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3/8" ID system pump?

C

cornelious0_0

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Apr 6, 2003
Messages
12,783
Just wondering, I'm looking at putting together a 3/8" ID loop for my up and coming system (see sig). I'm leaning more towards Swiftech for the cpu/gpu/chipset blocks, but I need some advise on one thing.

What GPH should I be looking at in a pump? My system isn't going to be overly large, consisting of the three blocks, a single BIX 120mm rad and a simple res. I would like something that is 3/8" native to avoid ugly adapters.

DD has a 3/8" native 12v pump, and it's rated at about 130GPH. Is this going to be enough do you think? I'd much rather run a pair of smaller 130GPH 12v pumps (being that they're only about 2" square) in series then have one larger pump...but I wanted to know if I'm way off base with this, or even if the single 130GPH pump would be sufficient for a fairly simple 2 or 3 block loop with a 1x120mm radiator.
 
It's really head pressure that you want to look at in a pump, but unfortunately I don't know enough about it to reccomend anything.
 
you can use a D5 pump, just heat the tubing up and mash it on. dont need clamps. you temps are going to suffer cooling all that with only 1x120 rad
 
Dark_fire said:
you can use a D5 pump, just heat the tubing up and mash it on. dont need clamps. you temps are going to suffer cooling all that with only 1x120 rad
Click to expand...

Well, I could very easily go with a dual 120mm BIX...and then use the D5 as you mentioned I suppose. Technically the D5 doesn't offer THAT much more flow and maximum head then the Danger Den CSP-MAG 12v...I actually think that the MAG is slightly superior...but one way or another, I think it'll be one of those two pumps and a 2x120mm BIX.

Sorry, was reading the graphs wrong...the D5 is by far the better pump...so I think I'll just go with that and either use adapters or just heat up the tubing and "cram" it onto the fittings...doesn't seem like i could go wrong wiht the D5 overall.
 
It would be a stretch (pun intended) to get 3/8" tubing over the bumps on the D5's connectors, but sticking the tubing end in boiling water (and picking nice, flexible tubing) should make it possible. If you just wanted a standard 3/8" pump, your main options are the CSP-Mag (rebranded by D-Tek or DD) and DDC. Both are plenty powerful enough for the loop you're planning, but the DDC (the link I gave is for the updated, more powerful DDC-R2) has more head, so it would be able to give more flow in a more restrictive loop (with 3 blocks and to a lesser extent, 3/8"id tubing, your loop might be a little restrictive, but the DDC-R2 would perform better than the Mag).

As Dark_fire suggested, a hot cpu and gpu would probably make it worth the upgrade to at least a 2x120mm radiator (BIP2 would work fine).
 
DangerDen now sells the Laing DDC Plus (revision 2). This is basically a more powerful DDC which produces ever so slightly more noise and heat. The old DDC was 10W and the new one which DangerDen now sells is 18W. Actually I saw an auction on eBay the otherday for a Swiftech MCP350 (rebranded DDC) and the printing on the side looked like it said 18W so Swiftech might have ninja updated their DDC to the newer version as well.

This pump is very small, but still very capable. Also running two pumps in series does not up the "free flow" GPH that you are looking at. Two pumps in series effectively increases the head pressure while two pumps in parallel increases the free flow. When running a loop in series especially as the loop gets longer (three blocks or more) head pressure probably is more important than the pumps rated free flow.

Overall I think the DDC should suit your needs very well.
 
that DDC-RC2 looks DAMN fine........still less than 30 db noise, native 3/8", small, plenty of head and now it offers flow that isn't too far off from the high and mighty D5. very nice indeed.

looks like swifty might have a "new" MCP600 coming soon.

something to consider when selecting your CPU block: a number of people have been pointing out how the increased flow restriction imposed by the storm will impede cooling performance of the GPU and other components as compared to the apogee block. in so far as this statement goes, it's true: since the storm is more restrictive, it will offer lower coolant flow rates to other blocks in the system than you could expect otherwise.

the question is, how much will it affect performance? a lot? a little? do you reallly have to be extra carefull to consider this when you're designing your water loop? as it happens, i would say that the answer is no you don't. no it isn't a big deal.

http://www.swiftnets.com/products/H20-220-APEX.asp, in the table comparing the old apex kit with the storm block and the new apex with the apogee, they point out that total system flow, all other things being equal, is 1.07 GPM with the storm compared to 2.07 GPM with the apogee. that's almost double the flow, and i don't deny that is worrisom on the face of it.

however, if we now take those two flow values and plug them into the performance curve for the MCW60, http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcw60.asp# it's pretty clear that the difference is temps resulting from that change in flow rate is absolutely miniscule. by virture of the free flowing and flow agnostic tendencies of the diamond pin design, the GPU block is going to cool almost as well with whatever flow rate you happen to give it.

this is something that i am almost willing to characterize as a strong point of the apogee base plate, even if i'm not at all fond of the CPU block.

other blocks will surely respond to changing flow in different ways, however it seems to me that GPU block designs are still pretty simple at this point, without terribly fancy flow optimization.
 
Wow, thx for that Daishi...I was looking at the Apogee to start with...do you have a link to that pump you were talking about...the DDC-RC2...maybe I just missed it before.

EDIT: Sorry...saw the link a couple posts up. :p

Man...that DDC is looking really nice...with that pump, and the move to a 2x120mm rad I think I'd be good to go...anyone think different?

What are the aparent advantages/disadvantages to the Black Ice Pro and Black Ice Extreme...I have only had experience with the Extreme line myself.
 
Pros are designed for lower cfm, quieter fans while Extremes are thicker, so they can cool slightly better, but need louder, higher cfm fans.
 
ikellensbro said:
Pros are designed for lower cfm, quieter fans while Extremes are thicker, so they can cool slightly better, but need louder, higher cfm fans.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, good thing last time I did any h2O I had my 120x38mm Delta that did 220cfm at 12v eh? :p

Not that I ever ran it that loud...but I'll go with the BIP then, thx m8. :cool:
 
Here's a couple shots of the 18w version to help you decide............. You know where my vote is......:)



The acrylic top is one I picked up in my travels and greatly expands the versatility of this pump, with the stock top next to it. Note the coin for perspective. I'll be modding the new top further by opening up the internal I/O channels, which appear a bit constricted to me.
 
Toonage said:
I'll be modding the new top further by opening up the internal I/O channels, which appear a bit constricted to me.
Click to expand...
I have those very same two parts sitting before me right now and was also considering how to open up the outlet channel (I'm going to use the center/top as the inlet).
It appears to be very close to the mounting hole however...how much larger do you think you can go before breaking into that tapped hole?
 
Looking straight into the (left) outlet port, I'll be reaming it more into a ' D ' shape as there is no room at all to go to the left where that mounting screw is. The intake side will have the flat at the bottom, unless I do the top intake as you are. We'll see where the Dremel takes me........:) Cornelious, I'd give some serious consideration to this setup. IMO the configuration options available outweigh the higher performance of the D5.
 
Thx for the pic Toonage, I think the DDC-R2 is what I'll be going with.

I can't wait to get this all setup. :cool:
 
I'd suggest not stretching 3/8" tubing to fit over a 1/2" barb. While it may work for a long while, you put undue stress on the walls of the tubing. This can lead to cracks where the tubing mates with the pump inlet/outplet. The last thing you want is to wake up 6 months later to find your system fried because your tubing cracked open and leaked all over.

Oh, and always use clamps, just to be safe, especially if you move your system around a lot.
 
DarkenReaper57 said:
I'd suggest not stretching 3/8" tubing to fit over a 1/2" barb. While it may work for a long while, you put undue stress on the walls of the tubing. This can lead to cracks where the tubing mates with the pump inlet/outplet. The last thing you want is to wake up 6 months later to find your system fried because your tubing cracked open and leaked all over.

Oh, and always use clamps, just to be safe, especially if you move your system around a lot.
Click to expand...

The DDC has 3/8" barbs
 
Erasmus354 said:
The DDC has 3/8" barbs
Click to expand...

Which is why I'm almost positive that'll be the pump for me. It's nice to have things cleared up...this leaves me the ability/time to plan/route the tubing and get thing good to go earlier on.
 
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