Unlocking Cellphones Illegal, Feds Still Unhappy

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
Joined
May 9, 2000
Messages
75,399
If you thought the issue of illegal unlocking of your cellphone was a dead issue, you're dead wrong. The FCC is still on the case and working with carriers for an agreement.

But the FCC wants phone companies, Congress, and phone users alike to remember that the issue is still far from resolved.
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Who in the heck do they think they are anyways telling people that even though you purchased a phone your not allowed to alter it. I will do whatever I dam well please with my phone or anything that I own.
 
This article isn't about jailbreaking or rooting... it's about unlocking phones to work on another carrier.
 
yelsewshane said:
Who in the heck do they think they are anyways telling people that even though you purchased a phone your not allowed to alter it. I will do whatever I dam well please with my phone or anything that I own.
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Jailbreaking does allow you to obtain software illegally, in fact its one of the prime reasons why people do it. So yes, the manufactures and even app developers do have a vested LEGAL interest in it
 
VladDracule said:
Jailbreaking does allow you to obtain software illegally, in fact its one of the prime reasons why people do it. So yes, the manufactures and even app developers do have a vested LEGAL interest in it
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Sure they have a vested interest in it. But that doesn't mean they should legally be able to tell you what you can and can not do with a product you purchase.

It equivalent to Remington telling me I can't reload my own bullets or use federal ammunition just because I bought a Remington gun.

but if they pony up enough money they can write what ever laws they want.
 
Your saying they should not be able to legally protect their IP? they have every single right to protect and prevent means of piracy
 
dr.stevil said:
This article isn't about jailbreaking or rooting... it's about unlocking phones to work on another carrier.
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VladDracule said:
Jailbreaking does allow you to obtain software illegally, in fact its one of the prime reasons why people do it. So yes, the manufactures and even app developers do have a vested LEGAL interest in it
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It is a shame Vlad, you didn't read the post immediately before yours that was up 5 minutes before yours.
 
VladDracule said:
Your saying they should not be able to legally protect their IP? they have every single right to protect and prevent means of piracy
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Yep exactly what I'm saying.....Or I'm saying that once someone buys your product you no longer have explicit control over how it is used or can be used.
 
I wish we would just do away with carrier locked phones. It complicates the whole phone buying and reselling experience here in the US. Even a phone that has been heavily subsidized shouldn't be subject to carrier locks. After all, that's why we have contracts, credit checks and early termination fees.
 
False headline please change it. Jail breaking is not equal to unlocking. Jail breaking is still legal for phones through 2015 when it will be revisited under the DMCA (tablets are more questionable). This issue is not related to piracy and is related to carrier contracts.
 
stevedave said:
Yep exactly what I'm saying.....Or I'm saying that once someone buys your product you no longer have explicit control over how it is used or can be used.
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My solution would be to pay with "Licensed Money". Its the same as regular money but we get to control how they spend it. Its no more stupid than other people getting to choose how we use our legally purchased product. :)
 
My phone, I own it. I'll do with it what I want, so fuck you carrier and anyone else who thinks otherwise.
 
Phone Service providers give out phone with a 2-3 years contract to consumers. That is, give out the phone while having a contract attached. Phone Service providers can sue those who breaks the contract by cancelling it without paying the cancellation fee, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the phone. In fact, it should be illegal to put a lock on the phone in the first place.

Clearly there is something wrong with the contract as it really doesn't protect Service providers or consumers, but who draft that contract? Them! The key part is that they promote a discounted phone with a 2-3 year contract, where the truth is that the phone isn't the phone that they promoted. A phone is no longer just hardware, but software(OS) that drives it. Those Service providers heavily modified the OS so that there are other software and code that cannot be uninstalled by users. To restore the phone to its original state, the user must either have a strong technical background on phone or find a person that has to fix it. What does that mean? It means Phone Service providers sale broken goods to consumers and it is illegal for consumers to fix it.

If it is illegal for consumers to unlock phones, then all Phone Service providers must be sued because their false advertisements, promotion and misleading contracts. The truth is that consumers cannot buy a phone for cheap from them, but are able to own the phone after the contract is over, free of charge. They don't sell phones, but provide a phone to use there service.

I will like to see the compensation to all consumers whom had contracts with them and those who are still on contracts first for false advertisements. After that, with the new set of ads and contracts, there are no need to modify the law as existing laws already protect them.
 
Unlocking is easy and legal...just call the phone provider and ask for an unlock code. As long as there is no current service contract on the phone they will do it for free.
 
Gavv, once the phone is off contract, it will be unlocked if you ask. You do need to have a sim inserted from a different carrier though, unless you can find the menu to show the unlock challenge code.
 
BBA said:
Gavv, once the phone is off contract, it will be unlocked if you ask. You do need to have a sim inserted from a different carrier though, unless you can find the menu to show the unlock challenge code.
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Ok but until it is off contract...

Good to know info thanks...
 
Gavv said:
Past tell that to the software companies when you get a chance :D
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I will gladly tell that to the software companies. I will unlock, and remove the stupid protections of whatever device I choose to use if I choose to do it and there is nothing they can do about it short of trying to put it back on or making it a requirement to use their service. And that is the call of the software provider or the manufacturer or carrier.

If I unlock/jailbreak my phone to run software from sources other than the play store or whatever manufacturer store is out there then I run the risk. The software MAY have limitations to keep it from working in that scenario. I have to deal with that.

Because I choose to gain additional function through group sourced or un approved sources does not inherently make me a person that is "bad" and or a "pirate" (arrrrrrr) It simply means I want to explore other features or options.

If you really think that way please turn off whatever computer you happen to be on if it can get software from someone other than your licensed distributors. Like oh I don't know. shareware or open source solutions like notepad++. Those would never be allowed to exist on a locked platform.

I hope you are actually trolling here. Because your point is so rife with problems it stinks like old cheese.
 
Wow love the post. :) no I am a big supporter of doing what you want with your own shit, just making the observation/comparison. So much stuff today you can't just do things with without some form of legality somewhere.

Don't bunch up your panties to much :D
 
If I paid for it -- I can do whatever I want with it. If there is a technical way to use MY property to access a service or network i PAY for... what the hell does anyone have any business telling me what I can and can't do?

If a company gives me a 700 dollar smart phone for $25 dollars with the stipulation I can't unlock it, fine, I obey the terms of any contract I enter into. If there was no specific wording that a consumer agreed to NOT modify the hardware they OWNED... then piss off.

If someone told me I couldn't tinker with something I bought -- hah I'd laugh and take my money elsewhere.

If a company wants to keep a consumer under lock and key for hardware and software -- it's going to cost them. You'd have to damn near give me the device for free, for me to be interested in an agreement like that.
 
To make things simple and stop all the worry of what you can and can not do, they should simply pass a law that makes it illegal for carriers to give you a free or discounted phone with any contract. Simply have the cost of the contract and you buy whatever fucking phone you want. Oh no that would be unfair because then carrier couldn't be able to fool you with how "free" your phone isn't, and couldn't use bribes to entice you.
 
i havent read every post but some people are forgetting that until your 2-year contract is up, you DO NOT own your phone. you are renting to own, and paying that rental fee every month with your contract. therefore your phone company owns your phone and can do as they please with it. once your contract is up, (or if you bought your phone outright to start) then you own your phone and can ask for an unlock code or root it or do as your please for sure.
 
and to add, that is why i am with tmobile. i love their service, and their policy of no contracts and encouraging you to bring your own phone is awesome. shame their service sucks in some places, because i think theyre a great company and i love supporting them. :)
 
ekuest said:
i havent read every post but some people are forgetting that until your 2-year contract is up, you DO NOT own your phone. you are renting to own, and paying that rental fee every month with your contract. therefore your phone company owns your phone and can do as they please with it. once your contract is up, (or if you bought your phone outright to start) then you own your phone and can ask for an unlock code or root it or do as your please for sure.
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Really, You really honestly think that? Then do me a favor. Call up your phone company say you want to give your phone back and get a different one. See what they say.

They will offer to BUY it back from you but they know for a fact that they do not own it. And considering the rate of depreciation on cell phones... they don't WANT to own it. It is more profitable to give it away attached to a 2 year contract than it is to keep it.

That's how AT&T operates in the US at least. At no time was I under the impression that I was "renting" this phone.

Furthermore as long as I am not materially altering the device they have ZERO grounds for claim of damage especially if I put the phone back to factory standard before my "rental" is up. (Wow.. I can't even pretend that makes any sense.)

Seriously where did you get this you rent your phone crap. I think someone is shoveling a giant pile of crap on your plate and you're just asking for more please.
 
I suspect not one single person in this thread actually read the article, but instead reacted to a rather unclear headline.
 
VladDracule said:
Jailbreaking does allow you to obtain software illegally, in fact its one of the prime reasons why people do it. So yes, the manufactures and even app developers do have a vested LEGAL interest in it
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It's not the prime reason why people do it. Mostly for tethering and software you couldn't obtain off the app store. Most of the iPhones and Android software is crap. People don't bother pirating crap.

Keep in mind that to unlock an iPhone you do need to jailbreak usually.

VladDracule said:
Your saying they should not be able to legally protect their IP? they have every single right to protect and prevent means of piracy
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They can do whatever they want, so long as it doesn't prevent me from doing whatever I want. Jailbreaking and unlocking is something I want. Their draconian methods won't always work forever. If it doesn't work the way I want, then I'll move on to something that does.

I of course don't own an iPhone, but I do own an Android, and they'll come down on that as well eventually. I plan to move onto the Ubuntu phone.
 
VladDracule said:
Your saying they should not be able to legally protect their IP? they have every single right to protect and prevent means of piracy
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Their right to protect their IP ends where my ownership and privacy begins.

Or at least it should anyways. These people have lots of lobbying power and lots of money and there are plenty of govt. regulators, judges, and congressmen who are all too willing to sell themselves.
 
You buy a subsidized from a carrier, of course its going to have some control over what you do with it.
 
It's my REGISTERED frequencies, I paid good money for it, I'll decide who get's to transmit data (see use a phone or whatever) over these frequencies.

Same argument you guys are using with the my phone, I can use it however I want.

Two can play that game, but since you are talking about bringing your toy truck to play in MY SANDBOX, I can just kick you out, and you can do #$% with your truck somewhere else.
It would suck if your truck was built with wheels that only worked in MY SANDBOX. (see radio antennas)
 
Grimlaking said:
Really, You really honestly think that? Then do me a favor. Call up your phone company say you want to give your phone back and get a different one. See what they say.

They will offer to BUY it back from you but they know for a fact that they do not own it. And considering the rate of depreciation on cell phones... they don't WANT to own it. It is more profitable to give it away attached to a 2 year contract than it is to keep it.

That's how AT&T operates in the US at least. At no time was I under the impression that I was "renting" this phone.

Furthermore as long as I am not materially altering the device they have ZERO grounds for claim of damage especially if I put the phone back to factory standard before my "rental" is up. (Wow.. I can't even pretend that makes any sense.)

Seriously where did you get this you rent your phone crap. I think someone is shoveling a giant pile of crap on your plate and you're just asking for more please.
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why the hell would i do that? i bought my phone outright and i pay $30/mo for unlimited text and data and more minutes than i use. i couldnt be happier with my phone and phone service.

but to play devil's advocate: if you offered to sell your phone back to them, then they would offer to buy it back for the prorated price of what you still owe on it (the MSRP minus what you paid for it then didved by 2 if for example you had it for 1 year out of 2 on contract) then adjusted for devaluing over a year. if you think that the free iphone you got when you signed your contract was a nice gift from them because they love you, then youre clearly deluding yourself. that "free" phone is the reason your unlimited plan costs $60 and mine costs $30. that $30 times 24 months equals the actual amount you are paying for your phone: $720.
 
RangerXML said:
You buy a subsidized from a carrier, of course its going to have some control over what you do with it.
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Its bad enough that the carriers think this should be so but its even worse that average people have been effectively brainwashed into supporting the corporate interests above their own privacy and ownership rights.
 
mesyn191 said:
Its bad enough that the carriers think this should be so but its even worse that average people have been effectively brainwashed into supporting the corporate interests above their own privacy and ownership rights.
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You own the phone, not arguing with you there, but you are buying in effect an electronic device with the understanding that you get it at a heavy discount (compared to unlocked versions from around the world) to use it on their network. This is not brainwashing, this is understanding the terms of the contract that I entered into with the company. You can buy unlocked, un-subsidized phones that you can put onto a plan, its just going to cost you the actual cost of the phone. There is a huge problem every time an iPhone is released that people buy them, under contract and then ditch the contract and resell them for a huge mark up, these people I consider scum (means I can't get an iPhone unless I pre-order or wait a month after release or pay inflated prices).
 
RangerXML said:
You buy a subsidized from a carrier, of course its going to have some control over what you do with it.
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I buy a subsidized phone from my carrier as an agreement that I will stay with them for x amount of time or pay a cancellation fee. That's it.
 
RangerXML said:
but you are buying in effect an electronic device with the understanding that you get it at a heavy discount (compared to unlocked versions from around the world) to use it on their network.
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As has already been pointed out this is false. You get the device for an initially lower fee with a contract and they get a "locked in" consumer for X amount of time. Financially this is a big win for the carriers in the long run and is bad for the consumer but people in general are terrible at managing their finances and get suckered by that low initial price.

The invasion of privacy and erosion of property rights is a relatively new thing that the carriers are trying, and unfortunately getting away with and that is not at all a good or even really tolerable thing. That you fail to see this as so is where reality for you ends and the corporate propaganda you've been brainwashed into repeating begins.
 
Is this really a issue with more and more carriers moving away from contracts and having customers pay full retail for their phones?
 
I'm really not getting why people think that a phone (still under it's inital contract) being locked is anti-competitive. The carrier has a vested interested in the phone. And yes, it IS an implied loan. You get a $700 phone for $199 and a compleded 2 year contract. If you decide to end your contract 1 year early, you owe the remaining $250.50 . That sounds an aweful lot like a loan to me. They don't word it like that so they dont have to run a credit check (that a lot of people wouldn't be able to pass).

So how about this.
You get a $700 phone for $199 with a two year contract. You have the phone for two years. At 24 months and 1 second the carrier is REQUIRED to unlock it (even if you don't ask them to).
And if you opt to cancel you contract early (and pay the ETF) then they automaticly un-lock it.

Thay way they get the protection (that they should be allowed to have), and you get the phone when it is finished being paid off.

The carrier can't afford to sue someone who get the phone at a $500 discount and then jumps to another carrier. But just because it wouldn't make financial sense doesn't make it ok.

So the only other option is if all the carriers agreed to blacklist (refuese to give service to) any phone that hasn't either finished it's inital contract or paid the ETF.
 
Next thing you know, they are going try and force people to buy insura....err, nevermind. ;)

I actually have to support THIS^. If you got your phone on a contract, then it's not really your phone until you finish the contract. You want to carrier jump, etc....you need to actually BUY the phone.

This is not different than renting a house. Sure you pay money to live in said house, but it doesn't give you the right to tear it up, repaint it, etc. without a penalty.
 
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