment on the lack of the warranty for ATI. Visiontek offers a lifetime warranty, and XFX just got into making the 4000 series cards with double lifetime warranties so you can be sure that you are in good hands with ATI =D