The Science Of Bad Music Playlists

What does everyone think of music recommendations? Are you discovering new artists and tracks that you really like, or are you like this guy, who quickly gets bored of everything and thinks that they don't work because suggestions are similar and predictable?

Pop music is so engineered to hit your dopamine jets that it won't sustain the rush. When the music is so predictably similar, "the dopamine response will quickly diminish. It's why people love improvisational music like jazz---it's different every time."

I listen to music in a way that drives most people I know ape-shit. Same song or album on repeat, sometimes for literally months. Recommendation stuff sometimes works, just not often enough that I care to pay much attention to it. Basically, I seem to work exactly opposite from the way this article suggests. Most of the time, I have to force myself to listen to something new so I can try some new music.

I also don't like improvisational jazz... at all... So yea, I dunno

cortexodus said:

I listen to music in a way that drives most people I know ape-shit. Same song or album on repeat, sometimes for literally months.

Click to expand...

I'm kind of the same way. I'm into Trance/Electronic and when I catch a good tune I'll play it to death and put it into my play it to death playlist.

Cortexodus; I'm the same way. Drives my wife up the wall.

• I have a system now to handle that now.
• I find the Google Play 'I'm feeling lucky' recommendations are decent.
• I usually give a song 10-15 seconds before hitting thumbs down.
• In 5-10 minutes I'll get through 20 or so songs.
• 2 or 3 of those will have a thumbs up.
• I have a playlist called 3 or less (plays).
• I'll usually thumb down half the songs that make it on this list.
• My thumbs up list has slowly matured over the last 2 years.
• I seems that I'm adding a song a day in monthly bites.

Where things differ is on the 'moods' or 'stations' that Google Play has. These are often really good since they focus on one thing. An example is the 'Songs to raise your children to' station.

heatlesssun said:

I'm kind of the same way. I'm into Trance/Electronic and when I catch a good tune I'll play it to death and put it into my play it to death playlist.

Click to expand...

I find listening habits tend to differ once you're into a genre with a lot of 10+ minute tracks. The inherent length of the material follows its own dopamine response curve, something you don't get from mere 3 minute pop tracks.

Where things differ is on the 'moods' or 'stations' that Google Play has. These are often really good since they focus on one thing. An example is the 'Songs to raise your children to' station.[/QUOTE]

And this is an example of why automated stuff isn't generally what gets me introduced to something different in music! I wasn't aware of this channel/playlist thing at all. Thanks!

MaddBomber83 said:

Cortexodus; I'm the same way. Drives my wife up the wall.

• I usually give a song 10-15 seconds before hitting thumbs down.

Click to expand...

That's a pretty bad rule... I take it you don't listen to much, because there are some songs out there which change dramatically from start to finish.

For instance Count of Tuscany by Dream Theater. Probably one of the best examples I can think of. A melodic journey through and through. Or this Violin Concerto piece. My favorite part is some number of minutes in. Also a bit towards the end.

Astra Heights also has many songs that either tell a tale or change throughout listening. For instance, this one takes quite a while to pick up.

Oh and I don't expect anyone to really be into anime here, but for instance the Higurashi opening (which I think has excellent composition considering the contents of the show) doesn't really pick up until past 15-20 seconds.

(None of these links are illegal or anything) I could grab more examples, but frankly it doesn't matter. Your tastes could be vastly different, so you start up one of these and say "what is this trash?" and then nothing I say has any hold on you because the opinions are incompatible.

The such a short rule shows a bit too little respect for music though, imo. Even if I initially dislike songs or feel lukewarm towards them, I leave them on my playlist. Sometimes through gradual acclimation, I can come to like and respect the tracks and their decisions, and thus my horizons expand a bit. Of course, some people think that I'm crazy because I can go from listening Touhou music to violin pieces to rock pieces. Well maybe that's a bad example anyway. "Touhou music" in and of itself encompasses every single genre in existence in terms of possible breadth.

Anyway, my problem with Pandora and many other music services is that they don't have enough breadth of content. Pandora is especially a big offender. Grooveshark was great, but of course the legality of the site was questionable and they were taken down. But they had everything from Ar Tonelico to David Garrett. I get entirely where this guy is coming from. With Pandora especially, you have to literally battle against it to keep a playlist relevant. What happens is that I start downvoting songs that thematically don't fit with the type of sound that I try to achieve, but the system overcompensates for my downvote and eventually everything stays exactly the same. That downvote just means "not quite that direction", not, "stop trying to innovate period..." I just stopped using Pandora entirely. It's annoying. Nowadays when I'm forced to use it, I don't make a playlist that aims towards any sound at all. I just throw a bunch of utterly conflicting crap on there so it doesn't know wtf it's doing.

I own well over 300 physical CDs, dozens of digital CDs and countless pirated "trials," (I genuinely buy CDs I listen to more than once though).

Pandora suggestions help me find bands I've never heard of for sure, but Amazon works way better for me to find new bands. The "other people also bought..." or their "you might like..." sections work wonderfully. I love finding new bands as many in the types I like only make one or two good albums (yes, there are plenty of exceptions) before loosing the emotion/energy they had.

Surprisingly, if you go to youtube and their their autogenerated music playlists, you can actually do a pretty good job of picking up bands that are similar to what you're listening to. Though, I think their engine is based off of what other people listen to after listening to that song (or perhaps keyword similarity), so sometimes it's similar in another sense than what you're thinking of. IE you listen to the ED of one series. The playlist has another ED from that series; they're related by series, but they're very far part musically. Either way, youtube is the best free music app, funny enough. They have almost everything on there... Practically a Grooveshark replacement that is somehow legal.

StoleMyOwnCar said:

That's a pretty bad rule... I take it you don't listen to much, because there are some songs out there which change dramatically from start to finish.
Anyway, my problem with Pandora and many other music services is that they don't have enough breadth of content.

Click to expand...

Nah, I think we are on the same page.
- If I don't like the intro, it is a skip a bit and see, repeated until the end. If I can't stand it then it goes thumbs down.
- A thumbs up is for a song I can tolerate. "initially dislike songs or feel lukewarm towards them"
- It stays on the 3 or less listens play list while "I leave them on my playlist. Sometimes through gradual acclimation."
- Last check is when they come off that playlist.

I most certainly have a fraction of your breadth given the limited number of songs I have.
- 690 songs, 455 albums, 307 artists, 53 artists.

StoleMyOwnCar said:

Anyway, my problem with Pandora and many other music services is that they don't have enough breadth of content.

Click to expand...

Give Google's service a look. They typically have whatever I'm looking for; if not I just upload it to their server.