Microsoft Urges Court To Block Warrant For Emails Held Abroad

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I wonder how this is going to turn out. Any bets on which way this is going to go?

Microsoft Corp asked a federal appeals court on Wednesday to block the U.S. government from forcing the company to hand over a customer's emails stored on an Irish server, warning that the precedent would create a "global free-for-all" that eviscerates personal privacy.
 
So many issues at hand here.

You have to ask yourself if the US Gov't has given any thought to what they might be getting into.

Let's assume for a moment the Federal Appeals Court rejects MS motions and allows the US access to MS servers is Ireland. A win for the US right?
Next week...mother Russia comes knocking (or China or any other country for that matter). What would the US do then? Try to enforce a double standard? Talk tough words about the abuse of power?

It ends up poorly for the US if they win.

My personal feeling on the bigger picture is that they shouldn't have access to the emails if they are kept on physical servers in another country period.

The US needs to stop these efforts of bullying their way around lately. It won't end well for anyone.
 
sure US could do that MS say ok get it your self
and the Irish gov't could tell them to fuck off
 
Seems to me the US would have to request a warrant from Ireland...
 
alxlwson said:
Seems to me the US would have to request a warrant from Ireland...
Click to expand...

That'd be logical. The US stance is that because Microsoft is a US company then a subpoena/warrant should allow them access to any property owned by said company.

So the real question - does a US warrant to a US company allow them to physically search a foreign-based office?

What wouldn happen if US companies created subsidiaries in other nations for those servers? For example, a Microsoft-Ireland would have to be served a warrant from Ireland.
 
The Gonz said:
So many issues at hand here.

You have to ask yourself if the US Gov't has given any thought to what they might be getting into.

Let's assume for a moment the Federal Appeals Court rejects MS motions and allows the US access to MS servers is Ireland. A win for the US right?
Next week...mother Russia comes knocking (or China or any other country for that matter). What would the US do then? Try to enforce a double standard? Talk tough words about the abuse of power?

It ends up poorly for the US if they win.

My personal feeling on the bigger picture is that they shouldn't have access to the emails if they are kept on physical servers in another country period.

The US needs to stop these efforts of bullying their way around lately. It won't end well for anyone.
Click to expand...

I think a key issue is the citizenship of the owner of the email account. If this person is a US Citizen then this issue has a different note then if the person is a foreign national and different laws come into play.
 
lcpiper said:
I think a key issue is the citizenship of the owner of the email account. If this person is a US Citizen then this issue has a different note then if the person is a foreign national and different laws come into play.
Click to expand...

Now apply that thought to a physical mail locked up in a safe deposit box in another country. How would that work?
 
Actually, the more I read about this case the more I remember from previous articles.

If I remember correctly, the owner and subject of investigation is a US Citizen who "lied" about his home address when he created his email account so that his data would be stored abroad in Ireland. Regardless, you have a US Citizen, who is in the US, and not an Irish Resident or Citizen, and is currently charged with crimes, MS is resisting the court order, a warrant, on the basis of where the data is stored.

I think MS is simply trying to create legal precedent to avoid having to respond to all the US Government requests for information as a money saving measure. Could be significant savings in being abale to avoid responding and delivering on all these data requests simply by transfering data to their servers located outside the US.

If I am right then it's obvious why all these other providers would jump onboard. I think MS is going to lose this one. I don't think Ireland even feels a need to get involved, they aren't asking for anything they would lay claim to as theirs and I doubt they feel the least bit violated.

That's how it looks to me anyway.
 
Doubt that MS would lose it since the standard is to think like the-one1 asked.

The nationality of the person doesn't matter as much as were it is stored indeed.
 
Spidey329 said:
That'd be logical. The US stance is that because Microsoft is a US company then a subpoena/warrant should allow them access to any property owned by said company.

So the real question - does a US warrant to a US company allow them to physically search a foreign-based office?

What wouldn happen if US companies created subsidiaries in other nations for those servers? For example, a Microsoft-Ireland would have to be served a warrant from Ireland.
Click to expand...

well you can guess thats whats going to happen if the judge doesnt block this
 
If they can prove flight to avoid persecution there is already a pressadent for it with the swiss banks opening up access during 9-11 to the US government looking for terrorists by following the money back to the banks... which in some cases were not even terrorists just some agents wanting to seize old accounts, they found out about when the world trade building was rubble since some of the intact filling cabinets recovered from the wreckage had what where defaunt companies assets. So likely this is either another fishing expadistion or someone thinking it is good idea to be able to simply seize assets under the guise of legality.

Personally if they are looking at someone's account that has a US street address then they should get a warrent from the country following that countries laws. It is what they did with switerland... if it is right or wrong is another issue, that needs to be address by congress not by law enforcement. executive is about enforcing not creating law. That is why we have a system of checks and balances. The Legislative creates laws, the exe enforces them and judiical tries to figure out what went wrong in the writing of the laws so that they do not reflect the intent of the Legislative branch.
 
But it is OK for Microsoft to read your emails because you agreed to it in the EULA.
 
It's usually a non issue. They seek the warrant in the hosting country from said hosting countrie's gov't. However if the request states "We're looking for someone who made fun of the X.Y.Z." Then Ireland can kindly tell them to "f' off", because there's no laws against that in their country.

Switzerland was different because using bank accounts for illicit purposes is against the law in just about all countries.

It reminds me where California tried to tax company satellites as physical property of a California company on California grounds. The California company said, "Let's see you retrieve them for non payment" The tax judge obviously threw it out.
 
So this is hilarious. Ireland?

What happens if Nefarious X, buys some Tanker or Cargo ships and places server farms with Sat links out in International waters. Now WHO can get access to the contents?
 
This is a hard one. Kind of damned in either way. Because either way if not fully defined can be abused. If you let companies put everything over seas with no way to then get access then the company can hide stuff in other countries with nothing to make them have to turn it over. On the flip side if you make it so that anyone from any country can ask for data then you open it up to other countries demanding data all the time.

rezerekted said:
But it is OK for Microsoft to read your emails because you agreed to it in the EULA.
Click to expand...

Vs google who reads them then accidently exposes them to being searchable by the world time to time. And also owns everything you have in the email.
 
Exavior said:
This is a hard one. Kind of damned in either way. Because either way if not fully defined can be abused. If you let companies put everything over seas with no way to then get access then the company can hide stuff in other countries with nothing to make them have to turn it over. On the flip side if you make it so that anyone from any country can ask for data then you open it up to other countries demanding data all the time.



Vs google who reads them then accidently exposes them to being searchable by the world time to time. And also owns everything you have in the email.
Click to expand...

there is a way
the US can go that another country and ask them to pull the data
if they have a legit reason they every thing is fine
 
Elios said:
there is a way
the US can go that another country and ask them to pull the data
if they have a legit reason they every thing is fine
Click to expand...

Then I put my server into a country that doesn't give a fuck. Just like how they put money into Swiss bank accounts now. People will do the same for servers. You put your data into our servers and we don't give it over to anyone as our country doesn't follow the same laws that you do.
 
Exavior said:
Then I put my server into a country that doesn't give a fuck. Just like how they put money into Swiss bank accounts now. People will do the same for servers. You put your data into our servers and we don't give it over to anyone as our country doesn't follow the same laws that you do.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the wonderful world of how black market // ilegal activities servers are hosted.
 
xX_Jack_Carver_Xx said:
So this is hilarious. Ireland?

What happens if Nefarious X, buys some Tanker or Cargo ships and places server farms with Sat links out in International waters. Now WHO can get access to the contents?
Click to expand...

Don't laugh, but there were plans by Google at one point to create a server farm in international waters powered by waves. All this to avoid taxes and potential regulatory issues
 
The feds can get fucked.

Drug investigation? In other words, government molestation of a peaceful businessman selling his own property.
 
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