Boeing 787's Flappy Wings

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Rich Tate

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We’ve covered a lot of the Airbus news simply because it’s so cool. Now Boeing is also trying to put the final touches on their new aircraft, and will be attempting the use of carbon fiber wings. The only catch, no one has ever really tried it. Let’s hope they test it first.

Breaking it isn't necessary for certification, but Bair says the wing is so strong and flexible that there's been talk that maybe it could be bend far enough for the wingtips to touch above the fuselage—or come quite close.
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While that's cool, I doubt that an airplane could bend its wings that far and still have functioning control surfaces, as well as the integrity of vital hydraulic and fuel lines would be compromised. In real world use, it would prolly never come that close to the maximum. Pretty cool, still.
 
Night Black said:
While that's cool, I doubt that an airplane could bend its wings that far and still have functioning control surfaces, as well as the integrity of vital hydraulic and fuel lines would be compromised. In real world use, it would prolly never come that close to the maximum. Pretty cool, still.
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yea thats true... hopefully it will be a success!
 
Teh F22 has carbon wings. Which are built by Boeing. So somebody has tried.
 
I had a gf once that could touch her heels behind the fuselage.
 
There's pictures of the completed aircraft being moved to the paintshop hanger here: http://flightblogger.blogspot.com/ (I'm not involved with this website in any way; I've just found it to be a good resource)

Scroll down to the "Under Cover of Darkness" story.
 
Night Black said:
While that's cool, I doubt that an airplane could bend its wings that far and still have functioning control surfaces, as well as the integrity of vital hydraulic and fuel lines would be compromised. In real world use, it would prolly never come that close to the maximum. Pretty cool, still.
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i'm sure they've engineered the fluid lines to allow for this, as far as control surfaces, at the point the wings were bent like that the plane would have absolutely no lift capabilities at all (the fuselage doesn't exaclty look like a lifting body design) and alierons/flaps would be a moot point......... it would be ideal for sudden forceful events that would shear the wings off a normal jetliner, they are assuming the flex of the wings only in a split-second type of event, where once they returned to normal the aircraft could continue to be aerodynamically sound............ plus, how many times have you heard of the wings on a jetliner falling off? this design would be most useful for preventing metal fatigue that occurs to a normal aluminum wing from flexing and would also save considerable weight, the flexiness of the wings is just a side benefit, a built in safety-net of sorts (with one hell of a cutoff point if the wings are really able to touch tips).............
 
my wife and i were in WA a couple weeks ago to visit family and took the opportunity to tour the Boeing facility. it was pretty cool to see the first 787 on the assembly line. the wing's were definitely a unique sight.
 
coolie_d said:
plus, how many times have you heard of the wings on a jetliner falling off?
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Actually, I have never heard of it. However, I am certain that there are quite a few benefits of trying new materials in airplane construction.

I am glad that there are at least two large airplane manufacturers, since the competition will force both of them to innovate. The geographical and political barriers between them should prevent them from colluding to fix prices or do something similarly detrimental for the consumers.
 
drizzt81 said:
Actually, I have never heard of it. However, I am certain that there are quite a few benefits of trying new materials in airplane construction.

I am glad that there are at least two large airplane manufacturers, since the competition will force both of them to innovate. The geographical and political barriers between them should prevent them from colluding to fix prices or do something similarly detrimental for the consumers.
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Yeah, Boeing has to fight against the gov't subsidized Airbus group, but then again, Boeing also has a defense (IDS) and space arm, and they absorbed McDonnell Douglas, so they have a lot of capital to spend. Nothing like an American corporation for massive massive capital. :)
 
I have no doubt in my mind that this will work great. Whenever boeing puts their minds to something, they come out with something incredible. They have already tested these wings in tunnels, simulations, and in theory, no doubt in my mind that it will work.


Flexable wings is a great thing, especially when you encounter snaps or large air pockets... or even severe storms. Being myself in near two plane crashes due to severe storms, I can say, I appreciate every effort to make these things safer and more flexable.


Since carbon breaks clean, I would be curious to see how this plane (being so much composite) would take in a crash. Especially with wing tips and snappings.

I can also imagine the idea of less maintenece and less things to go wrong due to there being less components, which is also a good thing... less weight means better fuel savings... which is always good for the consumer. I am assuming the thing will have less drag and noise due to the lack of rivets and joints.
 
I've been involved with the building process on many experimental aircraft. Carbon fiber wings have been used for many years, just not in the sheer size of the 787. They will work exceptionally well. It's just surprising that it has taken this long for certified aircraft manufacturers to get there.

Carbon fiber is, expense aside, probably the best possible material to make aircraft skins and wings out of.

The problems will be expense, and also available quantity. Demand for carbon fiber is almost outstripping the industries ability to supply it. Overall production needs to be several orders of magnitude more than it is now. The military wants tons of it, so does Boeing, so does the fledgling private space industry, so do private general aviation aircraft kit makers, and so do aftermarket auto and boat manufacturers as well as racing teams.
 
drizzt81 said:
Actually, I have never heard of it. However, I am certain that there are quite a few benefits of trying new materials in airplane construction.

I am glad that there are at least two large airplane manufacturers, since the competition will force both of them to innovate. The geographical and political barriers between them should prevent them from colluding to fix prices or do something similarly detrimental for the consumers.
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actually, if you reread my post, you'll see that I outlined quite a few benefits:

--- lighter weight
--- alleviates metal fatigue problems in the wing
--- just because it's not likely that the wings will flex that much, it is a "safety net" type of thing
 
coolie_d said:
actually, if you reread my post, you'll see that I outlined quite a few benefits:

--- lighter weight
--- alleviates metal fatigue problems in the wing
--- just because it's not likely that the wings will flex that much, it is a "safety net" type of thing
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Actually.. doesn't carbon fibre have it's own fatigue problems? For awhile I remember that they were having trouble with "delamination" of the layers, especially where heat fluctuations and vibration were involved.

Also, doesn't CF have much less elasticity than metal? I would think that despite its flexibility, it would actually fare worse than aluminum in a test such as the 777's wing load failure test.

I remember several people who bought carbon fibre mountain bike frames waaay back quickly discovered how un-robust a material it is for dynamic conditions (they shattered very easily).
 
Advil said:
Most of the aircraft you see from this kit manufacturer use all carbon for the wings and fuselage. Some really cool stuff here:

http://www.lancair.com/
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Lancair makes great planes.

alphaone said:
Just FYI, the aircraft has its fair share of rivets and joints, just less than other current airliners.
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Yes but less is better in this case. Less to go wrong, less to inspect, and better savings in the long term.

If a plane can dump 5lbs of weight, they'd do it, thats 5lbs more that they can load onto it and make more.
 
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