Pieter3dnow
Supreme [H]ardness
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AMD, where are you?
- Thread starter Dan
- Start date
Erm you do realize you don't need Freesync or Gsync for ZERO tearing (Why the emphasis?)?
You do realize that adaptive sync does not make you screen faster than its faster refresh cycle?
So if you can feed you monitor enough FPS there is NO gain whatsoever from Freesync/gsync since you don't need to slow down the monitors
You do realize that all Freesync/gsync is ? its SLOWING down your refresh rates to your FPS rate so that the finished framebuffer does not have to wait for the next refresh cycle around because it just missed one ( in a synced mode)
Also fast sync beat the crap out of Freesync and Gsync when FPS > Hz because you can actually get reduced inputlag from the extra frames and stil no tearing
Gsync /freesync = For when your computer is to slow.
No amount of fanboyisme or misunderstanding how things work, will change that.
"I can honestly say I would give up gaming if i was forced to play under low FPS with horrible input-lag."
See how subjective and personal choice does not make an ultimate truth like the comment that started this debate branch?
Here is a rule of thumb: if somebody is talking about sync and never brings of frame-buffers. you can be pretty sure they do not understand what sync really implies
P.S: all of the above states Tearing free display to not complicate things to much.
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ccityinstaller
Supreme [H]ardness
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Look, do not insult me. You do not know me, but I hold a BS in EE and am working on a master's degree now that I have taken a break from playing poker professionally. You do not know my "intelligence" level, nor what I know on a technical level. We can get into all kinds of crazy talk, but I follow the general forum trend of making it easy for EVERYONE here to read. I LOVE to learn, and will be the first to admit when I am shown I made a mistake. So please do not insult me, just as I have never insulted you nor your programming skills.
I am aware of how VRR works from both camps..See my example of even a 2080TI not being able to give you a constant 144 (forget about the 165 fps)...Without VRR, you get tearing. stutters etc even with slight dips as low as 10-15fps...In 95% of gaming scenarios (meaning non competitive 400FPS 1280x720 CS:GO gaming etc) this offers a VASTLY improved experience.
It actually got me back into gaming on a regular basis....I know I am an outlier, but even with plenty of GPU power, the regular dips and/or the increased input lag from V-sync would make me motion sick in ~15/20 min. Being able to cap my framerate 3Hz below my top end and keeping my settings in that FS window has cured the issue. I would have taken a million dollar bet that I would have never gamed again before VRR. The crazy thing is that I did not even know I was using VRR the first time I used it and then realized I had been playing a game for over an hour and felt completely fine. Tried to play the same game at home (on a more powerful system) and was sick very quickly. Went back into MC the next week and played with the system I used before and was completely fine...
I was baffled, and on my way out I saw they had a insane deal on an entry level IPS based FS display, so I just grabbed it. When I used it at home, I was back to being fine. I even had a friend randomly turn it off and on without me knowing a few times and it was indeed the difference.
I am not a "fanboy" outside of the fact I am a fan of the VEGA arch itself, since It has made me a ton of money, and it is a very capable arch when cooled and tuned properly. I have run Nvidia and AMD cards from EVERY generation going back to the first Riva Nvidia released aside from Nvidia's 7 series (but had a 6 series card so know the arch). I had every 3dFX card from V1/2/3 and even had an S3 and Intel 740. I am a GPU fan period.
I am unsure what this massive increase in input lag you are referencing? Every major tech outlet (that have actual tech knowledge ala [H], GN, TR etc) have all tested VRR from both camps and I have never heard someone say the input lag is "horrible"...It is much lower, thus offering a better experience, then the added input lag from V-sync...
Unless you think I am referring to playing games @ 35~45 fps as the experience I mentioned, I have no idea what you are talking about and why you potentially made that assumption.
Look, do not insult me. You do not know me, but I hold a BS in EE and am working on a master's degree now that I have taken a break from playing poker professionally. You do not know my "intelligence" level, nor what I know on a technical level.
I don't think think I ever commented anything about your intelligence.
If the fanboyisme/missing how things work was seen ad an insult i will bacjtract on that and apologize
am aware of how VRR works from both camps..See my example of even a 2080TI not being able to give you a constant 144 (forget about the 165 fps)...Without VRR, you get tearing. stutters etc even with slight dips as low as 10-15fps...In 95% of gaming scenarios (meaning non competitive 400FPS 1280x720 CS:GO gaming etc) this offers a VASTLY improved experience.
Agreed but again not the point here
At no point did i compared having Freesyn/GSync vs not having it everything else even.
First all. You stated you needed it for tearing free picture. Which is incorrect.
Can we settle this first? Do you still think that you need Freesync/gsync to avoid tearing ? i hope this is an easy one so we can get this assied tha you misspke or whatever and we can take the next branch.
It actually got me back into gaming on a regular basis....I know I am an outlier, but even with plenty of GPU power, the regular dips and/or the increased input lag from V-sync would make me motion sick in ~15/20 min. Being able to cap my framerate 3Hz below my top end and keeping my settings in that FS window has cured the issue.
As a BS upcomming master in any sicence field i know you would have at least basic undersatandin of palcebo in this case and would understand why i can 't take this as any kind of evidence without some form of ABX testing to take it up.
Also personal issues does NOT render an ultimate decision (more on this later
I am not a "fanboy" outside of the fact I am a fan of the VEGA arch itself, since It has made me a ton of money, and it is a very capable arch when cooled and tuned properly. I have run Nvidia and AMD cards from EVERY generation going back to the first Riva Nvidia released aside from Nvidia's 7 series (but had a 6 series card so know the arch). I had every 3dFX card from V1/2/3 and even had an S3 and Intel 740. I am a GPU fan period.
The lag that comes from vsync itself also comes in freesync and gsync (gsync has some added inputlag)
Vsync had some extra inputlag form frame dropping when the fps is low which is what freesync and gsync does not have
So you have to take into acocunt the FPS sitaution before you can blindly compare input lag
Its not all black and white
To repeat myself
LowFPS is a good ground for freesync and gsync. but again that a patch work for not having enough FPS.
am unsure what this massive increase in input lag you are referencing?
Nvidia whitepapers. Gsync add inputlag because it constanlty has to poll the grafficards
Te inputlag im countin here is from frame is ready to frame is showne. Gsync is higher than anything else
now lets please recap what the debate was really about beofre the goal post got moved to much
The initial argument (not mine) was that if you hadfreesync you would NOT buy a cheaper and faster Nvida cards because of freesync
My counter argument was that it seems ther is plenty ofreason to get a faster and cheaper card because you fix the issue at the root but having faster FPS
are the specific sitaution where onse is better than the other. sure
But in general i belive is better to have enough FPS that patch it up with Freesyn/gsync later
You argument above about the ti2080 seems to really prove my points as you are talking about not having enough FPS soo VFR is nice. Again saying that VFR is a patch on not having enough FPS
Are you still arguing that universel everyone should choose a slower expensive card because they can keep VFR? Because that the starting argument I was disagreeing with and you are disagreeing with me on.
Apologizes for the fast typing im playing and mmo as i type
I've have never had a good experience with Nvidia FastSync? Even with over double the frame rate on a 60hz monitor. It hitches and pauses and looks terrible to me. Plus to get that double the frame rate consistently is virtually not doable with high settings.
Nvidia Adaptive VSync is totally different from my experience, keeping a 60hz monitor being fed 60fps is "I can't believe it is not Butter" smooth moment game play. While not perfect since it may go above 60 fps or slower momentary but for the most part awesome.
FreeSync just works in my experience if you can keep it in the FreeSync range with a very good experience.
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Interesting video, though speculative. Speed up to 1.25x
Pieter3dnow
Supreme [H]ardness
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He forgets about why Vega does not run with GDDR5, or he never knew or did not understand why 
.
Here are the problems for AMD:
All current architectures do not scale well with GDDR5 (clock speed higher then it uses to much power)
Vega uses/needs HBM otherwise the same happens and HBM is too expensive for the consumer market,
Navi supposedly is not a high end part.
That means that were looking at the next architecture before were getting anywhere
https://wccftech.com/amd-arcturus-7nm-next-gen-gpu-revealed/
And that will take a good while.
.Here are the problems for AMD:
All current architectures do not scale well with GDDR5 (clock speed higher then it uses to much power)
Vega uses/needs HBM otherwise the same happens and HBM is too expensive for the consumer market,
Navi supposedly is not a high end part.
That means that were looking at the next architecture before were getting anywhere
https://wccftech.com/amd-arcturus-7nm-next-gen-gpu-revealed/
And that will take a good while.
Dayaks
[H]F Junkie
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Good video. I hope he’s right that there will be a viable alternative.
I’d say DLSS is there to boost nVidia’s RT performance but it’s been very curious that most RT games don’t support both techs.
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Moar AMD Speculation, This time about Navi.
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Navi 20? I've heard of Vega 20.
Also, he seems to think this is going to happen in the next couple of months. I hope he's not betting anything in Vegas.
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The (speculative) announcement will be in the next couple of months in January @ CES, the video clearly states that. Don't expect AMD to launch anything new until Q2 of 2019.
Well if Navi beats out the 1080 Ti but is slower than the 2080 Ti, the pricing is going to be crucial. I feel like they can go as high as $599 and grab market share. I mean would you rather pay $1200 and have 30% faster performance than a 1080 Ti or pay $600 and have 15% better performance than a 1080 Ti? The value would squarely go with AMD at that point.
However HBM2 memory has been a real bottleneck for supply/pricing on Vega cards. This is why the Vega 64 is MORE expensive than the 1080 but is about 10-15% slower. So why would anyone buy it? Result = flop.
Will AMD switch to a more practical GDDR6 memory architecture for Navi to meet consumer demands for supply and to keep pricing reasonable?
The RX590... competes with a GTX 1060. But Nvidia launches a refresh of the 1060 with GDDR5x memory. It should be interesting to see the new numbers.
However HBM2 memory has been a real bottleneck for supply/pricing on Vega cards. This is why the Vega 64 is MORE expensive than the 1080 but is about 10-15% slower. So why would anyone buy it? Result = flop.
Will AMD switch to a more practical GDDR6 memory architecture for Navi to meet consumer demands for supply and to keep pricing reasonable?
The RX590... competes with a GTX 1060. But Nvidia launches a refresh of the 1060 with GDDR5x memory. It should be interesting to see the new numbers.
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I'm pretty sure Navi will not have HBM memory. It is supposed to be a mid range chip design. Hopefully it has GDDR6, but it could be GDDR5x. We should find out early next year.
euskalzabe
[H]ard|Gawd
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I got mad enough at Nvidia's price hikes with Pascal, that I decided to try AMD GPUs for the first time, an RX480. I loved it, but with the mining craze, I couldn't pass up selling it for way, way more than I paid for it (I made north of $150 extra!). Got a cheap 1060 with the earnings but I've been disappointed with it ever since. I ended up buying a Freesync monitor and now I'm waiting to upgrade to Navi. I wasn't expecting to like AMD better, and yet, trying both sides of the mid-range offerings has revealed a very different truth than I was expecting. I hope Navi doesn't come anywhere close to $600, because most people will be looking at refreshing their $250-300 cards (face it: 580 and 590 are not tangible upgrades from the 480... it's really the same card with faster clocks and little else). I for one think it'd be entirely fine if AMD skips the high-end for a while, that's not where most of the market purchases anyway - it just gives them bragging rights, which is important, but not that much. I'd much rather see AMD produce Navi cards at $250 that gives around Vega 64 performance.