Jon Stewart Takes On Apple

Taxes here are getting insane though... :mad: I blame our Government of course.
 
Even Jon Stewart misses the point when he says
"How Apple avoided paying taxes on $44 Billion in income..."

People, they did not AVOID paying anything. They used perfectly legal loopholes put in place BY CONGRESS and broke no laws. Never mind that large portions of the money was earned overseas and the U.S. has ZERO claim to it.

Look I think companies should pay a bit more tax but the real issue here is that CONGRESS screwed up. Apple did what every other multi-national company did in that position. What about GE and Exxon-Mobile? They did the same thing.

Congress is the problem here and they are simply putting on a show for the people.
 
The Gonz said:
Even Jon Stewart misses the point when he says
"How Apple avoided paying taxes on $44 Billion in income..."

People, they did not AVOID paying anything. They used perfectly legal loopholes put in place BY CONGRESS and broke no laws. Never mind that large portions of the money was earned overseas and the U.S. has ZERO claim to it.

Look I think companies should pay a bit more tax but the real issue here is that CONGRESS screwed up. Apple did what every other multi-national company did in that position. What about GE and Exxon-Mobile? They did the same thing.

Congress is the problem here and they are simply putting on a show for the people.
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Ummm...you realise that actual human being who are US citizens must pay income tax on income earned overseas to the US...as well as whatever country the income is earned in...don't you?

"Zero claim" indeed. If you or I did what Apple does, we'd be in jail.
 
Skripka said:
Ummm...you realise that actual human being who are US citizens must pay income tax on income earned overseas to the US...as well as whatever country the income is earned in...don't you?

"Zero claim" indeed. If you or I did what Apple does, we'd be in jail.
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Yep, and we are only one of very few places to tax like that. Its BS, if your not working in the USB you are not consuming US resources hince I do not believe you should be taxed.

Now if you have property in the US you should be taxed on that.
 
just hit agree!

human-centipede-sketch.jpg
 
Skripka said:
"Zero claim" indeed. If you or I did what Apple does, we'd be in jail.
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Technically, what they did is legal. It's morally unjust, but legal and they are surely not the only one multinational company doing this. Yes, and you are also right about your claim: if it were an individual, especially one without tons of money or politicians in their back pocket, they would be investigated, eventually being found liable.
 
Skripka said:
Ummm...you realise that actual human being who are US citizens must pay income tax on income earned overseas to the US...as well as whatever country the income is earned in...don't you?

"Zero claim" indeed. If you or I did what Apple does, we'd be in jail.
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Yes I realize that completely but what does comparing the tax law of an individual to the tax law of a business have to do with this discussion. It's apples and oranges.

Tax laws of business are different and set up by Congress. Now they complain when companies take full advantage of them. Don't blame the company for doing what is legal (whether you like it or not is irrelevant) blame the government for setting up the system such as it is.
 
The Gonz said:
Yes I realize that completely but what does comparing the tax law of an individual to the tax law of a business have to do with this discussion. It's apples and oranges.

Tax laws of business are different and set up by Congress. Now they complain when companies take full advantage of them. Don't blame the company for doing what is legal (whether you like it or not is irrelevant) blame the government for setting up the system such as it is.
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Apples and Oranges? Corporations are people now. And have been for a few years. It is just some of us are people when we want to be....and off shore tax exempt when we don't.

The tax code we have is intentionally complex, due to corporate lobbying....now they're unhappy that they got the complicated tax code they want...and want it simpler. There's a reason they want it simpler too, because they see the opportunity to pay even less in taxes. Difference being, that when I got what I wanted my mom told me to get over myself...Congress OTOH is clearly a lapdog for these creeps who want a free ride while employing as few Americans as possible.
 
We are all at fault- the people keep buying their products and our government lets them do what they do. Do you honestly think people will stop buying and our govern is actually going to do something? Not going to happen.
 
I wish all liberals were like Jon Stewart! :D

We don't agree on absolutely everything, but I like that he has a healthy "bullshit meter", and won't be an apologist for ANY side of the political spectrum which is something I strongly subscribe to as well. So many people pick a side and look the other way when absurdity stares them in the face, and even if they recognize it will just deflect and say "well XYZ does that too" which is such an idiotic dismissive response.
Skripka said:
The tax code we have is intentionally complex, due to corporate lobbying....now they're unhappy that they got the complicated tax code they want...and want it simpler.
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Only simpler if that simplification means paying even less than they already do.
 
Yes corporations are considered individuals. But I will truly believe that only after Texas executes one.

I agree with what you say about the lobbying. But it still stands that the tax laws are different for businesses and people.

Congress took the lobbying money and made the rules. Companies followed said rules. Congress is now complaining companies aren't being fair.

It is time to clean house of our elected officials in Congress.


And the whole overseas income issue always seemed obvious to me.
If A company is supposed to pay tax here in the US for money it made in let's say England. And it's supposed to pay tax in England for the money it made in England, what's left won't be much. It's paying double tax.

Regardless, my point remains. Congress is trying to divert the blame away from themselves on to companies.
 
ravx25 said:
Technically, what they did is legal. It's morally unjust, but legal and they are surely not the only one multinational company doing this. Yes, and you are also right about your claim: if it were an individual, especially one without tons of money or politicians in their back pocket, they would be investigated, eventually being found liable.
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You (citizen) can't be in Ireland and working while you're in the US and working. The comparison is silly.
 
I wish Apple would pack up and leave the country completely. I mean that as a supporter of theirs in this, not in a childish Waaa! just leave if you won't pay your fair share. We would be better off kind of way.

Really, I no longer support the US as a whole. I love the idea of what it was, but not what it has become. I'm all for every corporation and person of means leaving if they so desire, be it to more business friendly states or to other countries entirely. Let the leeches die for want of a host.
 
Smashing Young Man said:
I wish Apple would pack up and leave the country completely. I mean that as a supporter of theirs in this, not in a childish Waaa! just leave if you won't pay your fair share. We would be better off kind of way.

Really, I no longer support the US as a whole. I love the idea of what it was, but not what it has become. I'm all for every corporation and person of means leaving if they so desire, be it to more business friendly states or to other countries entirely. Let the leeches die for want of a host.
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Ummm...Apple already barely employs any Americans...and most of those are only their retail employees. There's not a whole lot left for them to "pack up and leave", as they're barely here in the first place. And those few jobs that they actually are responsible for would exist whether their base of operations was here or not.
 
Smashing Young Man said:
I wish Apple would pack up and leave the country completely. I mean that as a supporter of theirs in this, not in a childish Waaa! just leave if you won't pay your fair share. We would be better off kind of way.

Really, I no longer support the US as a whole. I love the idea of what it was, but not what it has become. I'm all for every corporation and person of means leaving if they so desire, be it to more business friendly states or to other countries entirely. Let the leeches die for want of a host.
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Hmm, so when are you moving out?
 
Smashing Young Man said:
Let the leeches die for want of a host
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Paying taxes is like paying rent to your landlord. Do you consider your landlord to be a "leech" or do you consider the tennant that won't pay his dues to be the mooching delinquent that needs correction (especially if he can afford it removing any sympathy)?

Why do you imagine that all companies don't just set up shop in Ethiopia or Cambodia?

Oh, all of the sudden that United States armed forces protection, court system, market access, infrastructure, and everything starts to seem pretty attractive doesn't it? So if you want to set up shop here, great, pay your RENT!

Now, if the argument is that "the rent is too damn high", it absolutely is not in the United States. For a first-world country, we have very low corporate taxes.

Rent-Is-Too-Damn-High.jpg
 
Skripka said:
Ummm...you realise that actual human being who are US citizens must pay income tax on income earned overseas to the US...as well as whatever country the income is earned in...don't you?
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It may not have occurred to you that Apple isn't a U.S. citizen, nor is Apple even classified as a human being.

Skripka said:
Ummm...Apple already barely employs any Americans..
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307,250 U.S. employees is not what I'd call "barely any".
 
Stuck in Canada and I cannot see The Daily Show on the Comedy Central page :(

Without seeing it I can assume Jon Stewart is correct and funny at the same time.
 
wonderfield said:
It may not have occurred to you that Apple isn't a U.S. citizen, nor is Apple even classified as a human being.


307,250 U.S. employees is not what I'd call "barely any".
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Most work in retail, retail sucks and isn't a real career for most.
 
dr.kevin said:
I like how the senators were pretty much sucking Apple dick in that hearing.
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You mean as opposed to the Senators bashing Apple for taking advantage of the laws that the Senate approved?

This is just another dog and pony show by Congress to distract people from the truth.

Congress created a 74K page tax code, and then rip into companies that follow it? How many of those senators do you think pay a penny more in taxes then they absolutely have to?
 
Apple should be investigated to see if they broke any laws. If they didn't, the investigation and the hearings should be used to improve the tax code. There's no need to rip into the CEO if they didn't break any laws. Learn how they are legally dodging the taxes and plug the holes.
 
Smashing Young Man said:
I wish Apple would pack up and leave the country completely. I mean that as a supporter of theirs in this, not in a childish Waaa! just leave if you won't pay your fair share. We would be better off kind of way.

Really, I no longer support the US as a whole. I love the idea of what it was, but not what it has become. I'm all for every corporation and person of means leaving if they so desire, be it to more business friendly states or to other countries entirely. Let the leeches die for want of a host.
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You do realize that such changes are because of Apple, Microsoft, Sony and pretty much every corporations out there, right?
 
DarkStar_WNY said:
Congress created a 74K page tax code, and then rip into companies that follow it? How many of those senators do you think pay a penny more in taxes then they absolutely have to?
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none. That's why most of them are millionaires.
 
Best part is when Mc Cain said that Apple changed the world. Apple has never invented anything. If they think the iPhone was the first smart phone, then they need to explain Windows Mobile phones and Symbian phones that's been out for over a decade.

I swear, it's like to get solar power in everyone's home then Apple needs to invite the iSolar. Even though solar has been around forever, and Apple will charge more then anything else for it.
 
Outamyhead said:
How many Billions of people live here again?
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300 million Americans, maybe 1.5 billion undocumented aliens? :D Fail.

And Christ, if 300K+ employees isn't a major precense, I don't know what is. That is massive for a company, in fact anything over 100K+ is considered big-time.
 
wonderfield said:
It may not have occurred to you that Apple isn't a U.S. citizen, nor is Apple even classified as a human being.


307,250 U.S. employees is not what I'd call "barely any".
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Do you actually believe that number?

I'll give you a hint. That number includes iOS devs, it includes the FedEx delivery man who hands you your macbook from Shipping, and it includes the health care providers office rats use... In addition to retail employees that would be here whether Apple was headquartered here or not.

The actual number of Americans getting a paycheck from Apple is less than 1/4 the number you cite.
 
PersonalJ said:
Most work in retail, retail sucks and isn't a real career for most.
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Not really relevant. He said Apple "barely employs any Americans". They're actually one the largest employers of Americans, perhaps second only to Walmart if you don't include government organizations.
 
Skripka said:
I'll give you a hint. That number includes iOS devs
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It doesn't, actually, but you're correct on the other bit. The actual number of U.S. Apple employees is indeed much less: 50,250.

That still hardly qualifies as "barely any". I can't determine where that puts Apple in terms of number of U.S. employees compared to other companies (SEC filings only indicate worldwide employees, so they're of no use to us), but it's still easily well up there on the list.
 
wonderfield said:
It doesn't, actually, but you're correct on the other bit. The actual number of U.S. Apple employees is indeed much less: 50,250.

That still hardly qualifies as "barely any". I can't determine where that puts Apple in terms of number of U.S. employees compared to other companies (SEC filings only indicate worldwide employees, so they're of no use to us), but it's still easily well up there on the list.
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They don't even make the top 50:

http://www.statisticbrain.com/u-s-largest-employers/
 
LeninGHOLA said:
You're either top 50 or you employ barely any people now.
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Like lots of tech companies...they make a shit ton of money, Apple more than any other last I knew....and offshore the profits to avoid paying taxes, and pay their workers here and elsewhere shit.
 
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