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5870 or 4870x2?
- Thread starter IsaacMM
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Eminence_Front
Weaksauce
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Actually the 4870x2 is faster than the 5870 in more benchmarks than not though for the most part performance is extremely similar (Makes sense when you think that they both have exactly 1600 stream processors and a similar underlying architecture). I think it's funny you jump to the conclusion that the 5870 is faster and even criticize others for not "reading a review". Apparently you haven't read many either?
DX11 support on the 5870 is nice however DX11 is not restrictive on what hardware it can run on; you can actually run a 4870x2 with DirectX11 as DirectX11 has built-in downlevel paths and it will use the 10.1 hardware features automatically while things that are unsupported such as tessellation will be disabled automatically. There won't be any situation where you will be "left behind" when DX11 games become more popular.
Eyefinity would be a legitimate reason to go for a 5870, you'll have to decide how important that feature is to you. The fact that I could get TWO 4870x2's for the price of a single 5870 is what made the choice easy for me.
sweetreddyd
Limp Gawd
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4870x2 has 512m framebuffer per GPU, it is slower in minimum framerate in about every test I've seen run, the guy was not offbase at all saying it's consistently slower. A pair of well overclocked 4890s with 1 gig will occasionally beat a 5870 in terms of minimum framerate, a 4870x2 may do this in occasional tests at lower resolutions, but it is hamstrung by a 512 meg framebuffer for each gpu and will never consistently outperform a 5870, especially when the 5870 is overclocked.
meh...
considering overclock potential, the 5870 will close that performance gap because the 4870x2 is not as overclockable.
So then we have: Single GPU, more overclockable, Dx11, lower power consumption, eyefinity...
I'd even take a 5850 over the 4870x2 to be honest, but that's because I'm an overclocker and ALL of the above factors are important to me.
Edit: And I assumed we were referring to a 2GB 4870x2. I didn't even know a 1GB version existed... I've only seen a 1GB 4850x2, and it wasn't nearly as good as the 2GB.
Edit 2: I'm also ignoring price here... but I'd pay MORE for the above-mentioned features.
considering overclock potential, the 5870 will close that performance gap because the 4870x2 is not as overclockable.
So then we have: Single GPU, more overclockable, Dx11, lower power consumption, eyefinity...
I'd even take a 5850 over the 4870x2 to be honest, but that's because I'm an overclocker and ALL of the above factors are important to me.
Edit: And I assumed we were referring to a 2GB 4870x2. I didn't even know a 1GB version existed... I've only seen a 1GB 4850x2, and it wasn't nearly as good as the 2GB.
Edit 2: I'm also ignoring price here... but I'd pay MORE for the above-mentioned features.
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Each 4870x2 has 2GB, 1GB per GPU. Pretty sure they never made a model with only 1GB.
"lower minimums" are more an artifact of how crossfire works than anything else. Rather, the framerate very rarely dips low but occasionally there might be a slight stutter for a split second which will end up being recorded as the low minimum. That doesn't mean you actually had low minimums, it just means that at some point your game stuttered for a second.
I regularly see 4870x2's against 5870's at lanparties and the gameplay experience is just as good on both and certainly backs up the numbers.
Back to talking about the fictional 1GB 4870x2 again?
sweetreddyd
Limp Gawd
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Oh yeah the x2 did have 2gb vs the 512 per gpu didn't it.
And why would you quote my post, then double quote lower minimum framerates. It's not like you can deny thats pretty much the biggest failing of the whole last gen double GPU card vs current gen single gpu card.
If the OP is at all concerned with quality of gaming, he'll get the latest gen, with the best minimum framerates available.
My best friend had 4890 crossfire, saw my 5870 hitting nearly the same framerates, and traded out for it two weeks afterward. And thats two watercooled 4890s.
Just because you have a personal emotional investment in hardware does not make it better.
I will trade my triple 5870s when something more compelling comes out. Not spend my time posting on the internet trying to convince people to buy last generations dual GPU card because it wins the occasional low res test.
And why would you quote my post, then double quote lower minimum framerates. It's not like you can deny thats pretty much the biggest failing of the whole last gen double GPU card vs current gen single gpu card.
If the OP is at all concerned with quality of gaming, he'll get the latest gen, with the best minimum framerates available.
My best friend had 4890 crossfire, saw my 5870 hitting nearly the same framerates, and traded out for it two weeks afterward. And thats two watercooled 4890s.
Just because you have a personal emotional investment in hardware does not make it better.
I will trade my triple 5870s when something more compelling comes out. Not spend my time posting on the internet trying to convince people to buy last generations dual GPU card because it wins the occasional low res test.
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Consider it denied. It only takes one stutter during an entire benchmark run to produce a low minimum framerate value. That does not mean that the person has lower minimum frames over the course of the benchmark. This is best illustrated with graphs; I wish hardocp had used a 4870x2 in their 5870 reviews instead of a 4890 as their graphs are quite good at showing realworld gameplay (where the "low minimums" you speak of are accuratly represented as an anomaly and little more).
Sounds like both setups were performing exactly how they should. A 5870 should be right behind dual 4890s. What point where you trying to make exactly?
Are you sure it's me with the emotional investment? You are the one that seems to be getting awfully snippy and defensive.
We did clarify that you had no clue what you were talking about with the whole 512m per gpu BS right? Because that little quip about "low res tests" seems to be a remnant of that fallacy. The 4870x2 is no less competitive compared to the 5870 at high resolutions than it is at low resolutions. They have the same amount of ram per GPU.
And to be clear I do think there are some damn amazing deals to be had on used hardware right now especially given how things stack up performance wise but I have not made any attempts to convince anyone of anything. I know plenty of people with Eyefinity who love it. I personally love having amazing performance for a relatively tiny amount of money.
sweetreddyd
Limp Gawd
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No offense here, but you are getting really defensive over something that you can't really disprove. You are getting emotional over your investment in 4870x2s, you've made many posts regarding how much you love them, and how great you think they are compared to 5870s. The fact you're upset with me over calling them a less than ideal solution compared to a 5870, is a pretty good example of that also.
All I had to do was google 4870x2 VS 5870 and right off the bat I saw several reviews, all showing a lower minimum framerate on the 4870x2, along with it only winning tests at 1650 res or 1920 with no AA. If you run a 30" monitor like I do, the disparity is even more severe.
Anyone else can do this too. This is akin to when people were arguing about the 9800gx2 VS the gtx 260 / 280.
Yes, in certain, select situations the GX2 can be faster, however, there are limitations to it's hardware (being forced into AFR, which does not scale well in all situations, and not at all in others is one of them) that cause it to be a less than ideal solution compared to a single, faster card of the next generation, especially when said next gen card can be paired with a second, just as easily.
The fact, and it isn't an opinion, it's a fact, an undeniable, completely proven fact, that in some games, a 4870x2 will perform like a lone 4870, is reason enough for me to never reccomend anyone buy one rather than a 5870.
All I had to do was google 4870x2 VS 5870 and right off the bat I saw several reviews, all showing a lower minimum framerate on the 4870x2, along with it only winning tests at 1650 res or 1920 with no AA. If you run a 30" monitor like I do, the disparity is even more severe.
Anyone else can do this too. This is akin to when people were arguing about the 9800gx2 VS the gtx 260 / 280.
Yes, in certain, select situations the GX2 can be faster, however, there are limitations to it's hardware (being forced into AFR, which does not scale well in all situations, and not at all in others is one of them) that cause it to be a less than ideal solution compared to a single, faster card of the next generation, especially when said next gen card can be paired with a second, just as easily.
The fact, and it isn't an opinion, it's a fact, an undeniable, completely proven fact, that in some games, a 4870x2 will perform like a lone 4870, is reason enough for me to never reccomend anyone buy one rather than a 5870.
I own a 4870x2 and will probably swap to a 5870 for the reasons in this post.
I'm jumping to conclusions? Because I never said it was faster. The fact that a SINGLE GPU solution can keep up with a DUAL solution in most situations is impressive. And its achieved in a package that uses less power and produces less heat. Oh, and you don't have to worry about how well a game is designed to scale with a CFX setup to achieve these frame-rates.
That's a pretty big performance increase to me.
The whole point of upgrading is to not get "left behind".
Where the hell are you buying your hardware? The average price I could fine for a 4870x2 is $450, and that's if you can even find them. Your statement is preposterous considering the cheapest I've seen 5870s going for is $409.
I think its funny you knock me for my conclusion because it doesn't fit your rationale.
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5870 of course, single gpu, cooler, eyefinity, and dx11 support. Oh and its also faster.
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This is the second time you've made this accusation. Everything I've said about the 4870x2 has been accurate; if you believe otherwise you are more than welcome to post otherwise but no one is interested in your psychological evaluations. The OP of this thread asked a simple question, which one performs better, and my posts have been aimed at that question. I have made no attempts to cover up the legitimate shortcomings of the cards such as heat and power consumption. But other things such as the minimum frame-rate argument is largely BS when taken in the proper context.
Ok, and aside from the fact that you disagree with me, how is this different than 90% of people here who post about hardware they own?
Pointing out bits of your post which I felt to be inaccurate does not mean I am upset. This is a message board.
I've already addressed the minimum frame-rate issues. One brief instance of a low minimum due to a brief hiccup does not represent persistent low minimum frame-rates during gameplay anymore than the max fps from one brief spike would.
lol
I've actually yet to play a game that didn't support at least 2-way crossfire. Feel free to list a few though. I mean you give the impression there are so many that don't work well with crossfire, so it shouldn't be a problem to list a few right?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, google search is your friend.
And in case you are too lazy for that. GET A 5870!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
friend'scatdied
[H]ard|Gawd
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LOL micro-stuttering is a non-issue now? That's news to me.
It is true that the 4870x2 generally performs at least as well as a 5870. I also believe the 4870x2 is a much better value than the 5870 from a pure performance perspective. The 5850 is as well. Hell, the 5970 is a better value than the 5870 as well.
As for 4870x2 prices: FS/T.
It is true that the 4870x2 generally performs at least as well as a 5870. I also believe the 4870x2 is a much better value than the 5870 from a pure performance perspective. The 5850 is as well. Hell, the 5970 is a better value than the 5870 as well.
As for 4870x2 prices: FS/T.
I'd vote for the 5870, or get a 5850 and OC it.
http://firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_radeon_hd_5850_performance_preview/page19.asp
Of course you can OC a 5870 too. Mine does 1030|1300.
http://firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_radeon_hd_5850_performance_preview/page19.asp
Of course you can OC a 5870 too. Mine does 1030|1300.
sweetreddyd
Limp Gawd
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Yeah, thats what I thought guy. Get as mad as you want about it, 4870x2 is slower and just about everyone knows it. there are quite a few games out there that don't care at all about crossifre or sli, it's a well known limitation of both technologies, denying that it exists? Just ignorant. I don't need to point out examples (like gta IV, Rfg, anything else a crossfire profile has been overlooked or useless for) because they are commonly recognized. In some situations (like newly released games) it's simply a given that multi-gpu scaling will be less than optimal or non-existant.
Your opinion, is lose, sorry, universally laughed at. 4870x2 is a hell of a card, but not with the 5870/5850 floating around at the current price point, and if you'd pick a reply to harp on aside from mine, you'd probobly realize that and slink off.
ellover009
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A 4870x2 performs similar to a 5870, it can edge it out on some occasions when you crank up the resolution but the 5870 does a little better overall due to being a single gpu card it can manage a lot better with games that don't scale with multiple gpu (older games) and it's raw power allow it to do better in the low end of fps.
Reason a 5870 might be better are.
Single gpu can handle some games better, handling multi gpu does not always happen smoothly.
DX11
Eyefinity (3 monitors).
Power consumption for the power you are getting, can O/C and just leave the 4870x2 behind
More Thermal efficient.
Pros of 4870x2
ebay or used around $200 vs $400+ and similar performance.
Sure you can go dual 4870x2 vs 5870 but it's gonna suck a lotta power so not all psu will handle the loads, and crossfire has not always been best yields on 4870x2 dual, also the extra heat will turn your pc into an easy bake oven.
Personally I would love a 5870 but prices on those have gone up lately, my 8800gtx is aging gracefully so I will wait for Fermi and it will be a win win regardless who I go with next, It will hopefully force prices down on the 5xxx series or I will go fermi if it does well. I would love to 4870x2 for the price but buying used you never know what you are getting, and those suckers can be a little sporadic sometimes, I would prefer to go single core gpu for performance on games and compatibility. Of course if I see a non priced jacked 5970 or if I got one cheap enough I would be on it like white on rice.
Reason a 5870 might be better are.
Single gpu can handle some games better, handling multi gpu does not always happen smoothly.
DX11
Eyefinity (3 monitors).
Power consumption for the power you are getting, can O/C and just leave the 4870x2 behind
More Thermal efficient.
Pros of 4870x2
ebay or used around $200 vs $400+ and similar performance.
Sure you can go dual 4870x2 vs 5870 but it's gonna suck a lotta power so not all psu will handle the loads, and crossfire has not always been best yields on 4870x2 dual, also the extra heat will turn your pc into an easy bake oven.
Personally I would love a 5870 but prices on those have gone up lately, my 8800gtx is aging gracefully so I will wait for Fermi and it will be a win win regardless who I go with next, It will hopefully force prices down on the 5xxx series or I will go fermi if it does well. I would love to 4870x2 for the price but buying used you never know what you are getting, and those suckers can be a little sporadic sometimes, I would prefer to go single core gpu for performance on games and compatibility. Of course if I see a non priced jacked 5970 or if I got one cheap enough I would be on it like white on rice.
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The 4870X2 is a quick ass card no doubt in every way but one its a older gen card that uses more power and produces more heat that whats currently out .... if you where going for pure speed and 5870 will beat a 4870x2 once overclocked but by then you kill the whole going green act and might as well keep your 4870x2 