"arctic dimond"

T

the_village_treky

Gawd
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
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i just had a realy smart/dumb idea. you know those pesky micro dimonds(their ubiquidios, come from astriods and are EVERYWHARE). what if arctic silver intigrated micro dimonds into its thermal compound. dimonds are one of the best conducters known to man, and these microdimonds are everywhay, why not? would it not perform better than just strait up AS? now pleas point, laugh, and tell me im stupid
 
It would work very well, but would probably be uber expensive and not worth the effort and cash.
 
killernoodle said:
It would work very well, but would probably be uber expensive and not worth the effort and cash.
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Not necessarily.. They're too uber small to be worth anything to a jeweler or collector (eh whaa?) and there is tons of it.. It might be somewhat expensive to mine though, which guess could bring up the price.. Unless it's readily available for AS to purchase the stuff, then maybe..

I guess what I'm saying is all just contradicting everything else I'm saying..
 
what about indurial grade diamonds?
like those they use to coat saw blades and drill bits with? hell or the better quality stuff they use in knife sharpeners like the DMT sharpeners...they are not stupidly expensive so you could use those....
 
Visable-assassin said:
what about indurial grade diamonds?
like those they use to coat saw blades and drill bits with? hell or the better quality stuff they use in knife sharpeners like the DMT sharpeners...they are not stupidly expensive so you could use those....
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No those are yellow diamonds and just wouldn't do. Actually, I don't know how fine you can grind up diamond, but would diamond suspended in silver really aid conduction? I think it would be negligeable at best.
 
nweibley said:
No those are yellow diamonds and just wouldn't do. Actually, I don't know how fine you can grind up diamond, but would diamond suspended in silver really aid conduction? I think it would be negligeable at best.
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industrial diamonds are the same as jewelry diamonds except they have flaws...be it color or "impurities" other than that they are the same.
 
If they can figure out how to micronize diamond like they do silver, this idea would work quite well. But considering diamond is the highest item on the Moh hardness scale, I have no idea how they would do that. Also, does anyone know micrnized silver comes from a chemical process or is it simply pulverized silver?
 
industrial diamonds are the same as jewelry diamonds except they have flaws...be it color or "impurities" other than that they are the same.

- It seems funny that you can post about this when you have no idea about the topic - why just not reply rather than make up b.s. about it? I have been searching through these forums for info about graphical artifacts that appeared after replacing my hsf (arctic pro 3), and the difficulty of doing this has been at least tripled due to people making up crap like the above, when they have no idea, but still feel compelled to post about it (Visable assasin and new wibely).


B.t.w Industrial diamonds do not have flaws, that is the point (made under controlled tempratures and pressures)- a real diamond, formed over millions of years is distinguishable from one that has been made synthetically by its flaws (ask a jeweler) ..

And yellow diamonds?? WTF?? what factual basis do you have for saying that wouldn't do?

I don''t normally post in these forums, but people like the above really s%$t me. How about If you don't have any idea - don't pretend you do and do all us a favour
 
wouldnt diamonds be bad... all i can think of is thermal compound scratching a processor core =/
 
ryuji said:
wouldnt diamonds be bad... all i can think of is thermal compound scratching a processor core =/
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If it ever happened, the diamond would be like powder almost, and would be too small to scratch the core from the simple action of pressing a heatsink down. If you moved the heatsink around a lot, it might scratch the core - but would probably damage the core with any thermal compound if you moved the heatsink around that much.
 
redshifted said:
B.t.w Industrial diamonds do not have flaws, that is the point (made under controlled tempratures and pressures)- a real diamond, formed over millions of years is distinguishable from one that has been made synthetically by its flaws (ask a jeweler) ..
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while you are screaming about "checking facts", you might want to check yours:


http://www.mii.org/Minerals/photodiamond.html

Diamond forms at extremely high temperatures and pressures, conditions that are only possible very deep in the Earth’s crust or even the upper mantle. Large diamonds, particularly large diamonds without flaws, are extremely rare. These flawless diamonds are very valuable as gemstones. The vast majority of diamonds are small, flawed and colored by dark impurities. These impure diamonds are used in industrial uses.

Before we could "make" diamonds, industrial grade diamonds came from somewhere...we weren't always cranking out man-made diamonds for drill bits. :rolleyes:

Encarta is your friend:

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/RefArticle.aspx?refid=761557986

Most diamonds used as gems are single crystals large enough to be easily visible to the eye. Diamond also occurs, however, in polycrystalline forms commonly known as ballas, bort, and carbonado. Ballas is a compact, spherical mass of tiny diamond crystals of great hardness and toughness. Bort is an extremely hard, dark, imperfectly crystallized diamond. The term bort sometimes is also applied to minute fragments of gem diamonds. Carbonado is an opaque grayish or black form of diamond that consists of microscopic crystals and has no cleavage. Ballas, bort, and carbonado are all used industrially, in lapidary (gem-cutting) work, and as a tough coating for the tips of drills and the edges of cutting tools.
 
redshifted said:
industrial diamonds are the same as jewelry diamonds except they have flaws...be it color or "impurities" other than that they are the same.

- It seems funny that you can post about this when you have no idea about the topic - why just not reply rather than make up b.s. about it? I have been searching through these forums for info about graphical artifacts that appeared after replacing my hsf (arctic pro 3), and the difficulty of doing this has been at least tripled due to people making up crap like the above, when they have no idea, but still feel compelled to post about it (Visable assasin and new wibely).


B.t.w Industrial diamonds do not have flaws, that is the point (made under controlled tempratures and pressures)- a real diamond, formed over millions of years is distinguishable from one that has been made synthetically by its flaws (ask a jeweler) ..

And yellow diamonds?? WTF?? what factual basis do you have for saying that wouldn't do?

I don''t normally post in these forums, but people like the above really s%$t me. How about If you don't have any idea - don't pretend you do and do all us a favour
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you need to check your facts man...industrial diamonds ARE the same as jewelry diamonds...but they have flaws,impurities,color,size so seriously check your facts before you make yourself look like an ass.

oh wait Steve went ahead and slapped you for me...next time before lashing out..sit back and do some more research man. I knew damn well what the difference was...YOU apparently did not.
on a side note, last I recall man cannot make a diamond..cubic zarconia doesnt count...so how can there be a synthetic daimond? (again CZ's dont count)


Steve said:
while you are screaming about "checking facts", you might want to check yours:


http://www.mii.org/Minerals/photodiamond.html

Diamond forms at extremely high temperatures and pressures, conditions that are only possible very deep in the Earth’s crust or even the upper mantle. Large diamonds, particularly large diamonds without flaws, are extremely rare. These flawless diamonds are very valuable as gemstones. The vast majority of diamonds are small, flawed and colored by dark impurities. These impure diamonds are used in industrial uses.

Before we could "make" diamonds, industrial grade diamonds came from somewhere...we weren't always cranking out man-made diamonds for drill bits. :rolleyes:

Encarta is your friend:

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/refpages/RefArticle.aspx?refid=761557986

Most diamonds used as gems are single crystals large enough to be easily visible to the eye. Diamond also occurs, however, in polycrystalline forms commonly known as ballas, bort, and carbonado. Ballas is a compact, spherical mass of tiny diamond crystals of great hardness and toughness. Bort is an extremely hard, dark, imperfectly crystallized diamond. The term bort sometimes is also applied to minute fragments of gem diamonds. Carbonado is an opaque grayish or black form of diamond that consists of microscopic crystals and has no cleavage. Ballas, bort, and carbonado are all used industrially, in lapidary (gem-cutting) work, and as a tough coating for the tips of drills and the edges of cutting tools.
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Thank you for the bitch slap Steve :p
 
actually I remember reading about it. You can make diamonds, if I recall right there were two competing methods. One using chemical vaporization and the other using the conventional pressure approach. De beers(sp?) was making a big deal about how they couldn't represent love because they didn't exist for millions of years. I don't have the link to the article, but I distinctly remember it. Anyways, I think the cost outway's the benifits, you have to remember that this is only the substance between the heatsink and cpu. I don't think you can get diamonds into as small particles as silver either(I could be wrong)

edit: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html found the link, and proved my point.
 
Well since we are discussing the issue allready those very processes are today refined to make (in the future) wafers for integrated circuits at whole new speeds. (Can U say CPU:s :) ) unfortunatley thex hadnt been able to create more then a square cm or so of the stuff when I looked last (last summer). But the idea sound good tho.
 
id use "arctic diamond" in the same computer i use liquid helium to cool :D
 
archevilangel said:
actually I remember reading about it. You can make diamonds, if I recall right there were two competing methods. One using chemical vaporization and the other using the conventional pressure approach. De beers(sp?) was making a big deal about how they couldn't represent love because they didn't exist for millions of years. I don't have the link to the article, but I distinctly remember it. Anyways, I think the cost outway's the benifits, you have to remember that this is only the substance between the heatsink and cpu. I don't think you can get diamonds into as small particles as silver either(I could be wrong)

edit: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html found the link, and proved my point.
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Nice read up....Ill retract my statement about man made diamonds now.
However I wont retract about industrial grade stones being different than jewelry grade with the exception of what was mentioned before.
now only if they could fab a diamond big enough to some how mill into a heatsink.... :eek:
 
HeThatKnows said:
Why would yellow diamond just not do?
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Who wants to spread rust colored AS on their CPUs? Not I.
That sh!t better be bling like so if I'm paying the $$$ for diamonds ;)

I was just being a jackass :)
 
Visable-assassin said:
Nice read up....Ill retract my statement about man made diamonds now.
However I wont retract about industrial grade stones being different than jewelry grade with the exception of what was mentioned before.
now only if they could fab a diamond big enough to some how mill into a heatsink.... :eek:
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Not so much for use as a heatsink, because that's not really using the technology as a breakthrough. They need to get on the ball with the diamond semiconductors though, can you imagine that? It would be insane would they could do with chips! *drools*
 
it seems that diamond actually conducts heat not by the movement of electrons like in metal, but rather by certain atomic vibrations within the crystaline structure. pulverizing a diamond into fine powder would seem to inhibit then the characteristic conductance of the diamond for a thermal paste type application... i'm just speaking out of my butt here, but that's just a thought.

besides, i found that diamond is "only" five times more conductive than copper, so using a silver and/or gold compound instead may get you really darn close for the money...
 
Sunstoned said:
it seems that diamond actually conducts heat not by the movement of electrons like in metal, but rather by certain atomic vibrations within the crystaline structure. pulverizing a diamond into fine powder would seem to inhibit then the characteristic conductance of the diamond for a thermal paste type application... i'm just speaking out of my butt here, but that's just a thought.

besides, i found that diamond is "only" five times more conductive than copper, so using a silver and/or gold compound instead may get you really darn close for the money...
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Micron-scale particles are NOWHERE near the atomic size scale (speaking relatively), so I doubt the smaller particle size would have any more effect on diamond than it does on metals.
 
point is, if the crystaline structure is what conducts the heat away, what will conduct the heat *between* the microcrystals? the micronized silver works because the electrons etc can "jump" around, but the crystal harmonics would not be able to perform this jump... the thermal paste would definately have a much higher tolerance for heat (say you were trying to cool a core that ran at 2000 degrees, which would simply melt the arctic silver), however, i don't think you would gain any improved heat dissapation, just a higher threshold of heat before breakdown....
 
Sunstoned said:
point is, if the crystaline structure is what conducts the heat away, what will conduct the heat *between* the microcrystals? the micronized silver works because the electrons etc can "jump" around, but the crystal harmonics would not be able to perform this jump... the thermal paste would definately have a much higher tolerance for heat (say you were trying to cool a core that ran at 2000 degrees, which would simply melt the arctic silver), however, i don't think you would gain any improved heat dissapation, just a higher threshold of heat before breakdown....
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I see your point, but I still think it's the same situation with silver particles. The silver particles conduct heat to the liquid suspension and vice versa. Same happens with diamond particles. As far as heat tolerance goes, I don't think any suspending agent would be able to withstand such high temperatures. This is related to what kept bothering me throughout that article. Silicon is not the only material that conducts heat in a CPU - what about the metals like copper, aluminum, gold, etc that make up other parts like interconnects and bridges? My point is that diamond substrates are not the solution to hot processors, but better cooling is.
 
zer0signal667 said:
Silicon is not the only material that conducts heat in a CPU - what about the metals like copper, aluminum, gold, etc that make up other parts like interconnects and bridges?
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Ah, two flaws.

1) Diamond's ability to conduct heat is 2 orders of magnitude (10x10=100) times more than silicon.

2) Diamonds ability to conduct heat goes up to 1000's of degrees! Well above the melting point of any metals.
 
What's mentioned in the WIRED article is that they could make CPU's out of the man-made diamond - that could withstand significantly higher temps. We could all use passive cooling on our 100Ghz CPU's!!

mmmmmm silent PC's......

Mutt
 
think about graphics chips made out of dimond. hell, we may even not need heatsinks. i mean, in 10 years we will be looking back on phase-changeing, WC, and things like sp-94's and say "what the hell did we need all that for?"

anywhay, for a truely silent pc, i just cant wait for a dimond pc.
 
dabiggoober said:
Ah, two flaws.

1) Diamond's ability to conduct heat is 2 orders of magnitude (10x10=100) times more than silicon.

2) Diamonds ability to conduct heat goes up to 1000's of degrees! Well above the melting point of any metals.
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What are the flaws...?

1) I know, but I don't understand your point

2) If you're saying diamond has a much higher melting point than these metals, then yes, that's my point. We can't have CPU's running at X000*C because the metallic components would not survive. Maybe if the whole CPU was constructed with carbon components... but that's a bit into the future.
 
dabiggoober said:
2) Diamonds ability to conduct heat goes up to 1000's of degrees! Well above the melting point of any metals.
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Ahh, no. Most metals have a melting point well above 1000C.
 
Parja said:
Ahh, no. Most metals have a melting point well above 1000C.
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I said diamonds into (1000)'s with an s. Many thousands. What follows is a chart. With the exception of tungsten (3399c) I don't think that would be a problem.

Metal Fahrenheit (f) Celsius (c)
Aluminum 1218 659
Brass 1700 927
Bronze 1675 913
Cast Iron 2200 1204
Copper 1981 1083
Gold 1945 1063
Lead 327 163
Magnesium 1204 651
Nickel 2646 1452
Silver 1761 951
Steel 2500 1371
Tungsten 6150 3399
Wrought Iron 2700 1482
Zinc 787 419
 
zer0signal667 said:
What are the flaws...?

1) I know, but I don't understand your point

2) If you're saying diamond has a much higher melting point than these metals, then yes, that's my point. We can't have CPU's running at X000*C because the metallic components would not survive. Maybe if the whole CPU was constructed with carbon components... but that's a bit into the future.
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Now i understand. I mis-interpreted and stand corrected. Regardless, running a CPU at 400 degrees centigrade because the substrate could easily handle it is different than today's world with silicon no?
 
"To grow single-crystal diamond using chemical vapor deposition, you must first divine the exact combination of temperature, gas composition, and pressure - a "sweet spot" that results in the formation of a single crystal. Otherwise, innumerable small diamond crystals will rain down. Hitting on the single-crystal sweet spot is like"

This refers to the process of creating industrial diamonds that has been around for ages...

He admits to staying up almost all night scrutinizing the stones. "I think I can identify it," he says hopefully. "It's too perfect to be natural. Things in nature, they have flaws. The growth structure of this diamond is flawless."

This is what I was saying before about them being too perfect. Good article although the theory has been around for a while
 
dabiggoober said:
Now i understand. I mis-interpreted and stand corrected. Regardless, running a CPU at 400 degrees centigrade because the substrate could easily handle it is different than today's world with silicon no?
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To have it running at 400C with diamond (a good thermal conductor) as a substrate, you would have to be consuming ungodly amounts of power. Think of it this way, today's processors (consuming let's say 50 watts and running at 50C) with a diamond substrate, could consume the same amount of power and run at a significantly lower temp. Or they could consume more power and run at the same temps. However, the trend these days is to conserve energy, so I don't foresee 1000W (pulled this out of my ass) processors being around in the future.
My point - being able to run at high temperatures is contingent on using extremely high amounts of power. General trend in the world is to consume less power. Diamond substrates will first be used in extremely high-power, high-dollar applications for quite a while. If anyone cares to point out anything I'm neglecting to realize, please do. :D
 
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