BenQ GW2320 - super-cheap (108 EUR) 23inch flicker-free IPS in review

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ufoncz

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found some scary video. None of TN monitors which I used till now had such problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kimUy2tVzk
Is it related to fact it is old and cheap IPS panel or quality control at LG or Benq? Are other IPS monitors better?
My next monitor will be also TN like current and previous because such problem is unacceptable.
 
That is moderate IPS glow and is a standard "feature" of the technology. Pretty horrible isn't it? I would prefer a TN to that also but that video doesn't show how good the colors are. If you work with a lot of dark content the search for a glow free cheap IPS probably isn't worth your time. An MVA might be the way to go. They are sort of in between Ips and tn on color quality and also generally offer much better darker colors and shades.
 
From cheap IPS monitors, the better solution is AOC i2369Vm. It has 2x HDMI and DP port, so can be used in eyefinity, and it costs about 25 euro more, than BenQ
 
I like the Bezel design seems to be a Euro only model unless someone can find somewhere in the states. Would like to try it for the flicker free.
 
I'm displaying following things on my PC:
75% - light text with various colours on black (IDE / text editor / web browser)
5% - dark text on white
10% - low bitrate video (Youtube)
10% - FPS games
Web pages contain mostly artificial graphics or Photoshopped photos with fake colours. I don't edit photos.
I can see flicker on my monitor. Many new monitors are PWM free according to review, but manufacturer doesn't claim it. I can't play lottery because returning doesn't have to possible or will cost money and time.
Benq VA monitors are often too bright for text (90 cd) and too slow for FPS games (GW2760HS : without big overshoot 12-34 ms in many cases).
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/benq_gw2760hs.htm
I'm also worried about readability of text with various colour and background because subpixels are solid in case of TN, but divided in case of VA or IPS.
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/panel_technologies.htm
 
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KDE said:
I'm displaying following things on my PC:
75% - light text with various colours on black (IDE / text editor / web browser)
5% - dark text on white
10% - low bitrate video (Youtube)
10% - FPS games
Web pages contain mostly artificial graphics or Photoshopped photos with fake colours. I don't edit photos.
I can see flicker on my monitor. Many new monitors are PWM free according to review, but manufacturer doesn't claim it. I can't play lottery because returning doesn't have to possible or will cost money and time.
Benq VA monitors are often too bright for text (90 cd) and too slow for FPS games (GW2760HS : without big overshoot 12-34 ms in many cases).
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/benq_gw2760hs.htm
I'm also worried about readability of text with various colour and background because subpixels are solid in case of TN, but divided in case of VA or IPS.
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/panel_technologies.htm
Click to expand...

Well this was a cheap monitor thread I thought? :) If you don't want glow, and you want a fast "cheap" monitor that you don't have to return, then get a TN--you are absolutely correct that they tend to suffer from fewer QC issues. But the colors will obviously be less exciting.

And MVA does suffer from those things on the low end but let's just assume you won the lottery for the sake of argument. I can't help but wonder if you'd like the Eizo FG2421 for what you do. My task breakdown is surprisingly similar to yours, with more emphasis on Youtube and fantasy games and less FPS... and yet I've found this "gaming monitor" to be the only fast (120Hz) LCD out right now that satisfies me all around. IPS is close because the colors are so good but glow kills it and they aren't 120Hz generally (unless you get lucky and don't mind overclocking your box with a dodgy warranty). The FG2421 is overpriced considering the number of possible flaws--feint crosshatching/strange but small light "bleed" on dark colors that are non-black/dead pixels out of the box--but if you get a proper one it is a bit like having a CRT. More so than any other LCD monitor available anyway. I absolutely love watching Youtube content and browsing on this monitor because the contrast ratio (mine is a measured 3500:1) allows for details that you don't get on TNs or IPS because they exist at color gradients that are too dark for these panels' tech. to produce--so they just come out black. Here, for example with video content that isn't shot with proper light, the FG2421 finds details that are fun to have. The girl isn't just a brunette right... she's got individual strands of hair. Some of the strands are a little darker than others... and the FG knows. :D

It seems to be a love it/hate it kind of thing for people, though. I have one nagging issue with the model and that is a very feint sort of vertical texturing across the middle of the screen. It is pretty much on all of them (well all 5 I've tested/kept 2) but it varies in intensity slightly. One of mine has it a bit worse than the other. In point of fact, it is completely invisible unless gray is scrolling across the screen. A good example is browsing this website (change the colors, Kyle!) the dark gray primary background color upsets this display slightly and a bit of uniformity with slightly darker vertical splotches becoming visible. Scrolling intensifies the effect but it's really very minor. Another good example of it is scrolling through "smoke" in a game. At a fast pace it's not worth mentioning, and again it's a specific set of color gradients that make it visible to the eye but it really just represents grayscale uniformity issues in an unfortunate sort of "pattern", if you will. If but for that ONE issue, this monitor on my desk would be an instant classic like the Sony FW900, in my humble opinion. Unfortunately it also has crosshatching if you go looking for it on lighter gradients of gray blue and green, and even a cursory look through the [H] FG2421 thread will probably scare you off. People don't want to pay $600 for a 24" 1080p monitor and I don't blame them. I felt sort of forced by an LCD market which simply doesn't serve up good deep color at super fast pixel response and low input delay.

Damn it... I went way off topic. This was supposed to be a cheap monitor thread. My point is, pretty much at any palatable price point there are still going to be QC issues. Even on a $1000 24" monitor--they still get returned 5-10% or something crazy like that because display technology is inherently imperfect. It is always a question of compromises.
 
KDE said:
found some scary video. None of TN monitors which I used till now had such problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kimUy2tVzk
Is it related to fact it is old and cheap IPS panel or quality control at LG or Benq? Are other IPS monitors better?
My next monitor will be also TN like current and previous because such problem is unacceptable.
Click to expand...

I would rather have ips glow, then black crush, gamma shift, color shift, oversaturated - unrealistic colors, worse viewing angles and so on.

1 con > many cons. Oh, and btw, talking about shadow detail as a con on IPS? lol.
 
psyside said:
Oh, and btw, talking about shadow detail as a con on IPS? lol.
Click to expand...

At me?
Not sure if trolling:/
Compared to a VA with REAL measured contrast ratios of up to 5000:1, yes IPS has shadow detail issues, especially when you bring a lot of glow and lightbleeding into play.

A lot of the "cheap" IPS panels are being measured at well below their industry standard claim of 1000:1. 280:1 is horrible and yes, you will feel it (if you know what to compare to) when you are trying to pick out your braking points at night while racing, or trying to shoot a dude hiding in an alleyway in the face or just browsing on the web trying to see the finish on a laptop that your monitor is claiming is plain, drab, black/grey from one side to the other.

If you get an IPS with a contrast ratio of 1500:1 like Overlord is claiming for their Tempest line (always out of stock ><) then you are good to go. But that's the trick, spending your money in the right place at the right time and getting a good panel is not going to work out for everyone. Properly calibrated a lot of these IPS will have bad shadow detail compared to a VA or CRT, which is what we should be shooting for. Accurate colors from bezel edge to edge.
 
Bluesun311 said:
Well this was a cheap monitor thread I thought? :)
Click to expand...
I mentioned GW2760HS because you suggested MVA and there is detailed review for it.
GW2760HS isn't expensive, but it is worse for me than TN monitor which means higher price can't be justified.
FG2421 supports 120 Hz, but response time is 12-44 ms in some cases according to TFT Central.
Response time should be lower than frame time - 8.33 ms at 120 Hz. It has subpixels divided into 4 parts. I would consider it only with price of 60 Hz TN monitor.
http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2014/test-eizo-fg2421-teil4.html#Coating
 
KDE said:
I'm also worried about readability of text with various colour and background because subpixels are solid in case of TN, but divided in case of VA or IPS.
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/panel_technologies.htm
Click to expand...

I found some opinions like following that confirm that TN has sharpest image:

Mike63 said:
I've owned both types of VA panels as well as IPS and TN displays. Based on this experience as well as my observations of many different displays over the years, I would say TN>IPS>A-MVA>S-PVA with respect to overall sharpness. I'm not sure why it should be a surprise that TN produces the sharpest picture, since the RGB subpixels of a TN display are simple rectangles. The subpixels of IPS and VA panels are either not rectangular or else they divide into non-rectangular parts at partial brightness. Obviously the shape of the subpixels affects image quality and especially text, and again, it shouldn't surprise anyone that the simplest, most well-defined pixels will produce the sharpest images.
Click to expand...
 
KDE said:
I mentioned GW2760HS because you suggested MVA and there is detailed review for it.
GW2760HS isn't expensive, but it is worse for me than TN monitor which means higher price can't be justified.
FG2421 supports 120 Hz, but response time is 12-44 ms in some cases according to TFT Central.
Response time should be lower than frame time - 8.33 ms at 120 Hz. It has subpixels divided into 4 parts. I would consider it only with price of 60 Hz TN monitor.
http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2014/test-eizo-fg2421-teil4.html#Coating
Click to expand...

Yeah. Like I said, cheap monitor thread. Sounds like you want a TN because you think any other tech is too slow. So why come in here worrying about IPS glow in the first place? IPS/pls are slower too. The point is this: if you're being cheap and you are worried about glow or dead pixels because you can't exchange a monitor then yep TN for you--but TN's are really gross to look at so you're really just shooting yourself in the foot. Coming into a thread about a cheap IPS monitor and pointing out they glow is like going to a cheap TN thread and pointing out they have shitty colors and bad viewing angles and blah blah blah. If you knew so much about display tech then how did you not know what IPS glow was? I don't blame you for not wanting an fg2421 but you came in here to start a TN is better argument and very few people are going to go with you on that, probably only the people who are "stuck" with TNs like you are.
 
Bluesun311 said:
Yeah. Like I said, cheap monitor thread. Sounds like you want a TN because you think any other tech is too slow. So why come in here worrying about IPS glow in the first place? IPS/pls are slower too. The point is this: if you're being cheap and you are worried about glow or dead pixels because you can't exchange a monitor then yep TN for you--but TN's are really gross to look at so you're really just shooting yourself in the foot. Coming into a thread about a cheap IPS monitor and pointing out they glow is like going to a cheap TN thread and pointing out they have shitty colors and bad viewing angles and blah blah blah. If you knew so much about display tech then how did you not know what IPS glow was? I don't blame you for not wanting an fg2421 but you came in here to start a TN is better argument and very few people are going to go with you on that, probably only the people who are "stuck" with TNs like you are.
Click to expand...
Latest IPS monitors have response time 8-12 ms which should be fast enough because it is less than 16.6 ms frame time at 60 Hz. I know about IPS glow, but don't have experience with it. That video is described as backlight bleeding. I didn't know what is displayed in that video.
 
Bluesun311 said:
At me?
Not sure if trolling:/
Compared to a VA with REAL measured contrast ratios of up to 5000:1, yes IPS has shadow detail issues, especially when you bring a lot of glow and lightbleeding into play.

A lot of the "cheap" IPS panels are being measured at well below their industry standard claim of 1000:1. 280:1 is horrible and yes, you will feel it (if you know what to compare to) when you are trying to pick out your braking points at night while racing, or trying to shoot a dude hiding in an alleyway in the face or just browsing on the web trying to see the finish on a laptop that your monitor is claiming is plain, drab, black/grey from one side to the other.

If you get an IPS with a contrast ratio of 1500:1 like Overlord is claiming for their Tempest line (always out of stock ><) then you are good to go. But that's the trick, spending your money in the right place at the right time and getting a good panel is not going to work out for everyone. Properly calibrated a lot of these IPS will have bad shadow detail compared to a VA or CRT, which is what we should be shooting for. Accurate colors from bezel edge to edge.
Click to expand...

U2412M for example, will destroy 95% of the VA screens regarding shadow detail.....not sure about your unit. Its not just about contrast, its about consistency of it, what if i got 3500:1 but useless for greys/shadows....1500:1 on IPS is not happening, especially after calibration.

gamutintergdiagram1600.jpg


Where are the details behind the kid? :D no legs? lol.

3544cff30441cea8.jpg


How about that rocks in the background? contrast? where is the contrast now?

And how about a video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOkGjFru4x0
 
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Well the pics with the kid definitely illustrate a significant problem that CAN exist on a VA but it doesn't tell us which panels those are. The pics with the chick show how gray and flat blacks are sometimes without good contrast and though I see your point I prefer the photo to the right. I don't want or need details that will only come out if you destroy the gamma on the low end and the 2333T is a very well loved 1080p display being compared to a 1650 IPS that was super hq. They are both pretty ancient too like 6 yrs old-- IPS tech has gotten worse in that time in some ways. The amount of glow and backlight bleeding is terrible in avg displays.

IMG_02301_zpseff91b49.jpg~original

This picture is with an iPhone 4S but if your monitor can show the kids legs than this should prove that the modern Sharp MVA panel in my Eizo FG2421 (which I recognize is expensive) doesn't have problems with black crush or gamma shift anywhere near that intensity. In fact, you get a good idea that there's a mirror and a doorway behind the kids legs even. It has other unfortunate "features", of course.
 
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I just found out that BenQ updated a few of their gaming monitors to flicker free they were not at first
but some are now. So I picked up a BenQ RL2455HM it's cheap enough to try out anyway all the monitors I have now are of ASUS variety which on TFT central dont' list PWM as included which could
be a problem I have with fatigue.

I'll post when I get it...
 
Why change the subject man? we where talking about shadow/black details in movies, you pointed this as bad part of IPS tech? but its completely the opposite the details you talk about are missing on VA panels, not on IPS! and i can tell you that the washed out look - glow, on the picture with the girl, is more of an angle-picture problem then it is in rl, yes it is there, bur alot less.

What benefit you could possibly have of darker blacks/contrast if you can't see shit in then black parts of the movies? please tell me with straight face, that you are serious that you prefer the picture on the right? Also look at her face, skin tones, LOL, that's pretty much terrible!

Also...no comment needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWqD1zb9tvc
 
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I don't think the Samsung 2333t is much use as an example as those old cPVA screens had absolutely horrible black crush.

As for the picture of the boy, I dunno what's up with that but my VA screens (which, admittedly, are not budget models) can reproduce his legs quite clearly.
 
psyside said:
Why change the subject man? we where talking about shadow/black details in movies, you pointed this as bad part of IPS tech? but its completely the opposite the details you talk about are missing on VA panels, not on IPS! and i can tell you that the washed out look - glow, on the picture with the girl, is more of an angle-picture problem then it is in rl, yes it is there, bur alot less.

What benefit you could possibly have of darker blacks/contrast if you can't see shit in then black parts of the movies? please tell me with straight face, that you are serious that you prefer the picture on the right? Also look at her face, skin tones, LOL, that's pretty much terrible!

Also...no comment needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWqD1zb9tvc
Click to expand...

OK you're arguing for the sake of arguing at this point, so I'm about to be out. You think VA can't handle shadow detail and your IPS is perfect so there's nothing wrong to even debate. I'm happy with my display; you're happy with yours. I do not need to have a "better" display for competitive reasons, I wanted a better display so I could see the details I was missing from "cheap" displays whether they be IPS or TN--at any price they cannot do what the FG2421 can with deep colors. Period. That said, I'm not being a snob, I'm LOOKING for a good 27" WQHD IPS/PLS but the search is frustrating because the panels are often so horrible with dark color uniformity.

So yeah, I'm not changing the subject, and even though you can't see my face I prefer the 2333T to the Dell above. At least in the photo, perhaps in person it would be easier to choose as I've never seen either one of them in person. But I perfer real black to fake black, even at the expense of some detail--and I went for the best MVA I could possibly find to try to keep black crush and gamma shift to a minimum. The other guy with the TN preference would hate it because it ghosts a little, I guess. But he also thinks response time at 120Hz is higher than at 60Hz which is an error it is not worth my time to try to correct.
 
No no man, sorry if you got me wrong, but you pointed about some hair details and similar stuff about being IPS weak side regarding blacks. So i wonder why this turned around in different subject, all is good.

Sorry if i was rude in anyway.

Also about the pic, the pic is showing what someone is seeing on his VA screen, not you guys on yours units. The legs are not visible because when he made the photo, there was no detail in the first place.
 
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