0 maintenance Water Cooling?

[Fryguy8]

Are there any items available now that make watercooling systems have either no maintenance or very easy maintenance? I currently have a basic watercooling system consisting of a dangerden2 block, cube radiator, and a magdrive pump, and I've run into some serious maintenance issues doing both open and closed systems.

Originally, the system was a completely closed system with a fill tube (no resevoir at all). While the system didn't leak or anything, and performed quite well. Water would disappear from the system (there were NOT any leaks, the water simply disappeared), and I'd be adding water to the system almost on a daily basis. after getting sick of this for a few months, I decided to go open and leave the pump submerged in a fishtank of water. This presented it's own problems. The fishtank itself wasn't quite airtight, so all sorts of crap got into the water over time, the water turned some funky ass colors, left huge chunky deposits on the pump, and was overall quite nasty. After refilling the system a few times, I stopped bothering with additives (I was using waterwetter + some anti-bacterial stuff), and the problems only got worse.

Obviously going with a closed system with an inline resevoir (one that like plugs onto the end of the pump like a tank-o-matic or something) is the optimal solution, but in terms of water loss, how often am I going to have to refill such a system? At this point I'm thinking of not even bothering since I got a terrible OC on my system anyway due to me being too lazy to unlock my palomino, but since a 939 setup should be able to give a much better OC, I'm rather curious to keep the watercooling system going.

 

[V0ltage]

well if you just want to go the REALLY easy route, just get a koolance. Only other option is a nice dangerden system, but you do have to maintain them, and why not just get a decent res, then you wont have to fill it all the time.

 

[HeThatKnows]

Small amounts of water can evaporate right through tubing, nothing you can do about that.

I second the res suggestion. Just buy or make one that has a cap on it to keep the funky stuff out.

 

[NascarFool]

Small amounts of water can evaporate right through tubing, nothing you can do about that.

What ? That is news to me. I say that statement is incorrect. If you have to add water, then there is a leak somewhere in the system. It may be a small enough leak that is undetected. Put in some kind of ultra violet dye for leak checking. A good black light will aid in finding the leak. I have not added any water to my Koolance system in the past two years.

 

[Fryguy8]

I did dye my system and use towels to check. there were no leaks, the water simply disappeared.

I guess when I put together my new setup (with my new 939 setup soon upcoming), I'll just get a nice resevoir, and I can just top it off once a week or whatever, no biggie.

And for the person who doubts water evaporation through tubing, it depends on the type of tubing you use. I forget which tubing is good and which is bad, but I remember reading a lot of junk about watercooling a while back (when I was setting mine up), and one type of tubing was slightly porous and allowed a bit of evaporation.

 

[HeThatKnows]

Silicone tubing will let more water evaporate out that vinyl tubing will, thin wall tube more than thicker wall, soft more than harder.

Flexible plastics are kinda like jello -- a matrix of stiff polymers and a liquid plasticizer. Water is such a tiny molecule and such a good solvent that it can permeate through darn near anything. It's just a question of the rate.

 

[Turbokeu]

Silicone tubing will let more water evaporate out that vinyl tubing will, thin wall tube more than thicker wall, soft more than harder.

Flexible plastics are kinda like jello -- a matrix of stiff polymers and a liquid plasticizer. Water is such a tiny molecule and such a good solvent that it can permeate through darn near anything. It's just a question of the rate.

That's correct!

BTW, I had to top half a cup of coolant in my airtrap every few months with silicone tubing...

CD

 

[Visable-assassin]

zero maintenance water cooling...easy
get a decent setup to begin with then use fluidFX instead of water....now your done for the next 6-7 years when you gotta change the fluid out. nothing will grow in it. It shouldnt evaporate....and the best part is...it works just as good and in some cases better than water...oh yeah and if it leaks no problem...it doesnt conduct electricity

 

[RebornPhoenix]

Actually, it is 15-20% less effective at conducting/storing heat than water (well thats what the manufacturers say). You have to give up a few degrees but I feel that is worth it for the inertia of the fluid.

 

[mpatc]

Since we have got onto the topic of water cooling fluids I have a newbie question.

I am setting up my first water cooling rig (Koolance EXOS AL - I know, not the best but it was free). I have access to an unlimited supply of very pure DI water and have considered using it instead of Distilled Water. Has anyone used DI water in a water cooling setup? From a few reviews I have read on fluidFX, it appears that the DI water will have a lower conductivity for electricity. Any thoughts besides flames on the Koolance?

Thanks,

Mpatc

 

[RebornPhoenix]

Deionised water is of a higher purity than distilled water and therefore less conductive, but as water rises by 1C deionised water conductivity raises by 6% where mains water rises by 2%. The purity is very dependant on how it is being deionised. Small scale lab deionisers are more than good enough for a water cooling system and you should be able to run the water without any kind of additive if it is transfered very quickly without contamination. The water cooling system would have to be fairly sterile though. I think it would be safest to add antifungal/anticorrosive additives anyway. If you don't have a ready supply there really isn't much of an advantage in using deionised water over distilled, but definately do it if you can.

 

[kronchev]

zero maintenance water cooling...easy
get a decent setup to begin with then use fluidFX instead of water....now your done for the next 6-7 years when you gotta change the fluid out. nothing will grow in it. It shouldnt evaporate....and the best part is...it works just as good and in some cases better than water...oh yeah and if it leaks no problem...it doesnt conduct electricity

fluidXP is water.

 

[kronchev]

Deionised water is of a higher purity than distilled water and therefore less conductive, but as water rises by 1C deionised water conductivity raises by 6% where mains water rises by 2%. The purity is very dependant on how it is being deionised. Small scale lab deionisers are more than good enough for a water cooling system and you should be able to run the water without any kind of additive if it is transfered very quickly without contamination. The water cooling system would have to be fairly sterile though. I think it would be safest to add antifungal/anticorrosive additives anyway. If you don't have a ready supply there really isn't much of an advantage in using deionised water over distilled, but definately do it if you can.

DeI water also doesnt stay that way for long

 

[RebornPhoenix]

fluidXP is water.

As far as I can tell form the manufacturers website, FluidXP+ does not contain any water whatsoever. Infact, it's interesting stuff, I'll grab a quote in a few mins.

 

[kronchev]

As far as I can tell form the manufacturers website, FluidXP+ does not contain any water whatsoever. Infact, it's interesting stuff, I'll grab a quote in a few mins.

OH MY GOD

Sorry i'm not pissed at you im pissed at THEM.

Dihydrogen Oxide = H2O = water

they pull this bullshit EVERYWHERE and I really dont like them for that fact. then theres the fact that they perform worse than deI water yet is more conductive, they make probabily 500% profit on the stuff if not more, and...argh.

ALL IT IS, IS WATER AND A FEW CHEMICALS

if someone wanted to they could get a gallon of each chemical and many gallons of water and sell L's of the stuff for $5, and STILL MAKE A PROFIT

 

[RebornPhoenix]

I found the webpage for it: http://www.fluidxp.com/

I've grabbed a few quotes:

Q: How does Fluid XP’s removal of heat compare with other fluids?

A: The conduction coefficient of Fluid XP is 3.7 Btu-in/hr-ft2-Deg. F while water conduction coefficient is 4.2 Btu-in/hr-ft2-Deg. F. It is roughly 89% as effective as water. This comes out to a 2-3º difference in performance. Water is used as a reference point for all coolants. The benefits of Fluid XP over plain water are such that while water will damage your system if spilled on it Fluid XP will have no detrimental effects on your system.

Obviously I got that a little wrong, but I was right its not as good at heat conduction as water.

Q: What is in the Fluid XP?

A: Fluid XP is a patent pending mixture of Propylene glycol, De-ionized water, Glycerin, Keltrol, Benzotriazole and some other proprietary ingredients that are all considered to be edible products by the EPA.

Wrong again, ah well. With the level of electrical conductance there can be very little water in there.

 

[kronchev]

I found the webpage for it: http://www.fluidxp.com/

I've grabbed a few quotes:



Obviously I got that a little wrong, but I was right its not as good at heat conduction as water.



Wrong again, ah well. With the level of electrical conductance there can be very little water in there.

wrong a third time deionized water is completly non conductive. water only becomes conductive when you add stuff into it. also, the boiling point lowers when you add volatile substances and raises when you add non-volatile, so it is questionable how maintainece (sp) free it is. again, its MOSTLY water with a few splashes of extra chemicals. it sure as hell isnt worth $25 a bottle or whatever price they want (from the manufacturer they want $50 a bottle or something, correct?)


and as for the non conductive nature of it, ive yet to see a demonstration where someone dumps a bottle of it on a running motherboard.

 

[zer0signal667]

I found the webpage for it: http://www.fluidxp.com/

I've grabbed a few quotes:



Obviously I got that a little wrong, but I was right its not as good at heat conduction as water.



Wrong again, ah well. With the level of electrical conductance there can be very little water in there.

Just a note here, not trying to harrass you about it, but thermal conductivity is only one of several material properties that makes a fluid efficient in convective heat transfer. If the water were standing still, then thermal conductivity would be more important, but even with water seemingly standing still, convection currents will always form. So you see, thermal conductivity alone is not nearly enough to rate this fluid's efficiency. I'm guessing it's increased viscosity and possible lowered specific heat are going to put that 89% a bit lower.
This just goes to show you, don't believe everything you read, and be aware of marketing ploys.

 

[kronchev]

Just a note here, not trying to harrass you about it, but thermal conductivity is only one of several material properties that makes a fluid efficient in convective heat transfer. If the water were standing still, then thermal conductivity would be more important, but even with water seemingly standing still, convection currents will always form. So you see, thermal conductivity alone is not nearly enough to rate this fluid's efficiency. I'm guessing it's increased viscosity and possible lowered specific heat are going to put that 89% a bit lower.
This just goes to show you, don't believe everything you read, and be aware of marketing ploys.

exactly

one of the reasons water is used is because it has a large specific heat, what this means is it takes a lot of energy to raise its temp by 1 degree. that may sound bad but that means that it can absorb a lot more energy

 

[Edwood]

FluidXP is pretty interesting idea. But, yes. I agree. I want to see a computer running submerged in a bucket of the stuff for a couple weeks nonstop.

How long does deionized water ermain non conductive? Probably not long as contaminants build up from the radiator and water blocks, right?

-Ed

 

[kronchev]

FluidXP is pretty interesting idea. But, yes. I agree. I want to see a computer running submerged in a bucket of the stuff for a couple weeks nonstop.

How long does deionized water ermain non conductive? Probably not long as contaminants build up from the radiator and water blocks, right?

-Ed

as soon as its exposed to air it absorbs CO2 very quickly. quick enough that its hard to measure the conductivity in a typical lab setting.

 

[RebornPhoenix]

wrong a third time deionized water is completly non conductive.

The chance of actually getting fully deionised water is very low. Research laboratories can produce it but they require a system called a polishing mixed bed. There is a very good article on the subject here: http://www.purite.co.uk/technical/CHARACTERISTICS_OF_DEIONISED_WATER.pdf

Note that even ultra-pure water is conductive (without any contamination whatsoever) to a very small degree, but that it increases as temperature rises. The possibility of getting water above a pure rating is minimal and at that level plus the contaminants in a water cooling system plus the temperature, I think it still cause shorts. I know the lab I use in college has an extremely expensive water purifier and it is only a weak base system (lowest grade of purification). Saying that, its all better than distilled.

In my opinion FluidXP+ would be well worth a go IF it was a 5th of the price. The interesting thing about it is that they say it will remain non-conductive for its lifespan, not just when you first use it.

 

[killernoodle]

Making a system that requires no cleaning and no topping off only takes a 50:50 mix of glycol and water. Although the water conductivity will be less than regular water, it will kill anything in it and will protect the system from corrosion. I have been using it in my waterblocks for 1.5 years now and see no evidence of oxidation or corrosion. Really, you have to start off with a new pump, new tubes, new radiator, ect, to keep out all the nasties from the beginning, and fill it without getting any contaminants in the system. There is one catch though: you will have to pump distilled water through the radiator and through a filter for a few days because the radiator has nasty stuff in it from the start. Then, you need to make sure you have 1/8" wall tygon (it doesnt seem to evaporate for me) and rig it all up watertight. I havent topped mine up for 6 month periods before.