Poland Signs Controversial Copyright Treaty

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I have a feeling this isn't going to end well.

ACTA is a far-reaching agreement that aims to harmonize international standards on protecting the rights of those who produce music, movies, pharmaceuticals, fashion, and a range of other products that often fall victim to intellectual property theft. It shares some similarities with the hotly debated Stop Online Piracy Act in the U.S., which was shelved by lawmakers last week.
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Maybe it'll go the way of the Kyoto Accords where many nations signed it, but the United States didn't. The way we all rose up against SOPA and PIPA, I don't see us voting for this either - I hope.
 
From the sounds of it, the Polish are ready to have a riot over there. Their government, much like every other government, is not listening to the people.

I think that we're at a point where nothing we do will discourage governments to leave the internet alone. A law is only as good as it's enforced, and something tells me that it's going to be common practice to get around it. Get used to the idea of having an underground internet, cause that seems to be the best thing we can do at this point.

What's disturbing is how ACTA protects against pharmaceutical drugs. Really? People need this medicine and lawmakers are more concerned about people duplicating medicine, for usually much cheaper?
 
conscript said:
oh great, now Anonymous is going to invade Poland...
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already did.. few .gov sites in Poland are down :D

...and today I'm ashamed to be Polish. fucking idiots signed something they don't fully understand after the whole country said "NO, don't do this." Huge spit in the face to those who elected you. Shame.
 
Azhar said:
Maybe it'll go the way of the Kyoto Accords where many nations signed it, but the United States didn't. The way we all rose up against SOPA and PIPA, I don't see us voting for this either - I hope.
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US signed it in September.
 
Anonymous invading Poland like a boss. :)

not ling Poland has anything, remember Poland pokemon ball?

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polandball1.jpg
 
Now the only good thing from Poland is Iga Wyrwal ;)

(I jest...except for the Iga Wyrwal part...)
 
Azhar said:
Maybe it'll go the way of the Kyoto Accords where many nations signed it, but the United States didn't. The way we all rose up against SOPA and PIPA, I don't see us voting for this either - I hope.
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great job on reading the article



Several other industrialized countries, including the United States, Canada and South Korea, signed the agreement last year.
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Azhar said:
Maybe it'll go the way of the Kyoto Accords where many nations signed it, but the United States didn't. The way we all rose up against SOPA and PIPA, I don't see us voting for this either - I hope.
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The US very quietly signed this into law last year. That is one reason that the media companies were pushing so hard for SOPA/PIPA, because of ACTA certain parts of those bills would have been able to be used across international borders (of other ACTA nations, at least). It is also why certain works that were considered in the public domain in the US were recently reassigned copyright status.
 
Ashbringer said:
What's disturbing is how ACTA protects against pharmaceutical drugs. Really? People need this medicine and lawmakers are more concerned about people duplicating medicine, for usually much cheaper?
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Well yeah, it makes sense! The first pill costs several billion dollars to produce, then every pill after that costs a tiny amount (often a few cents up to a few dollars each.) Why would anyone research new medicines if people could copy the results of others? Do you think pharmaceutical companies have the kind of money necessary to subsidize that level of research so other people can profit from easy production once the solution/formula is found?
 
Tytalus said:
Well yeah, it makes sense! The first pill costs several billion dollars to produce, then every pill after that costs a tiny amount (often a few cents up to a few dollars each.) Why would anyone research new medicines if people could copy the results of others? Do you think pharmaceutical companies have the kind of money necessary to subsidize that level of research so other people can profit from easy production once the solution/formula is found?
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They have managed thus far.
 
1. Signing this treaty is not the end, but only the beggining as far as I see it. Without our parliament voting for it (2/3+ votes needed) it's still not law. As at least two (or possibly three) big parties are against it I doubt it will become law after all.

2. EU seems to be at least partially against ACTA. It might be that EU law will completely forbid parts of ACTA which PL will have to respect,

3. Polish peoples wanted to have a referendum about ACTA, but just today our prime minister said NO.

For me fight against piracy is good (I'm a software developer myself) but there's a line which law should not cross and ACTA crosses it so far that it's scary. Everything from the way this law was created to the way parliaments of various countries want to enforce it is totally wrong and against democracy.

About medicine.It's obvious R&D need to be retrievet so we can have progress and many years ago we had some good laws to allow patent things for ~20years and get the cash for their invention.
Currently patent system is ill - you can patent every obvious thing or things with prior-art.
What is even worse is that copyright protection goes totally over the hill when you have got copyrights for your work for lifetime of author plus 70 years. What? YES - THAT'S YOU USA! This is damn sick. Who is going to say me that the Author receives his cash when his work is copyrighted for 70years after he's dead? Funny thing is that ~50 years ago copyrights in USA were given for 28years. What made everyone believe that's not enought? Mickey mouse was going out of this period?

The whole patent/copyright system is shit and enforcing ACTA over it to get even more money is not the way to go.
 
Dwango said:
The US very quietly signed this into law last year. .
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It's not a law, just a treaty/agreement. The President (both Bush and Obama) supported it through executive orders, which may or may not be consitutional.
 
Yeah, I thought La Quadrature du Net's petition made a sensible argument, but it was sent way too late to be read by the EU govs, on the day they started meeting to vote on ACTA.

But singling out Poland is really unfair, it's the EU as a whole and most of its countries (22 out of 27) who signed ACTA. It still needs to be ratified this summer though, so keep bugging your EU reps.
 
RadCliffeX said:
great job on reading the article
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Be nice. I commented before reading. I also went further and read the Wikipedia article about the treaty and several other web sites. I also linked a petition on the other thread to repeal our signature. I think I've read enough.

It's a nasty piece of legislation and I cannot fathom why all of these signatory countries would sign it.
 
Again, it's not a legislation, it's a trade agreement, like the one DVD/BD player manufacturers have for regions.
 
Someone should make those silly Poles open the screen door in a submarine or sit in a corner of a round room. :D
 
Ashbringer said:
What's disturbing is how ACTA protects against pharmaceutical drugs. Really? People need this medicine and lawmakers are more concerned about people duplicating medicine, for usually much cheaper?
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So did SOPA/PIPA. Infact, some of their biggest supporters were big pharma. They claimed it was "dangerous" to get meds from online pharmacies. BS, they just wanted a law to make it so they can rape everyone and not just a select amount.

When the exact same generic costs $50/shipped for 90 days and the generic stateside costs $120 ($360 for 90 days) for 30 days. There's something fundamentally wrong with that.

I'm all for free-market theory, but the truth of the matter, that worked when companies where relatively small. These super-corporations care nothing about their workforce nor their consumers, they just want more money and they'll buy every competitor or politician that stands in there way.
 
Spidey329 said:
I'm all for free-market theory, but the truth of the matter, that worked when companies where relatively small. These super-corporations care nothing about their workforce nor their consumers, they just want more money and they'll buy every competitor or politician that stands in there way.
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Yeah, it sucks.

The market has become anything but free. What's the best term for it now? A hostage market maybe?
 
Spidey329 said:
So did SOPA/PIPA. Infact, some of their biggest supporters were big pharma. They claimed it was "dangerous" to get meds from online pharmacies. BS, they just wanted a law to make it so they can rape everyone and not just a select amount.

When the exact same generic costs $50/shipped for 90 days and the generic stateside costs $120 ($360 for 90 days) for 30 days. There's something fundamentally wrong with that.

I'm all for free-market theory, but the truth of the matter, that worked when companies where relatively small. These super-corporations care nothing about their workforce nor their consumers, they just want more money and they'll buy every competitor or politician that stands in there way.
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The creator of the original has to pay off research and development costs, the makers of generics have very little of those costs.
 
Poland hasn't seen this much outside influence from a foreign imperialist power since the 1940s.
 
Am I the only person here that finds ACTA impressive in its scope and range?

They're not just trying to stop intellectual property theft here. The counterfeit industry is huge, just look at those fake pairs of Beats Pros from China, designer handbags, even fake medication (btw which is extremely dangerous: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/world/americas/06poison.html?pagewanted=all), etc.

More importantly, some of the most powerful crime organizations in the world (i.e. the Mafia that has a monopoly in the port of Naples) use the same methods for the seemingly harmless counterfeit trade to transport illegal weapons, drugs, even people.

The scope of this law is amazing. If implemented correctly, this could be a huge blow on black markets and criminal organizations... And the fact that this is a trade agreement, not a law, makes it even better.
 
https://www.eff.org/issues/acta

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement#United_States

The US has signed this into law already, though it hasn't come into full effect as of yet. Bush supported the creation it under secrecy and Obama gladly signed it last year without any congressional approval (not that those morons would have actually read it, but...). Many Freedom of Information Requests to view the wording of the treaty have been wholly denied by the Obama administration. The actual wording of it is secret from the public.

I want to know why.
 
Dwango said:
The US very quietly signed this into law last year.
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Which is why Obama is the worst president in American history. He signs an international treaty without congressional approval. He wouldn't even allow people to see the treaty. How much more corrupt could he get? He's bought and paid for by the RIAA and the MPAA.
 
Well want do you know, MPAA and RIAA have figured out how blackmail every country into signing these stupid laws. Usually they lobby US diplomats who then use dirty tricks to scare other governments to bending over.

MPAA and RIAA sure remind me of that recent movie where all the world's strings are secretly pulled by an organisation of people wearing bowler hats and black suits. (I can't remember what it was called)
 
Tytalus said:
Well yeah, it makes sense! The first pill costs several billion dollars to produce, then every pill after that costs a tiny amount (often a few cents up to a few dollars each.) Why would anyone research new medicines if people could copy the results of others? Do you think pharmaceutical companies have the kind of money necessary to subsidize that level of research so other people can profit from easy production once the solution/formula is found?
Click to expand...

You would be surprised just how vague some of those drug patents are. In essence they name only part of the molecule with the elements whereas other active parts are left as variables. As soon as their patent runs out on the first active part of the drug they issue another where the variable is named.

It's actually kinda fucked up. Though so is the amount of money required to get a viable drug to late-stage trials. It borders on the obscene
 
Acta is forming a world wide cartel on copyright, as far as I see it, its not illegal, started with OPEC in 1973 etc, as much as I hate the fact.
 
fattypants said:
Poland hasn't seen this much outside influence from a foreign imperialist power since the 1940s.
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Guess again Poland was influence by a foreign imperialist power up untill 1989 when they booted the Ruskies out.
 
viralcow said:
. If implemented correctly, this could be a huge blow on black markets and criminal organizations...
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You can't eat that shit everyday man, it's effecting your judgement.

Do you really think a law or agreement of any kind is really ever going to be a 'huge blow' on black markets? Common sense will prevail eventually. Here is a dose of reality for you: The reason black markets exist is un-reasonable un-enforceable law based on greed. You won't stop the behavior, you will only make more criminals. Same with drug enforcement, imagine how much better society would be if we let druggies be morons and tax them, instead of making them into violent criminals and then spending billions of dollars we don't have on law enforcement and prisons to fight a losing battle.
 
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