Backing up a Win2K3 Fileserver and Win2K3 MSX2K3 Server

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aphex187

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I have 2 servers that are going live soon and I wanted to find out what people would recommend for backup.

1 server is mainly a FILESERVER running Win2K3 using RAID5. With approx 240gb (120gb x 2 mirrored).

1 server is an EXCHANGE 2K3 runningWin2K3 using RAID5. With approx 320gb (160gb x 2 mirrored).

Looking at tape, you pay a LOT of money for NOT a lot of storage. Tape would work for the exchange server initially, but a year or so down the line, we would surpass the 80GB that current (affordable) DLT drives would provide.

The fileserver is already looking at over 100GB of data that would need to be backed up.

Would external hard drives be the way? What software would you guys recommend? Sticking with something like Veritas or using Ghost Corporate to mirror the drives incrementally on a nightly basis?

Thanks for your time!
 
screw backups, live dangerously! get rid of the mirrors too, its room begging to be filled with pr0n.
 
In the enterprise arena, automated tape backup systems are the way to go. You could start with four deck system and work your way up as time goes on and storage needs rise. Veritas NetBackup and a good automated LTO is your friend.

And why are you RAID5'ing and mirroring the drives? Keep a hotspare and/or a coldspare for your RAID5 array and drop the additional mirroring. What is your exact hard drive configuration because 2 drives is not a valid RAID5 set unless you are using software raid with dynamic disks (cringe!).
 
Orinthical said:
In the enterprise arena, automated tape backup systems are the way to go. You could start with four deck system and work your way up as time goes on and storage needs rise. Veritas NetBackup and a good automated LTO is your friend.

And why are you RAID5'ing and mirroring the drives? Keep a hotspare and/or a coldspare for your RAID5 array and drop the additional mirroring. What is your exact hard drive configuration because 2 drives is not a valid RAID5 set unless you are using software raid with dynamic disks (cringe!).
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I apologize, I should have been more specific.

The servers are using 4 drives in the RAID5 configuration. For example, 2 160gb drives are striped (~320gb), then they are mirrored. This is being done in case of HDD failures. We are paranoid about disk failures after going through one last year.

Automated tape backup sounds great - but the cost is extremely high. We are not a huge business.
 
aphex187 said:
I apologize, I should have been more specific.

The servers are using 4 drives in the RAID5 configuration. For example, 2 160gb drives are striped (~320gb), then they are mirrored. This is being done in case of HDD failures. We are paranoid about disk failures after going through one last year.

Automated tape backup sounds great - but the cost is extremely high. We are not a huge business.
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It sounds like you are actually using Raid 10 or Raid 0+1, not Raid 5. You may want to look at Sony AIT tape drive systems. The drives themselves are a little up there in price but the tapes can hold quite a bit of data (AIT-3 or AIT-4) and don't cost a lot per tape.
 
As aug1516 stated that sounds more like 0+1 or 10, which is fine and (R10) used in database farms quite a bit. Though I'd recommend you go RAID5 and get a little more storage for your equipment dollar. A RAID5 array is much more efficient and in some cases can even handle multiple drive failures; whereas with your 0+1, if a drive from each array dies at the same time... you're restoring from tape anyhow.

In our enterprise environment we run RAID5 (3 physical drives usually) on almost all of our windows systems and use a SAN as our storage. The RAID5 array is merely hosting the OS and swap partitions.

Drive failure is a fact of life in an enterprise, you can't avoid it completely so we must develop ways to cope with it. Intelligent arrays, nightly and weekly backups and regular trips to the server room keep things in check.

In a RAID5 array, if a single disk fails and no hotspare is available, throughput will be weakened but the array will remain functional and people can still access the server. When you replace the drive with a new/functioning drive then the array will begin repairing itself in the background while still remaining available with reduced throughput. Frankly, it's the way to go... but that's just my opinion. =)

If you're running Exchange 2K3 and doing any form of clustering, you really need to start looking at purchasing some SAN real estate.
 
You could buy a series of good capacity firewire external hard drives and use them as your backups, at least for a while. Turn compression on and you can find some decent drives for your rotation that have a lot of storage. Batch files (xcopy, robocopy) can move file system stuff, or NTBackup can do system state stuff and more.

If that still is too much to spend, you're running out of options to back up that much data for any good rotation. I would say DLT tapes are the best bet (MUCh better than external drives like I've mentioned).


But, unlike so many things in IT where you can find open source or free tools or code things yourself and solve problems cheaply, storage space is one place you don't have much wiggle room when it comes to costs. Kinda like hardware (well, it IS hardware): when you need it, you need it, you can't just build it or hack it.
 
Thanks for all your feedback guys. One more question, what would you guys recommend for backup software? We've used Veritas Backup Exec but I'm wondering if there is something less complicated out there. BE just seems to have so many options it can get confusing at times.
 
I just got "volunteered" to be the support guy for the computers at my wife's office, and SBS 2003 seems to have some pretty decent backup software built in. It let me schedule backup times, what dirs to ignore, how many backups to keep, etc... Looks like it supports differential backups too. She just backs up to a couple of external USB2.0 drives, and swaps them out every couple of days.

But this is my first experience with any of this (I'm a hardware guy), so I really don't know how well the built in backup compares to a 3rd party solution.
 
NTBackup works just fine, and is free. It is not the most robust, perhaps, but does a decent enough job.

There is software called Legato, but I would suggest staying away from it, massively confusing and terrible interface.

Veritas Backup Exec or other Veritas software is pure gold when it comes to backups. You can't beat it, imo.
 
for an enterprise solution it wont work but for my little server that hosts http://foxenforums.mine.nu/ and some other stuff, I just use ghost 2003. it rocks so much! I: have an 8GB part for os, 3.4GB for the net stuff, and back those up whenever I feel like it... now how to set task scheduler and ghost 2003 up to reboot, build new images, and reboot back into windows automatically....
 
LonerVamp said:
NTBackup works just fine, and is free. It is not the most robust, perhaps, but does a decent enough job.

There is software called Legato, but I would suggest staying away from it, massively confusing and terrible interface.

Veritas Backup Exec or other Veritas software is pure gold when it comes to backups. You can't beat it, imo.
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i wouldn't try to use Nt backup to backup a DB. We use Birghtsor ArcServe and have a few net backup setups as well. Both work well when you purchase the correct agents for your network. I would suggest an autoloader setup and i don't see you e-mail server surpassing 80GB anytime soon. I would have probably ordered a DAT72 in the exchange server and done an auto loader or they have drives/tapes that hold 160GB compressed. I mean who runs their file server to 100% anyways? Oh ya. External firewire/usb drive unaccaptable in a business invironment.
 
Like others have said... The way to back up a large system is with a good tape library. We use a 23 slot library with 2 SDLT 110/220 drives. This setup runs about $25K, but you can adjust accordingly to your needs. For backup software I suggest BackupExec. I don't think you need the extra features of NetBackup yet, and NetBackup is REAL expensive.

Look at how much you back up. Look at how long you have to do it. You don't want to be backing up your file server after users get to work. Open files slows the whole process WAY down. So set up a backup window you can use and make sure your tape and software can be done in that window.

Also look at offsite tape storage. What good are tapes when your building burns down? There are companies that pickup/dropoff according to your rotation.
 
While true that DLT tapes are 80GB, you can compress the data on them. I've done jobs where I've gotten 150GB of data onto a single DLT IV (albiet flat text file databases).

Veritas works well. You can do incremental backups so you're not backing everything up every night; just the changes (or you can do working sets, so everything from the past week is on the tape).

How big are you looking for exchange data? It sounds like a small(er) shop with only one file server and one exchange server. Are you running exchange standard or enterprise? A single standard edition exchange server is limited to a 16GB database.

I use a Overland Data Neo 2000 x 2 connected with an elevator & Veritas BackupExec. My nightly backups are 50GB and 30GB (two jobs) and contain a working set of files modified during the past two weeks. Weekend full backups are about 200-250 GB a piece and usually run about two tapes per job. I've got about 80 mailboxes & my mailbox store is ~5GB. Public store is a couple more GB. Things are pretty managable with the robotic library. I could probably get away with a 4 tape autoloader, but the library makes things so much easier.
 
da sponge said:
(in your sig)
Damn. Those alien bastards are gonna pay for shooting up my ride.
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OMG ROTFLMAO! I remember that! the last great DOS game.
 
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