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BF4 - Any GPU info yet?

LordEC911 said:
Can you please run/test Mantle and show me this potential non/negative gain in performance. Thanks!
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I can't show you a damn thing. There's nothing to show, except marketing slides.

I can, however, point you to just how well AMD's new GPU throttles with temperature, and can posit that if Mantle doesn't do something besides make the driver more efficient, it might not make a difference- the card's already doing all the work it can. Giving it more work faster would just cause it to slow down.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
I can't show you a damn thing. There's nothing to show, except marketing slides.

I can, however, point you to just how well AMD's new GPU throttles with temperature, and can posit that if Mantle doesn't do something besides make the driver more efficient, it might not make a difference- the card's already doing all the work it can. Giving it more work faster would just cause it to slow down.
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That is patently false.
 
And this thread has just died a painful Mantle induced death. There is already 40 mantle threads to murder...why did this one have to suffer the same fate.
 
y0bailey said:
And this thread has just died a painful Mantle induced death. There is already 40 mantle threads to murder...why did this one have to suffer the same fate.
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Not really- more of a directly related side discussion before the retail game gets released and we can see how it's running.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
I can't show you a damn thing. There's nothing to show, except marketing slides.

I can, however, point you to just how well AMD's new GPU throttles with temperature, and can posit that if Mantle doesn't do something besides make the driver more efficient, it might not make a difference- the card's already doing all the work it can. Giving it more work faster would just cause it to slow down.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that Mantle is an improved API. Meaning that where previously a function could take 2 or 3 operations to complete it may only take 1 through the Mantle API. Realistically though we're all going to have to wait until December before we know actual performance numbers. Arguing about it before then with marketing slides forming the axioms is pretty dumb.
 
rdqlus said:
My understanding is that Mantle is an improved API. Meaning that where previously a function could take 2 or 3 operations to complete it may only take 1 through the Mantle API. Realistically though we're all going to have to wait until December before we know actual performance numbers. Arguing about it before then with marketing slides forming the axioms is pretty dumb.
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It replaces DirectX, but we haven't seen any concrete info except that it's supposed to be more efficient on the CPU side. Great for CPU limited situations, but outside of that, we'll definitely have to wait and see.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
You have more information about Mantle than marketing slides?

You can show that the R9 290X's performance isn't tightly coupled with it's core temperature?

Please, keep 'em coming!
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Yes. You do too...

Yes. There are multiple variables involved. To make such a blanket statement about performance is simply ignorant.

rdqlus said:
My understanding is that Mantle is an improved API. Meaning that where previously a function could take 2 or 3 operations to complete it may only take 1 through the Mantle API. Realistically though we're all going to have to wait until December before we know actual performance numbers. Arguing about it before then with marketing slides forming the axioms is pretty dumb.
Click to expand...
Actually, about two weeks.

IdiotInCharge said:
It replaces DirectX, but we haven't seen any concrete info except that it's supposed to be more efficient on the CPU side. Great for CPU limited situations, but outside of that, we'll definitely have to wait and see.
Click to expand...
You are clearly purposefully leaving out more information because you simply don't want to show this technology in a good light. You clearly have an agenda to push.
 
LordEC911 said:
Yes. You do too...

Yes. There are multiple variables involved. To make such a blanket statement about performance is simply ignorant.

You are clearly purposefully leaving out more information because you simply don't want to show this technology in a good light. You clearly have an agenda to push.
Click to expand...

Right. Well, while I'd rather have a discussion, you seem intent on shutting it down without providing anything useful. Please explain what other information is available about Mantle with links, how the R9 290X's performance is not directly linked to it's operating temperature, and just what agenda I'm pushing. Thanks again!
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Right. Well, while I'd rather have a discussion, you seem intent on shutting it down without providing anything useful. Please explain what other information is available about Mantle with links, how the R9 290X's performance is not directly linked to it's operating temperature, and just what agenda I'm pushing. Thanks again!
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There are multiple interviews with people about Mantle.
There are many overviews and breakdowns of how Mantle will be implemented and what benefits it will offer.

Mantle is all about removing the bloat of the API from both the CPU and GPU side of things. It will allow both to work more efficiently, more performance while at a lower GPU load (working less/using less resources) or even more performance while at a similar GPU load.

To think that because Mantle is more efficient it will make the GPU work harder, therefore throttling clockspeed and lowering performance, is ridiculous.

Albeit, there may be times where the benefits of Mantle are nowhere to be found, that is an undeniable truth. I have a feeling where Mantle will truly shine is in those highly complex scenes that tend to cause most GPUs to struggle.

Edit- There were hints that Mantle is scalable/dynamic but exactly how or why was not mentioned. I have my own theories on that but we will know more in 2 weeks.
 
Thanks for the response, it's definitely appreciated.

I remain skeptical of Mantle because it's most obvious benefit is to developers looking to lower development costs. Quick porting through the use of similar APIs does wonders for that.

For gamers, I don't see CPU limitations being a huge deal in the near future- I'd actually expect that to become even less of an issue, as this new console generations moves to a lower-clocked, higher-threaded, moderate IPC processor configuration. By being forced to break up gaming tasks from the beginning, games will natively take better advantage of all of the CPU resources available on most computers; even dual-core Intel or dual-module/quad-core AMD setups will benefit as they can easily balance more threads.

So I don't really expect the CPU side of things to be a huge benefit on the high-end, rather it will likely make more games accessible to gamers using a broader range of hardware.

Now, if Mantle does make the GPU's rendering job easier, that's a definite plus- but the stickler is that AMD and their partners in the game development industry will be under real scrutiny to prove it. And if they just manage to get work to the GPU faster, well, that isn't going to help at all, given just how well AMD's new technology is at maximizing it's performance while staying in it's thermal envelope. I mean, hell, Uber mode is just an increase in the fan speed limit- find a way to make the card cooler, and it runs faster, but it's not going to do any more work if you don't.
 
dremic said:
a single 570 likely will struggle. at 1920x1200 with my 570 i had problems and crazy dips due to vram issues and that was in BF3, considering BF4 is a new iteration of the graphics engine its safe to assume it will have more features that are a bit more cumbersome; i would get a 7970 if I were you especially considering how cheap you can find them. CPU should be okay.
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I always got 50-80 fps with my 570 gtx SC. 1080p ultra with MSAA off. I don't expect BF4 to be much worse, but we will see!
 
Games running decent for me at 4800x900 custom ultra settings, aa set to off, post aa low, no hbao. besides that everything maxed. Getting the odd bit of hitching which I'm guessing is vram related but I've seen the fps up as high as 90 map depending, seems to hover around 50ish mostly.
 
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A bit late to this thread, but thought I would offer advice on your CPU.

I went from an AMD 965 (at stock) to a 4670K @ 4GHZ. Performance jump in ArmA 3 was about double, from 24 to 48 frame rates with most settings maxed out. BF3 I was getting 60s, with drops into the mid 30s-40s. With the new CPU lows are around 45, though they are far less frequent. Overall the game is much more fluid with a frame rate staying around 53-60.

The BF4 beta had bad performance until an update, and apparently, the release version is even better optimized so I can not comment on that.

My advice? Probably time to upgrade the CPU to.
 
Anything from a 2500k to a 4770k over 4.0GHz would do great, though obviously the faster the better.
 
On a side note: Most players seemed to have performance increased when windows 8.1 was installed for the beta.


Windows 8.1 included a Directx update (11.2) with significant changes.
 
Not sure what all it really affects- but gamers should be keeping up with OS changes over time :/.
 
lockdown571 said:
I always got 50-80 fps with my 570 gtx SC. 1080p ultra with MSAA off. I don't expect BF4 to be much worse, but we will see!
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Same here. After the initial optimization patches for BF3 it ran like a dream on my 570 SC.

I ran Ultra as well, but with 2x MSAA on. Card was/is OC'd too.

I didn't get a chance to play yesterday but I'm hoping my 570 can hack it. I know VRAM is going to be my biggest issue without a doubt.

Whether or not I skip the R8/R9 & 7XX series will depend on how my card performs tonight... the pressure!
 
I hadn't gone from 1200p to 1600p, I'd still be running my GTX570 SC- that card was boss.
 
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