Curbing Online Abuse Isn’t Impossible

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There is another editorial on the subject of curbing online abuse posted today at Wired. I know how much you guys like to debate this topic, so here you go.

The good news, though, is that Internet harassment can be combated and reduced. While the problem is far from solved, a few online communities—especially in the world of multiplayer gaming, which has long struggled with issues of incivility and abuse—have come up with some innovative techniques to deter harassers and sometimes even reform them.
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It is a sad day when online s***-talking (*cough* and censorship *cough*) is now "bullying" and can land you in real life prison.

The same people fighting for net neutrality are the same ones who don't want their poor babies seeing bad words about them on Facebook. Society wasn't / isn't ready for mixing bowl that is the internet...and whatever it will become in the next 10 years will be an ugly ugly thing...
 
I think one of the best methods for dealing with the random internet ass was how we used to handle them on the UT servers I helped admin. We had a system in place where if we banned someone we had to post in the admin section of the forum the player info and the offense. Then if that person wanted to come back and play they had to make a public thread to appeal. Usually only took one time of that to correct the issue. Certain offenses like cheating were usually met with perma bans that got escalated to the Unrealadmin anti-cheat and global ban list.

I realize for something like X-Box live and Steam it's exponentially more difficult to police, but if players realized that they might get temp bans extending from 24 hours to 30 days it would clean things up in fairly short order and would become easier to manage. Unfortunately though it takes a lot of effort to actually get someplace like Valve(Steam) to actually take note of even the worst offenders.

Realistically though, in real life there's certain areas we might avoid as to not encounter the "undesirables" of the world. On the internet we're all just a click away from each other worldwide.
 
I think we do a pretty damn good job of it around here, but that is because the community polices itself.
 
lilbabycat said:
It is a sad day when online s***-talking (*cough* and censorship *cough*) is now "bullying" and can land you in real life prison.

The same people fighting for net neutrality are the same ones who don't want their poor babies seeing bad words about them on Facebook. Society wasn't / isn't ready for mixing bowl that is the internet...and whatever it will become in the next 10 years will be an ugly ugly thing...
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Where to begin with this post...

How 'bout the fact that to begin with you say it will be a sad day, when the "ugly ugly thing"s of the internet incur real life consequences and then close your post out by acknowledging that the internet will become said "ugly ugly thing". You'd prefer to stand idly by and let the internet fester instead of doing ANYTHING to help stop it?

What would you say to the woman who logged hundreds of harrassment incidents she endured in years of online gaming. I've heard it before in a MOBA game. Guys freak out when they hear a girl. Half the guys are nice and half of them will tease her or make inappropriate sexual comments. Anyone can help the problem of crappy online behavior. If people just call them out on the mic, without stooping to their level, I think it could help a bit.

Heres what those authors had to say about your claim:

Too often, though, we talk about online abuse like we talk about bad weather: We shake our heads, shrug, and assume there’s nothing we can do. The behavior is so prevalent that it’s seen as an inextricable part of online culture. As a widely read article in January’s Pacific Standard noted, “Internet harassment is routinely dismissed as ‘harmless locker-room talk,’ perpetrators as ‘juvenile pranksters,’ and victims as ‘overly sensitive complainers.’” What else, in other words, would you expect from the Internet? But the Internet is now where we socialize, where we work. It’s where we meet our spouses, where we build our reputations. Online harassment isn’t just inconvenient, nor is it something we can walk away from with ease. It’s abhorrent behavior that has real social, professional, and economic costs. And the big social networks where most Americans spend time online—Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, and the rest—aren’t doing nearly enough to address the problem.​
 
jtemplin said:
Where to begin with this post...

How 'bout the fact that to begin with you say it will be a sad day, when the "ugly ugly thing"s of the internet incur real life consequences and then close your post out by acknowledging that the internet will become said "ugly ugly thing". You'd prefer to stand idly by and let the internet fester instead of doing ANYTHING to help stop it?

What would you say to the woman who logged hundreds of harrassment incidents she endured in years of online gaming. I've heard it before in a MOBA game. Guys freak out when they hear a girl. Half the guys are nice and half of them will tease her or make inappropriate sexual comments. Anyone can help the problem of crappy online behavior. If people just call them out on the mic, without stooping to their level, I think it could help a bit.

Heres what those authors had to say about your claim:

Too often, though, we talk about online abuse like we talk about bad weather: We shake our heads, shrug, and assume there’s nothing we can do. The behavior is so prevalent that it’s seen as an inextricable part of online culture. As a widely read article in January’s Pacific Standard noted, “Internet harassment is routinely dismissed as ‘harmless locker-room talk,’ perpetrators as ‘juvenile pranksters,’ and victims as ‘overly sensitive complainers.’” What else, in other words, would you expect from the Internet? But the Internet is now where we socialize, where we work. It’s where we meet our spouses, where we build our reputations. Online harassment isn’t just inconvenient, nor is it something we can walk away from with ease. It’s abhorrent behavior that has real social, professional, and economic costs. And the big social networks where most Americans spend time online—Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, and the rest—aren’t doing nearly enough to address the problem.​
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I've been gaming online since it was available to do so. As such i've seen everything the internet and especially gamer's can throw at you. This notion that women are somehow targeted unfairly is complete and utter bullshit. Everyone in games are targets to the same insults. Women are just trying to push this stupid ass agenda where they are victims of additional abuse. They aren't, they get the same treatment as everyone else, they take it personally. As far as the incidents where someone does take it too far? Those are extreme cases and I've seen a few. They are exceptionally rare though and really there is overwhelmingly more crying about the run of the mill insults that everyone gets and the females are just blowing shit out of proportion. My wife has gamed beside me for years and has seen everything I have and even she thinks its stupid.

The short of that is, Fix all the females crying foul over every single perceived insult and I will care about the extreme few that do get on the receiving end of a creep. But until you can show me empirically what the actual number of creep encounters are without all the "but I'm a delicate flower" whines, then and only then will I back anything that attempts to cram rules down our throats. As to the "example" of the woman who logged hundreds of harassment incidents, I call bullshit. Either she somehow managed to attract more creeps than I have seen in hundreds of games combined over the years, or most of her claims were petty. Being how I've seen so much over the years, I would go with most if not all were petty. It's like the story of the boy who cried wolf..with all the ones crying foul at every trivial thing, the extremely few legitimate incidents get drowned out and ignored.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
I've been gaming online since it was available to do so. As such i've seen everything the internet and especially gamer's can throw at you. This notion that women are somehow targeted unfairly is complete and utter bullshit. Everyone in games are targets to the same insults. Women are just trying to push this stupid ass agenda where they are victims of additional abuse. They aren't, they get the same treatment as everyone else, they take it personally. As far as the incidents where someone does take it too far? Those are extreme cases and I've seen a few. They are exceptionally rare though and really there is overwhelmingly more crying about the run of the mill insults that everyone gets and the females are just blowing shit out of proportion. My wife has gamed beside me for years and has seen everything I have and even she thinks its stupid.

The short of that is, Fix all the females crying foul over every single perceived insult and I will care about the extreme few that do get on the receiving end of a creep. But until you can show me empirically what the actual number of creep encounters are without all the "but I'm a delicate flower" whines, then and only then will I back anything that attempts to cram rules down our throats. As to the "example" of the woman who logged hundreds of harassment incidents, I call bullshit. Either she somehow managed to attract more creeps than I have seen in hundreds of games combined over the years, or most of her claims were petty. Being how I've seen so much over the years, I would go with most if not all were petty. It's like the story of the boy who cried wolf..with all the ones crying foul at every trivial thing, the extremely few legitimate incidents get drowned out and ignored.
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I'm pretty sure the opinion of one person's wife isn't a fair measurement of how society at large feels. If that were the case, then this matter wouldn't come up for (usually pointless) discussion so often in this and many other venues. Obviously, because rape is so commonplace pretty much demonstrates that men treat women differently as the number of man-to-man rapes is a lot lower even though it's probably significantly under reported because of how fragile male egos are. Because of the high instance of rape and the frequent (in most business settings) annual retraining of men to prevent sexual harassment and abuse, it's pretty obvious that men generally have a problem that is only going to get solved through extinction of the gender and replacement with something that can at least drive a car a short distance without getting enraged and irrational or something that can see a female without gawking at her boobs/butt/legs/nose/earlobes or whatever other fetshes are out there. Your attempt to brush off the problem and assign blame to the victim of abuse just continues to demonstrate how clueless men are and how ready they are to hide from rightfully taking responsibility for their own gender's countless shortcomings.
 
This is why gaming clans are so important,even today. Matchmaking on PC killed this for a little while, but thankfully more games are releasing that allow you to have your own server. All of the solutions have been in effect for a while. Crouch servers on FPS games are the most civil servers you will ever play on. The clan members are active, and so are the moderators. Why game if you aren't having fun?
 
CreepyUncleGoogle said:
I'm pretty sure the opinion of one person's wife isn't a fair measurement of how society at large feels. If that were the case, then this matter wouldn't come up for (usually pointless) discussion so often in this and many other venues. Obviously, because rape is so commonplace pretty much demonstrates that men treat women differently as the number of man-to-man rapes is a lot lower even though it's probably significantly under reported because of how fragile male egos are. Because of the high instance of rape and the frequent (in most business settings) annual retraining of men to prevent sexual harassment and abuse, it's pretty obvious that men generally have a problem that is only going to get solved through extinction of the gender and replacement with something that can at least drive a car a short distance without getting enraged and irrational or something that can see a female without gawking at her boobs/butt/legs/nose/earlobes or whatever other fetshes are out there. Your attempt to brush off the problem and assign blame to the victim of abuse just continues to demonstrate how clueless men are and how ready they are to hide from rightfully taking responsibility for their own gender's countless shortcomings.
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Because rape and sexual harassment in the workplace are CLEARLY the same as calling someone a (dumb bitch ex) online :rolleyes:

Seriously, go troll someone else, that argument is so vapid I find it hard to believe you managed to type it even pretending to be serious.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Because rape and sexual harassment in the workplace are CLEARLY the same as calling someone a (dumb bitch ex) online :rolleyes:

Seriously, go troll someone else, that argument is so vapid I find it hard to believe you managed to type it even pretending to be serious.
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Dismiss it all you want, but that doesn't change the facts about how men act toward women. No man on the planet treats a woman the same way he treats another man and to deny that is just absurd. Ignoring the widespread criminal activities of men because it doesn't benefit your dismissal of a problem and assignment of blame on the victim is just absurd. Will you also blame grass for being at fault by dying during a drought? It certainly seems that way since the instigator and person throwing insults is clearly free from responsibility for what falls out of his hair-covered foul little mouth.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Because rape and sexual harassment in the workplace are CLEARLY the same as calling someone a (dumb bitch ex) online :rolleyes:

Seriously, go troll someone else, that argument is so vapid I find it hard to believe you managed to type it even pretending to be serious.
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Sounds like you're a male chauvinist.

You have flimsy anecdotal evidence so lets not pretend you are bringing anything to the table but your vitriolic opinion. Saying your wife is ok with what shes encountered online so that somehow applies to everyone is like me going around using the n-word just because I have a black friend. Your wifes opinion doesn't give you some special ability to know what women think.

Gimme a break. People over eager to tell everyone else about their aggressive attitudes towards how other groups of people should think or feel is EXACTLY the kind of annoying crap most normal people are tired of reading and hearing online. I dont care how intolerant or ignorant you are. Just keep it to yourself.
 
jtemplin said:
Sounds like you're a male chauvinist.

You have flimsy anecdotal evidence so lets not pretend you are bringing anything to the table but your vitriolic opinion. Saying your wife is ok with what shes encountered online so that somehow applies to everyone is like me going around using the n-word just because I have a black friend. Your wifes opinion doesn't give you some special ability to know what women think.

Gimme a break. People over eager to tell everyone else about their aggressive attitudes towards how other groups of people should think or feel is EXACTLY the kind of annoying crap most normal people are tired of reading and hearing online. I dont care how intolerant or ignorant you are. Just keep it to yourself.
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And you sound like one of the ones crying "i'm reporting you" every time someone says "you suck".

Doesn't make either statement even remotely true.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
And you sound like one of the ones crying "i'm reporting you" every time someone says "you suck".

Doesn't make either statement even remotely true.
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Well, your evidence does seem questionable given your approach which is basically something along the lines of:

I've been playing games forever (which is probably somewhat of an exaggeration) and then, after establishing your own apparent experience and credibility, you espouse an opinion you credit to your wife. It makes a reader think that the opinion you're sharing is much more your own rather than someone else's.
 
I will not waste my time. I could come up with all sorts of numbers and arguments, but I know you won't let go of your "all men are scum" mantra. Live with it, the bitterness is on you.

I'm fine enjoying life and not putting people on boxes like "all men are sexual predators" and "all women are gold diggers" or any retarded slogan that only a bitter 12-year-old could come up with, but to each his own.
 
drescherjm said:
Obviously not all men do this but I certainly do.
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Contrary to what feminists wants us all to believe, a lot of men actually do. And there are a lot of women out there who appreciate that and won't try to guilt trip you into a "all men are potential abusers" mindset.
 
So we've really gotten so damn sissy-fied that even suggesting something negative/boastful/jokingly will now land you real prison time?

There's always one option if you are one of the pussies that can't handle a few words, turn your console or PC off and go outside and play. (or at the very least turn VoIP off, or text chat)

Posting death threats on someone's facebook page is very different than telling a random stranger you are playing a game with online they suck or their mom is good in bed.

I will add this about the whole men vs women thing online -- if you want fair treatment you have to play by the same rules as everyone else. If it's normal (and fun) to suggest to your opponent they eat a bag of dicks after a heated match.... when a girl comes along and is in that same position.... if she totally freaks out and cries foul... wtf man? why would any guys want to play with someone who's unable to adapt to the atmosphere of the match.

I game on PC and the circles I play in its for the most part clean and professional, lots of cursing but great fun overall... a woman comes along and tells me I can't say the words I want to say in my own game? GTFO.

With all the privacy controls that are in existence today are people really that dumb/lazy/feeble where they don't set their profile to private to keep out the retards?

Any society you go to past or future is going to have the loud mouth retards who try to bring everyone down to their level. We have systematically taken away all classical means of dealing with these people. These days if you hit a bully in defense, YOU are the one that always seems to get in trouble.

Kids these days are literally too stupid to hit "ignore" "mute" or "unfriend".
 
drescherjm said:
Obviously not all men do this but I certainly do.
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I do as well -- and my experience has been poor to lackluster. It's the age old problem of why are women attracted to assholes?

I don't gamble, smoke, or drink heavily, educated, good job, own my own home and car. I'm very laid back and faithful but I've been single for a LONG time (32 currently) By all accounts I'm a good stand up guy who just happens to be nerdy. And to most women that means I'm boring as shit so they pass me by to go hang out with the exciting fun guy who will eventually beat them and treat them like crap.

It's the same problem that's been around for a long time - everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too. The super responsible, ultra caring and loving guy who's also exciting, smart, and all those other "awesome" things is just rare as hell. Just like finding anyone in my age range who doesn't have 3 kids or is twice divorced is rare as hell.

Solution: I've removed myself from the dating world and do whatever I want to make ME happy. While there may be some smart/nerdy/sexy woman out there, odds of me finding here are almost zero... so screw it.

If nice guys finish last, perhaps the best never finish at all.
 
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