Best bang for the buck HD capable HTPC?

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jonjon0nline

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I'm completely new to this and most threads I've found are getting old. I'm looking for HD-DVD/BluRay playback w/ DVR capabilities at 1080p. Would a system I'm looking for fit in a small form factor case?

I don't mind spending money but keeping it cost efficient is a big plus. This is purely going to be HTPC with no gaming needs...

If this topic has been covered please instead of just saying so, provide a link? Thanks in advance! :D



FWIW- It'll be hooking up to a 42" plasma, and would love to have surround sound capabilities too.



edit- Also, if this sounds like a system you've already built, feel free to post away what you have!
 
Dunno about fitting in a SSF. I do know that the hot item to have with HTPCs is LG's Hybrid Blu-Ray/HD-DVD drive for $300. I'm drooling over that myself, but won't be able to afford it until next year sometime. Also, check out NVIDIA's 8800GT. It's the best video card for the money right now.
 
Why would he pay for an 8800GT if he's not playing games? I'd go for an 8400GS, maybe an 8500GT at the most.

I plan on building a HTPC in a NSK-2480 with one of those new nvidia 7100 uATX motherboards to run xbox media center for linux. SFF computers can be just as powerful as full ATX mid-towers.
 
I was planning on getting the LG drive. I know for gaming, the 8800GT is good, but would that be a bit overkill for an HTPC? Wouldn't an HD3870 be better?
 
the hd3870 is overkill for an HTPC also. I agree with schizo about the 8500gt or maybe a 8600gt.

Also, be careful with the plasma. If you leave a static image from the pc up there for too long the image can and will burn in.
 
Thanks for the heads up.

What would make a good tuner card? I don't want slow channel surfing.

I've never watched TV on an HTPC before, how does it compare against... say a Direct TV receiver?
 
I came up with this... can anyone critique?

ASUS M2A-VM AM2 AMD 690G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
EVGA 256-P2-N751-TR GeForce 8600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Brisbane 2.6GHz Socket AM2 65W Black Edition
CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
HITACHI Deskstar T7K500 HDT725050VLA360
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio
Corsair HX520w

What would be a good small form factor case?
 
six_storm said:
Also, check out NVIDIA's 8800GT. It's the best video card for the money right now.
Click to expand...

the 8800GT would be one of the worst choices for a HTPC since it A. lacks hardware decoding and is slower than a $100 8600GT at it (Source) and B. runs much hotter than the mainstream cards (even if you get the Sparkle silent model, it runs over 100*c at load!!!)...not good for HTPC's at all, and C. it's larger than mainstream cards, not good for a HTPC, especially a SFF HTPC....
 
jonjon0nline said:
I came up with this... can anyone critique?

ASUS M2A-VM AM2 AMD 690G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
EVGA 256-P2-N751-TR GeForce 8600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Brisbane 2.6GHz Socket AM2 65W Black Edition
CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
HITACHI Deskstar T7K500 HDT725050VLA360
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio
Corsair HX520w

What would be a good small form factor case?
Click to expand...

i dunno if that would all fit in a SFF case or not, never used or been around a SFF case, but the parts look perfect hardware wise for a HTPC

also consider the HD2600XT which can be gotten passive for about the same price as the 8600GT, it has HDMI output support and also has multichannel audio on board, so you get HDMI audio and video from the video card, that will save you at least some heat and space not having to buy a sound card, my buddy has one in his HTPC and it rocks on his 60" Plasma
 
nobody_here said:
i dunno if that would all fit in a SFF case or not, never used or been around a SFF case, but the parts look perfect hardware wise for a HTPC

also consider the HD2600XT which can be gotten passive for about the same price as the 8600GT, it has HDMI output support and also has multichannel audio on board, so you get HDMI audio and video from the video card, that will save you at least some heat and space not having to buy a sound card, my buddy has one in his HTPC and it rocks on his 60" Plasma
Click to expand...
Thank You for the tip! Which version of the HD2600XT is best?

EDIT: Looks like the Sapphire is best. Unless I'm mistaken? This system will also house the LG BD/HDDVD drive.
 
Here are the 2600XT's that are passively cooled on Newegg, which is perfect for a HTPC, but also takes a bit more space on the back side of the card, something to consider, but they are indeed silent which is always good for a HTPC as long as you have great airflow through your case to cool it

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125075

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161203

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161185

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127298

The only one I can speak of personally, because I ran it for a week while I was waiting on my 8600GT to come in is the MSI he bought (the last one i linked to)

be aware of a couple things though

1. that MSI card does not come with the DVI to HDMI adapter, you have to register the card and submit a request online and pay $8 to get it shipped to you......

2. the integrated audio that comes through the HDMI is probably not quite as good quality as a XFi might be....but honestly, if you are running the audio through a receiver with HDMI passthrough that will be doing the post processing for the audio it likely wont matter.....you wont really be able to use the extras of the XFi if you get it from what i understand, so it will be a heat generating waste of space IMO

others opinions will vary, a lot of people will recommend the XFI for anything audio because they own one....just like people will recommend a 8800GT for a SFF HTPC, because they own one....even if it's completely the wrong card to get

do your own research on those cards before you pick one

my only rub is the warranties...not sure what they are, but most ATI board brands dont offer as good a warranty as Nvidia board vendors.....so you have to look into that and decide for yourself how heavily that will weigh on your purchasing decision
 
Geez, sorry about recommending the 8800GT. I thought I read somewhere in the OP that he wanted to do some gaming. Oh well, this is what a stressful week does to ya. ;)
 
six_storm said:
Geez, sorry about recommending the 8800GT. I thought I read somewhere in the OP that he wanted to do some gaming. Oh well, this is what a stressful week does to ya. ;)
Click to expand...

No worries man. I just built a new rig for my gaming needs and this one will be solely HTPC :D
 
nobody_here said:
Here are the 2600XT's that are passively cooled on Newegg, which is perfect for a HTPC, but also takes a bit more space on the back side of the card, something to consider, but they are indeed silent which is always good for a HTPC as long as you have great airflow through your case to cool it

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125075

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161203

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161185

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127298

The only one I can speak of personally, because I ran it for a week while I was waiting on my 8600GT to come in is the MSI he bought (the last one i linked to)

be aware of a couple things though

1. that MSI card does not come with the DVI to HDMI adapter, you have to register the card and submit a request online and pay $8 to get it shipped to you......

2. the integrated audio that comes through the HDMI is probably not quite as good quality as a XFi might be....but honestly, if you are running the audio through a receiver with HDMI passthrough that will be doing the post processing for the audio it likely wont matter.....you wont really be able to use the extras of the XFi if you get it from what i understand, so it will be a heat generating waste of space IMO

others opinions will vary, a lot of people will recommend the XFI for anything audio because they own one....just like people will recommend a 8800GT for a SFF HTPC, because they own one....even if it's completely the wrong card to get

do your own research on those cards before you pick one

my only rub is the warranties...not sure what they are, but most ATI board brands dont offer as good a warranty as Nvidia board vendors.....so you have to look into that and decide for yourself how heavily that will weigh on your purchasing decision
Click to expand...

Fantastic post! So if I run my audio to a receiver, don't even bother with a sound card?

What case would you recommend? I would really love to stay with a clean SFF.
 
I may have just missed it, but what OS are you going to be using? If it's Vista, then go with the 8600gt. The ATI drivers for HD under Vista are not good at all at this point. If you're using XP then either one will be fine.
 
jonjon0nline said:
Fantastic post! So if I run my audio to a receiver, don't even bother with a sound card?

What case would you recommend? I would really love to stay with a clean SFF.
Click to expand...

well, i am far from an authority on HTPC's, so please, backup your purchases with your own research, but yes, if you bought a 2600 and had a receiver with HDMI passthrough (for the video portion) then the audio receiver will be doing all the post processing and any "EAX" type effects that the XFi adds normally in a PC condition will be cast aside or will actually molest your audio (i am speculating at this point), but fact is, when you want high quality digital surround audio, you dont want the source before the amplifier/receiver to be modifying the data, you just want the data and let the expensive receiver/amp apply the post processing effects you choose, nothing more....at least thats the way i like my sound, unmolested

this case

http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=875

is the one my friend got, it's not SFF, standard i guess for HTPC's, but you would not know it's a PC unless you really looked into things, looks like a receiver with no LCD

i could take a few pics of what things look like on the inside maybe in a week or so, i gotta go out of town on business, but if you were truly interested in going that direction i would be glad to assist

his internals (i sold them to him and set it up for him which is why i know):


Vista Ultimate 64bit
Opteron 165 CPU (got him mildly overclocked to 2.2Ghz)
Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro heatsink (nearly silent and cools really well, and did i mention $25 shipped at Newegg)
EVGA NF41 motherboard
2x1Gb GSkill GBNS PC3200 memory
MSI 2600XT passive cooled (the one i mentioned above, forgot to mention it came with the Black Box from Valve also, added bonus)

he is using a 60" DLP HDTV, connected via HDMI from the 2600XT

at this point he has not yet purchased a receiver to process the audio, so i cannot comment on that portion of it, but as of today the latest official ATI drivers for 64bit Vista are working fine for him

he has actually been playing Portal on the 60" TV with that card at whatever insane resolution that is and it plays beautifully, so there's even gaming action in that card if you chose to


Hurdler said:
I may have just missed it, but what OS are you going to be using? If it's Vista, then go with the 8600gt. The ATI drivers for HD under Vista are not good at all at this point. If you're using XP then either one will be fine.
Click to expand...

so far we havent had any issues other than it wont let him overclock the card, not sure if thats the driver or Vista or what....but it really isnt a big deal, he doesnt need to overclock it anyways
 
Honestly, I wouldn't even bother with HDMI on a PC. Simply put it's just regular SPDIF out and it doesn't support TrueHD which is used in HiDef DVDs (SPDIF doesn't have enough bandwidth for TrueHD which is why they came up with HDMI but HDMI is handled differently on PCs then it is in your regular consumer device).

Now, understanding that, if you're chosen mobos doesn't have SPDIF out on it then it might be useful but if you want to do HiDef DVDs then you're going to have to get a sound card and connect it via analog (the audio gets decoded and then sent to the reciever, this is the only way to do TrueHD decoding on the PC).

Oh, the Silverstone LC17 is a very solid budget choice. Another incredibly good budget case is Antec's NSK24x0 series (either the older 2400 or the new 2480). Having had an NSK2400 (now using their Fusion case) it's a terrific value for what you get, you can't go wrong with it.
Originally Posted by Hurdler
I may have just missed it, but what OS are you going to be using? If it's Vista, then go with the 8600gt. The ATI drivers for HD under Vista are not good at all at this point. If you're using XP then either one will be fine.
Click to expand...
so far we havent had any issues other than it wont let him overclock the card, not sure if thats the driver or Vista or what....but it really isnt a big deal, he doesnt need to overclock it anyways
Click to expand...
There have been several people here (Wiretap was the most recent IIRC) that has had tremendous issues with ATI's Vista drivers when used in an HTPC. I've seen issues about it not passing along audio when used with HDMI, UVD not working (on PCIe cards no less; ATI's AGP cards have a non functional UVD due to drivers), stuttering video and several who have had frequent crashes that went away when they switched to an NV card.

I'm not saying stay away but ATI but it is something to consider. I haven't had an issue with my 8500GT since they were released.
 
CrimandEvil said:
Honestly, I wouldn't even bother with HDMI on a PC. Simply put it's just regular SPDIF out and it doesn't support TrueHD which is used in HiDef DVDs (SPDIF doesn't have enough bandwidth for TrueHD which is why they came up with HDMI but HDMI is handled differently on PCs then it is in your regular consumer device).

Now, understanding that, if you're chosen mobos doesn't have SPDIF out on it then it might be useful but if you want to do HiDef DVDs then you're going to have to get a sound card and connect it via analog (the audio gets decoded and then sent to the reciever, this is the only way to do TrueHD decoding on the PC).

Oh, the Silverstone LC17 is a very solid budget choice. Another incredibly good budget case is Antec's NSK24x0 series (either the older 2400 or the new 2480). Having had an NSK2400 (now using their Fusion case) it's a terrific value for what you get, you can't go wrong with it.

There have been several people here (Wiretap was the most recent IIRC) that has had tremendous issues with ATI's Vista drivers when used in an HTPC. I've seen issues about it not passing along audio when used with HDMI, UVD not working (on PCIe cards no less; ATI's AGP cards have a non functional UVD due to drivers), stuttering video and several who have had frequent crashes that went away when they switched to an NV card.

I'm not saying stay away but ATI but it is something to consider. I haven't had an issue with my 8500GT since they were released.
Click to expand...

i can see that....i can say before he got his HDMI adapter he didn't have any issues running DVI output and sound through the Audigy2 sound card, i think if he was to get a sound card he may as well get a Audigy2 to save some cash unless the XFi adds TrueHD support
 
wanting a budget, but powerful htpc system is easily possible, esp if you consider buying from the for sale/trade thread here for some items.

for example, my build i'm building this week, just waiting on ram to arrive:

CASE: nsk2480 with 380w PSU ($55 after rebate at frys.com) this case comes on sale a lot.
HSF: I had an intel HSF left over from another build that i'm going to use, you can either purchase an aftermarket HSF, or buy the retail CPU.
CPU: e6550 oem ($125, bought this OEM cpu from a forum member here on hardforum).
MOBO: GIGABYTE GA-G31MX-S2 ($75, a semi cheap decent matx mobo that supports 1333fsb and 800mhz ram)
RAM: gskill 2gb kit ($50, you don't need OCable ram, and you can find a lot of 2gb kits for $50).
GPU: eVGA 8600GT ($90 after rebate)
HDD: Samsung Spinpoint 500gb ($100, if you need the space and you will if using as PVR, but if not and have a server, u can save a lil by getting a smaller HDD)
TUNER: SAPPHIRE Radeon Theatrix 650 ($65, many tuners available at that price).

Total: ~$560

you can save money if you want a 8500gt instead and smaller HDD.
 
CrimandEvil said:
He'll need an Xfi if he wants to decode TrueHD.
Click to expand...

ahh ok, thanks for confirming my suspicion

of course he needs a receiver capable of decoding TrueHD as well to make it worth it, but yeah, thats the idea

wonder if TrueHD is really worth all the extra hardware cost over DD5.1/DD ES/DTS/DTS ES, etc....
 
Great discussion guys! I want to keep the price reasonable but I also want to make sure I can build something with longevity. a $1200 HTPC that lasts me 4 years is better than an $800 HTPC that'll last 2 and already be terribly outdated.

I was already able to pick up a 600w Silverstone modular PSU, RAM and CPU. This project is well on its way!
 
nobody_here said:
ahh ok, thanks for confirming my suspicion

of course he needs a receiver capable of decoding TrueHD as well to make it worth it, but yeah, thats the idea

wonder if TrueHD is really worth all the extra hardware cost over DD5.1/DD ES/DTS/DTS ES, etc....
Click to expand...

Well, if he's got the Xfi then he doesn't need a TrueHD capable reciever because the Xfi is doing the audio decoding and then just passing the decoded audio over to the reciever. The reciever isn't decoding the audio for it so it doesn't matter if it supports TrueHD or not.
 
If you have a TrueHD capable receiver, then passing the stream for TrueHD audio can be done using the ATI cards. No need for the xfi, and you maintain TrueHD audio.

My Yamaha RX-V3800BL does this decoding, and I would rather have it do the work rather than the x-fi. Also that is 1 less card in my silent HTPC.
 
It should. I don't see much reason why not but I also don't know what your "desired hardware" is.
 
Treyshadow said:
If you have a TrueHD capable receiver, then passing the stream for TrueHD audio can be done using the ATI cards. No need for the xfi, and you maintain TrueHD audio.

My Yamaha RX-V3800BL does this decoding, and I would rather have it do the work rather than the x-fi. Also that is 1 less card in my silent HTPC.
Click to expand...

I have no idea what your smoking but it's not passing TrueHD over HDMI (as said before it's just regular SPDIF audio passed along with HDMI path and SPDIF doesn't have enough bandwidth for TrueHD).
 
CrimandEvil said:
I have no idea what your smoking but it's not passing TrueHD over HDMI (as said before it's just regular SPDIF audio passed along with HDMI path and SPDIF doesn't have enough bandwidth for TrueHD).
Click to expand...

To much bad information being passed along as fact CE. You know this as much as I do it is the way of things.

As to the orginal topic...my thoughts.

Video Card : nVidia 8500GT (8600GT is a better). Right now in the Vista arena (which makes doing the whole HDCP issue a bit easier), nVidia is doing a better job. Even if you do comparisons on other sites...the CPU strain difference is not significant enough to warrant ATI over nVidia. I run an 8500GT now in my main PC and my HTPC. They do a fine job.

Audio: As CE mentioned, we are still screwed on that front in terms of single cable solution and full quality audio. If you want to the full uncompressed audio...you need a sound card and the appropriate software that can do it. This means a bundle of cables going to your amp/receiver. Time can heal this wound...but I wouldn't bet anything on it. But honestly, I would put this lowest on the priority. The old S/PDIF system still does a decent job and thus is a case of "if you don't hear it side by side, you probably won't notice it". Therefore if you need to save costs...this is a fair spot to do it. However, if you got the dollars...DO IT. ;)

Processor: A 6600 duo (or better, but not much). There are some HD streams that have stupid high bit rates. While most of the material you find out there today won't stress your system much...there is material which can put some hurt on your system (especially some of the material that is available online). Worst case is you underclock your system and best case is you won't get studder.

Drive: Get the dual format drive and be done with. Just remove it from the argument and enjoy the movies you want to watch. Getting into the whole Blu-Ray/HD DVD debate is pointless. I don't know, I thought the whole point of using a PC as a playback device is so you don't have to make a choice and thus watch whatever you want. ;)

Right now the pricepoint for a good, all format, HTPC is about $1k. However, it is a good price point. Anything less can cost you dropped frames...anything more may not gain you much. It is just the number that keeps coming up with the last three HTPC's i've built for some friends/neighbors.

As for SW...PowerDVD is prime choice for HD DVD/Blu-Ray. Althought a bit expensive, it usually works. It is a novel thought that software shoud work...but hey, how can they sell us upgrades if it works right the first time. :p For other formats...MPC/Zoomplayer/VLC are reasonable choices and I have decent results with both (use zoomplayer personally right now).
 
I currently have a HTPC with an X2 BE-2300 running at stock fanless and an ATI X1650PRO with AVIVO. Do you guys know if this older gen video card does any CPU offloading at all for HD content? I haven't tested yet because I don't have the LG drive yet but I'm wondering if I need to upgrade to an 8500GT or if my current setup can handle 1080p content.

I have played 720p downloaded episodes of various shows and it handles these wonderfully but the CPU load on 720p I'm assuming is much less than 1080p.
 
Oops, shoulda done some quick research myself before asking questions, but I quickly found this from ATI's website in case anyone else was wondering. All the X1600 series includes hardware decoding of pretty much all video formats. Very happy that this old hardware can accelerate VC-1 and H.264 decoding.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Avivo™ Video and Display Platform

* High performance programmable video processor
o Accelerated MPEG-2, MPEG-4, DivX, WMV9, VC-1, and H.264 decoding and transcoding
o DXVA support
o De-blocking and noise reduction filtering
o Motion compensation, IDCT, DCT and color space conversion
o Vector adaptive per-pixel de-interlacing
o 3:2 pulldown (frame rate conversion)
* Seamless integration of pixel shaders with video in real time
* HDR tone mapping acceleration
o Maps any input format to 10 bit per channel output
* Flexible display support
o DVI 1.0 compliant / HDMI interoperable and HDCP ready **
o Dual integrated 10 bit per channel 400 MHz DACs
o 16 bit per channel floating point HDR and 10 bit per channel DVI output
o Programmable piecewise linear gamma correction, color correction, and color space conversion (10 bits per color)
o Complete, independent color controls and video overlays for each display
o High quality pre- and post-scaling engines, with underscan support for all outputs
o Content-adaptive de-flicker filtering for interlaced displays
o Xilleon™ TV encoder for high quality analog output
o YPrPb component output for direct drive of HDTV displays*
o Spatial/temporal dithering enables 10-bit color quality on 8-bit and 6-bit displays
o Fast, glitch-free mode switching
o VGA mode support on all outputs
o Drive two displays simultaneously with independent resolutions and refresh rates
 
The X1600 doesn't support MPEG-4, DivX, VC-1, and H.264. Only the HD series does; what you did was look up Avivo and not actually your video card.

Another other then the HD series only support MPEG2 acceleration.
 
CrimandEvil said:
The X1600 doesn't support MPEG-4, DivX, VC-1, and H.264. Only the HD series does; what you did was look up Avivo and not actually your video card.

Another other then the HD series only support MPEG2 acceleration.
Click to expand...

he is correct, Avivo abilities vary based on the hardware (specific model video card) being run on, you'll get more functionality from the Avivo list out of a newer card than the x1600
 
CrimandEvil said:
The X1600 doesn't support MPEG-4, DivX, VC-1, and H.264. Only the HD series does; what you did was look up Avivo and not actually your video card.

Another other then the HD series only support MPEG2 acceleration.
Click to expand...

" Radeon™ X1650 Graphics Technology - GPU Specifications...

Avivo™ Video and Display Platform
* High performance programmable video processor
o Accelerated MPEG-2, MPEG-4, DivX, WMV9, VC-1, and H.264 decoding and transcoding"

I copy and pasted directly under x1650 GPU Specifications which is different than what you find under other video cards, including the HD series. This leads me to believe that perhaps the X1-series also had SOME support for these formats. This is what is under GPU specifications for the HD series:

The features are very different, so I'm sure the HD series is much better at decoding these formats but the X1-series seems to have some capability.

"ATI Avivo™ HD Video and Display Platform

* Dedicated unified video decoder (UVD) for H.264/AVC and VC-1 video formats
o High definition (HD) playback of both Blu-ray and HD DVD formats
* Hardware MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG-4/DivX video decode acceleration
o Motion compensation and iDCT (inverse discrete cosine transform)
* Avivo Video Post Processor
o Color space conversion
o Chroma subsampling format conversion
o Horizontal and vertical scaling
o Gamma correction
* High Quality Video Post Processing
o Advanced vector adaptive per-pixel de-interlacing
o De-blocking and noise reduction filtering
o Detail enhancement
o Inverse telecine (2:2 and 3:2 pull-down correction)
o Bad edit correction
"
 
Well, it doesn't. This wouldn't be the first time that a manfacture got their own info wrong (NV's Purevideo supported table has been wrong since forever and ATI has had similar issues, specifically regarding HDCP support on their older cards, so this is hardly new).
 
Ok, I put off this project due to holidays and busy schedule.

Anywho, I have the following for this thing:

Thermaltake Lanbox Lite
Gigabyte GA-MA69GM-S2H AM2 AMD 690G HDMI Micro-ATX
AMD 5000+ Black Edition
2x1GB DDR2 800 Corsair XMS RAM
320GB Seagate
750GB Western Digital

Now I need a recommendation on the tuner card and video card. I was set on an 8600GT but should I get a 512MB or 256MB version? Does it matter?

Also, what is the best possible tuner card to receive/record HDTV? I'm thinking either the VisionTek 650 PCIe or the Hauppauge HVR-1800.

EDIT: Looks like I'll be going with the AVerMedia AVerTV for my tuner card =P. Still need that video card question answered though.
 
Hey! I'm building an almost identical system (mobo/CPU/RAM), except that I'll be using the Silverstone SG01 case, as we want it to fit the system in some cube shelves we have below the 46" Samsung this will be feeding into. The main difference is that we're going to be doing some gaming on this bad boy. I, like you, am really stuck on the vid' card thing. There are countless reviews on what looks to be the latest/greatest, the 8800GT and 3870, but most of them only show gaming benchmarks. I'm pretty comfortable that either of these cards will be able to play games @ a playable framerate, but the clincher for me is how much the video card will take the load off the CPU when we're watching movies. If we spend $1000+ on a HTPC and movies stutter (either from the 'net or on disc), I'll be pretty disappointed. As for the DVD-ROM, I'm thinking of saving $100 and getting the Pioneer Blu-Ray / DVD-R, rather than the Blu-Ray / HD drive. Let's stay active in this thread and report our results, eh?
 
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