ATI Editorial 10/10/05

[Spank]

The 5.7 cats didn't boast any preformance increase, and again, nice strawman attack

They did't?, where did you get this info ?

 

[{NG}Fidel]

I never stated that they wouldn't get more preformance via their drivers over time, strawman attack.

I was responding to your general arguement. Your post in general was insiuating that performance wont increase with this new ATi Hardware. I just posted that in the past Drivers for ATi Cards brought improvements upwards to 30%.

The 5.7 cats didn't boast any preformance increase, and again, nice strawman attack

One of the 12 updates didnt improve performance? Really the 5.7s worked well in Source games for me. Even if some people did not get any performance gains that doesnt mean much.

Terra - I can see someone eats PR for breakfast

What that needed? just because one thing he said may be wrong you say he is some blind PR following dog....
Meh I hate flaming unless its needed.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

The 5.7 cats didn't boast any preformance increase, and again, nice strawman attack

Terra - I can see someone eats PR for breakfast

LOL... nice try! Funny how were we talking about how drivers over the next 3-5 months would increase performance yet you are talking about drivers almost a year after the X8x0 product released......

Again - nice try though.

They did't?, where did you get this info ?

He read it at nvnews.net

 

[gostriker]

I enjoy reading hard hittting assessments of Ati weaknesses. Also expect to see a hard hitting assessment of IQ for both companies. This really is what is missing for me in all the current reviews, IQ is just blown off. No one even compared Nvidia's new wonder drivers with their older sets. All I have read here so far is fair critic of Ati and isn't Nvidia perfect fluff.

 

[Terra]

I was responding to your general arguement. Your post in general was insiuating that performance wont increase with this new ATi Hardware. I just posted that in the past Drivers for ATi Cards brought improvements upwards to 30%.

Again you try and scew the debate, please read my post again, you seem to have misread something...
All I stated was that monthly driver-release is insurance for increased preformance.
Realate to that, and don't try and put words into my mouth...

One of the 12 updates didnt improve performance? Really the 5.7s worked well in Source games for me. Even if some people did not get any performance gains that doesnt mean much.

You have just proven that my statement about the monthly release, thank you

What that needed? just because one thing he said may be wrong you say he is some blind PR following dog....
Meh I hate flaming unless its needed.

It was needed...he was jusr barking off the ATI pr, so I adressed that...

Terra - And I can see he wnet even further than me, but that you didn't adress...wonder why

 

[Terra]

They did't?, where did you get this info ?

At Anandtech

Terra...

 

[fallguy]

Just ignore terra, you will thank me later for it.

No comment on the 90C+ temps most people seem to be getting on their cards?

Seems they STILL weren't ready to ship....either the drivers (reporting incorrectly) or HSF (not working good enough) solutions seem to leave much to be desired!

My 6800GT had a load of 87v. It didnt catch my house of fire, despite you thinking its a fire hazard.

 

[Terra]

LOL... nice try! Funny how were we talking about how drivers over the next 3-5 months would increase performance yet you are talking about drivers almost a year after the X8x0 product released......

You really need to get everthing in with a spoon don't you?
Find a place where I stated that?
I dare you
Again, all I did was slam you "ATI PR" monthly driver release crap.
So you try and do a strawman-attack on me and put word in my mouth I never uttered, since you coudln't aruge my point.
That was neither bright nor true...

Again - nice try though.

Th<t was a bad attempt at copy-cat...

He read it at nvnews.net

Actually it was at Anandtech, but I guess when you have no argument, you just put on autoplito and spew your usual fanyboi-comments

Terra - Funny post, but little value....

 

[Terra]

Just ignore terra, you will thank me later for it

Kettle calling the pot black .

Terra...

 

[Chris_Morley]

IIRC, the one person on these forums that I saw had bought this card used a SFF case...not exactly the best environment for ANY high end video card. A friend of mine bought a fragbox with a 6800U and had ridiculously high temps and ended up selling it and getting an X800XL to stop his computer from crashing and having absurdly high temps.

I will bet you $25 that it was the MSI RS480 M2 motherboard with its crappy ATI chipset that was causing the crashes with NVIDIA cards.

/is currently writing an eval on the FragBox

 

[1c3d0g]

Again you try and scew the debate, please read my post again, you seem to have misread something...
...

Don't worry Terra, we're already used to that from him...

 

[tornadotsunamilife]

I will bet you $25 that it was the MSI RS480 M2 motherboard with its crappy ATI chipset that was causing the crashes with NVIDIA cards.

/is currently writing an eval on the FragBox

Since it's basically ati first chipset I think it's done well to meet the standards that nforce series is now known for (although usb speed is very poor on the ati mobo's )

 

[OldBoy]

Since it's basically ati first chipset I think it's done well to meet the standards that nforce series is now known for (although usb speed is very poor on the ati mobo's )

That's not hard given the "standards" of the nforce chipsets

 

[Jbirney]

Your talking like NVidia doesn't have brand new hardware for which new drivers can be written.

Granted NV hardware is still "new" it shares a lot in common with the NV40 cores (in fact some may agure its a tweaked, higher piped vrs of the nv40) so NV has had some time to tweak that design. However ATI's new R520 is a mucher "newer" design to them as it has lots of things they have not "seen" before (32pp, PS3.0, Ring Mem Controller, ect). Thus since ATI has a newer design to them, they stand to have more area that they can optimize and get some performance gains....

And again, having driver some out at an regular interval, dosn't mean jack for preformance.
They don't code faster for that reason, the don't get a "magical" 1-month-release boost, the speed enhancments would come just as fast as if they released drivers when there was made improvements.

Well thats fair enought. As your right that a monthy driver release does not mean perfromance will increase. But it does give us some consistancy and time frame to expect updates to ocure at a set basis. And with a brand new core it foolish to think that no optimizations will go on. Fact it sooner or later you will see some..and my bet is sooner...

 

[razor1]

Granted NV hardware is still "new" it shares a lot in common with the NV40 cores (in fact some may agure its a tweaked, higher piped vrs of the nv40) so NV has had some time to tweak that design. However ATI's new R520 is a mucher "newer" design to them as it has lots of things they have not "seen" before (32pp, PS3.0, Ring Mem Controller, ect). Thus since ATI has a newer design to them, they stand to have more area that they can optimize and get some performance gains....




Well thats fair enought. As your right that a monthy driver release does not mean perfromance will increase. But it does give us some consistancy and time frame to expect updates to ocure at a set basis. And with a brand new core it foolish to think that no optimizations will go on. Fact it sooner or later you will see some..and my bet is sooner...

Only place ATi will get performance out of there drivers is possibly optimizing its drivers for thier new memory controller, they probably already did that very well. Shader pipeline hasn't changed much so the compiler isn't going to give any more boost. 32pp has nothing to do with drivers since thats just registry space. PS 3.0 not really its not that much different from PS 2.0 other then some new extensions.

 

[Optimus]

Both came out at the same time? Hardly!

I'm sorry, you're right. The 7x00 series came out the day it was announced where as the crossfire cards came out months after announcement and the X1x00 series came out days after announcement, both of which happened about a month or two after the 7x00 series.

Support more DirectX? Hardly!

What rock have you been under? There was a full page announcement on the [H] devoted to the fact that the X1x00 series is not fully DX9 compliant because it is missing a very versatile vertex memory function.

Man you are as misinformed as Terra!

Well, this Terra must be a very informed individual if you believe her to be misinformed, considering your batting a thousand so far.

The X1Ks are good with SM3.0 intense games and slightly behind the 7800s in Less Shader intensive Games.

By less shader intensive games, you mean Half-Life 2, Far Cry, and Doom 3? Because last I checked those games were almost nothing but shaders.

The G70 has been out for a while and it is really based off the NV40 Core. They have gotten pretty much all the performance they can out of it I think. The X1K is a brand new core design for ATi and as a result drivers should show at most a 30% boost over time. With Dual Core Drivers they should get more but that wont work for everyone.

For the most part I agree, but I don't think they've hit the limit on the G70 by any means.

Granted NV hardware is still "new" it shares a lot in common with the NV40 cores (in fact some may agure its a tweaked, higher piped vrs of the nv40) so NV has had some time to tweak that design. However ATI's new R520 is a mucher "newer" design to them as it has lots of things they have not "seen" before (32pp, PS3.0, Ring Mem Controller, ect). Thus since ATI has a newer design to them, they stand to have more area that they can optimize and get some performance gains.

I agree, yet again, for the most part, and I expect them to squeeze a large amount of performance out of that new memory controller design over the next few months. But what you forget is that ATI announced problems with the X1x00 series that were holding it back a few months ago. Thus the newer design is actually NVidia's, even if it is more of an upgrade than an entirely new design.

Just ignore terra, you will thank me later for it

Terra, I'm sure he meant "Just ignore [them,] Terra..."

 

[R1ckCa1n]

Sorry, I didn't read your reply. Will get back to it soon.

edit: your rebutal wasn't really anything to comment on so I will pass. My case is built on gaming experience with the drivers and how well it increases performance AND IQ improvements. Not a websites theory.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

I will bet you $25 that it was the MSI RS480 M2 motherboard with its crappy ATI chipset that was causing the crashes with NVIDIA cards.

/is currently writing an eval on the FragBox

WRONG. You can PM me for my paypal account so you can deposit $25.00 in it!

The Shuttle has the new ATI Express200 chipset and works very nicely. I have tried an X1800XL with no real problems (other than the 20c high reading on the core). The system now has a 6200 in it for HDTV display.

 

[{NG}Fidel]

Again you try and scew the debate, please read my post again, you seem to have misread something...

Terra I have to apolagize! I did read your post wrong, I thought you were saying that ATi doesnt stand to gain much from new drivers. Sorry about that, seems me and you are on the same page after all.

What rock have you been under? There was a full page announcement on the [H] devoted to the fact that the X1x00 series is not fully DX9 compliant because it is missing a very versatile vertex memory function.

Its not missing this function, it just performs it diffrently. We have two ways of making Vertex Texture fetch work and neither has been proven faster. Nvidia has the upper hand in terms of no additional coding is needed for their card but if its proven slower the point is moot.

By less shader intensive games, you mean Half-Life 2, Far Cry, and Doom 3? Because last I checked those games were almost nothing but shaders.

Doom3 is a Nvidia Win 24/7. Its Open GL and the NV40 and G70 Hardware was designed with that game's needs in mind. Half Life two is an odd case but it is not super intense on Shaders but they dont use quite allot. Still I cant even try to explain why Nvidia takes the cake (Ableit by a small margin). Far Cry is allmost like HL2 in the fact that its a TWIMTBP game but plays much better on ATi hardware. Then we have COD2, FEAR and BF2 running much smoother on the X1800XT. This round is intresting for sure.

 

[FrgMstr]

WAY off topic. Time for a thread of its own.