Two-Thirds of U.S. Tech Firms Send Jobs Offshore

I read somewhere that for every dollar that enters an area its worth an average of five time that amount in recirculated value. Money is like a water reserve, send it elsewhere and you no longer get it's benefits.
 
I've done it. I sent a fairly large project ($5,000+) over to India because I couldn't find a US programming shop to do it for under $10k.
 
kcmastrpc said:
I've done it. I sent a fairly large project ($5,000+) over to India because I couldn't find a US programming shop to do it for under $10k.
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+1 My kinda boss has all of his programming down in india cuz its soooo much cheaper.. to bad they have been messing it up..
 
One of the defenses of outsourcing I've seen says that if your job can be outsourced, it's your own fault for not pursuing an education. Perhaps these people failed to realize that they have universities on that side of the world too.
 
I hate to get political here but.... its shit like this that makes me chuckle whenever says that if you "tax the rich" jobs will go away.

I'm sorry you can have zero corporate taxes, zero payroll taxes, zero expense at all to the US government and they'd still move jobs overseas because it would still be cheaper. And you can't blame any fucking unions on this either!
 
sfsuphysics said:
I hate to get political here but.... its shit like this that makes me chuckle whenever says that if you "tax the rich" jobs will go away.

I'm sorry you can have zero corporate taxes, zero payroll taxes, zero expense at all to the US government and they'd still move jobs overseas because it would still be cheaper. And you can't blame any fucking unions on this either!
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If they're already so stingy, what makes you think they won't become even more so if taxes are raised? They'll find something to cut to keep profits at the same level.

I don't think that either cutting taxes or raising taxes are appropriate if that's your whole plan. Cut taxes, and it will go right to profits. Raise taxes, and they'll cut something to get profits back.
 
this is just my experience at two healthcare companies. both offshored NEW projects for custom programming in india. it just makes sense having 3-4 consultants design something from scratch than have to pay almost 10x as much for 3-4 in america for a short term project.

its laws of economics in a global economy.

not one job was lost in my experience, just new jobs created. with the return on investment going to americans, primarily people in need of better healthcare... the small temporary programming jobs have a larger impact financially and socially with american customers.

IT IS MUCH different then jobs replacing works such as non-IT call centers going overseas. Then again, america is suppose to be top of the world inventors and quality workers. Should they be taking footlocker customer service calls, working in a sweatshop, or trying to find an upper/middle class service based job?

Again its 2011 and not 1911. I have seen nobody in my generation beg to have a 1$ an hour job as our grandparents did in the great depression or before the post-war boom. We are evolving as a country towards higher level skilled jobs, low-end skilled service jobs and specialized industries, resource gathering and equipment.

DON'T FORGET: for every job we outsource, they are also outsourcing to get our products, services and labor as well.
 
In time this will eventually change, I have noticed that people are starting to spread and share the overall negative feedback with outsourcing everything. Sadly my current Job is doing that with certain departments and we all know in 2 years they will be back to doing stuff in house as the quality and reliability will not be the same.
 
jroe52 said:
this is just my experience at two healthcare companies. both offshored NEW projects for custom programming in india. it just makes sense having 3-4 consultants design something from scratch than have to pay almost 10x as much for 3-4 in america for a short term project.

its laws of economics in a global economy.

not one job was lost in my experience, just new jobs created. with the return on investment going to americans, primarily people in need of better healthcare... the small temporary programming jobs have a larger impact financially and socially with american customers.

IT IS MUCH different then jobs replacing works such as non-IT call centers going overseas. Then again, america is suppose to be top of the world inventors and quality workers. Should they be taking footlocker customer service calls, working in a sweatshop, or trying to find an upper/middle class service based job?

Again its 2011 and not 1911. I have seen nobody in my generation beg to have a 1$ an hour job as our grandparents did in the great depression or before the post-war boom. We are evolving as a country towards higher level skilled jobs, low-end skilled service jobs and specialized industries, resource gathering and equipment.

DON'T FORGET: for every job we outsource, they are also outsourcing to get our products, services and labor as well.
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finally some real perspective on this issue. Thank you.
 
It will come around eventually. As we send more money to other countries those workers will begin to realize they are a valuable asset. They will gradually want to live the same life we do and their wages and regulations will gradually increase. Like wise our standards will eventually fall as our currency falls against the currency of other countries. Eventually THOSE countries will look to America and see an oppurtunity to increase profits on their side by outsourcing to us. And there will be so many people here in America eager for a job they will gladly do it for a cut rate pay.
 
jroe52 said:
Again its 2011 and not 1911. I have seen nobody in my generation beg to have a 1$ an hour job as our grandparents did in the great depression or before the post-war boom. We are evolving as a country towards higher level skilled jobs, low-end skilled service jobs and specialized industries, resource gathering and equipment.
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Sure we have computers and iphones, but whats the difference over the course of a hundred years? We still need things manufactured. Technology is just technology. What was advanced back then is relative to what we call advanced today.

I think its in error to think that we are somehow fundamentally different then the people of our past and that they wouldn't know what we are going through.

$1 and hour or $10 an hour. Its all the same. Value has inflated with our wages. We still live the same life, albiet the things we live with have changed. I mean we have running water and cars and all that but thats just the advancment of technology, it mearly replaced other technologies that those people had at the time.
 
Tax code is setup currently that even if you have two employees who earn the same hourly rate, it is far less expensive to pay an employee in India than it is in the United States.

Considering that the American employee is helping to reduce the unemployment rate and burden that places on society, is paying taxes back to the American government, and is generally spending more within the American economy, this is BASS ACKWARDS!!!

Combine this with the fact that a WiPro analyst considers himself well off making $10.5K a year with next to no medical benefits, and it is only miserable quality of service that is keeping India from taking over 100% of American IT needs, as you can't hire a highschool dropout on that low a salary.
 
westrock2000 said:
It will come around eventually. As we send more money to other countries those workers will begin to realize they are a valuable asset. They will gradually want to live the same life we do and their wages and regulations will gradually increase. Like wise our standards will eventually fall as our currency falls against the currency of other countries. Eventually THOSE countries will look to America and see an oppurtunity to increase profits on their side by outsourcing to us. And there will be so many people here in America eager for a job they will gladly do it for a cut rate pay.
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So basically what you're saying is that the "light at the end of the tunnel" is that the United States will solve this problem by equalizing economically with impoverished developing countries.

GREAT! Thanks, but I would prefer another fiscal strategy that keeps the United States on top rather than just massively devalued currency and a steadily poorer middle and lower class.
 
Soon the people at the top wont have many people to sell expensive products/services to, because they'll all be out of work
 
has anyone taken an international economics course? there's major benefits to offshoring, outsourcing, and some problems, but as these jobs become a commodity we just have to innovate to find something else to export. Besides, as other nations gain income they can buy our goods.
 
kcmastrpc said:
I've done it. I sent a fairly large project ($5,000+) over to India because I couldn't find a US programming shop to do it for under $10k.
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I get paid $6,000.00 a year developing interactive multimedia websites (Static sites go to a different guy) from scratch. Is that normal? Or can i ask for a raise?
 
Indians definitely shouldn't be eating. We need to prevent our exposure to their resource development, so that Americans can lease a new SUV every two years.
 
Aus10 said:
+1 My kinda boss has all of his programming down in india cuz its soooo much cheaper.. to bad they have been messing it up..
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You get what you pay for right? Al least people can know what's going on here in the US.
Wouldn't surprise me those countries are copying all of the tech/data the people send over there, keep it for there own use.
 
Here's a thought for all of you saying outsourcing is a fiscal boon and that we should cater to higher end jobs. That's great and all and a beautiful vision. Here's the problem. No matter how good the service, no matter how cheap it's made in India/China, no matter how wonderful the programming is, if I don't have a damn job or income coming in to have enough money to buy your damn product.. it's worthless to both of us. Ensuring a labor base that has a low wage is counterproductive for improved business. Sure, you can have all your factories in China with workers making your product for 20 dollars a month. And you do that to reduce costs. Now, you just laid off that same number of workers in the US (the place that's buying your crap). So you're expecting broke people to make things for broke people, so now you have to drop prices.. AKA Walmart. For the person talking about health care jobs and using cheaper labor overseas, that's great.. when are the medical costs coming down that are associated with that? Oh wait.. never. If anything, service industries should be fighting tooth and nail against decreasing wages and moving things overseas because it slowly kills their customer base and causes problems. Hospitals, for example. Less people are going because the cost of the service is so damn high so preventative care is being avoided. Then, when they do get cancer, diabetes or heart disease or whatever, they finally go there and the hospital has to charge it off as a loss or watch paltry payments come in. Get enough of those and you have to start shutting things down or laying people off. And we start the process all over again...
 
The country is sinking. Our dollar being devalued by constant bailouts and stimulants that don't work. Constant borrowing is destroying the value of the dollar. The economy is a sinking ship. Wouldn't be surprised if the economy crashed next year. China and India are taking all our jobs. Everything that can be outsourced is being outsourced. There's no end in sight so pretty much prepare for a crash. Its inevitable.
 
Aus10 said:
+1 My kinda boss has all of his programming down in india cuz its soooo much cheaper.. to bad they have been messing it up..
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Is it really cheaper then? If the code is messed up and has to be fixed... Well that has to be accounted for in the cost equation.

Most of the people I've talked to have not been overly impressed with Indian outsourcing. The things I hear often:

1) They are great at the "Low bid and then extra costs," thing since they know you really can't sue them, and you won't get your code otherwise. An outstanding deal can turn in to a mediocre one in a hurry.

2) They aren't good at high level coding. They'll be happy to take on a project with only a basic high level set of guidelines, but you'll get nothing but a mess in return that you'll have to hire US developers to fix. If you want something done it has to be low level, well defined, coding.

When I hear things like "It is so much cheaper, but messed up," that doesn't speak to me of someone doing a proper cost/benefit analysis.
 
Conker said:
The country is sinking. Our dollar being devalued by constant bailouts and stimulants that don't work. Constant borrowing is destroying the value of the dollar. The economy is a sinking ship. Wouldn't be surprised if the economy crashed next year. China and India are taking all our jobs. Everything that can be outsourced is being outsourced. There's no end in sight so pretty much prepare for a crash. Its inevitable.
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It's the reason I am so down on credit cards and borrowing in personal finances.....we have allowed credit and excess to dominate our lives. How many people do you think could live without their credit cards? Now, having answered that, you do realize those some people are running the finances of the large corporations right? Running on borrowed money......money that isn't real. If all the world debts were called in because of some cataclysmic event on a global scale, we would be fucked. There's not enough real money to absorb the debt.

Thats a huge problem that isn't going away. That's why I dont use credit cards.
 
As an IT professional I find this disgusting.

Those who support NAFTA and exporting good jobs
to further profits are also disgusting people.

All they care about is the bottom line.
 
kcmastrpc said:
I've done it. I sent a fairly large project ($5,000+) over to India because I couldn't find a US programming shop to do it for under $10k.
Click to expand...

If one looks around, they can find good consulting and prices.
You didnt look hard enough.

You get what you pay for then, dont complain if the project does
not come out right in the end.
 
so the real problem is not outsourcing, the outsourcing is a necessity because of greed, India is simply capitalizing on our need to have everything in excess but cheap
 
Conker said:
The country is sinking. Our dollar being devalued by constant bailouts and stimulants that don't work. Constant borrowing is destroying the value of the dollar. The economy is a sinking ship. Wouldn't be surprised if the economy crashed next year. China and India are taking all our jobs. Everything that can be outsourced is being outsourced. There's no end in sight so pretty much prepare for a crash. Its inevitable.
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THis is pretty much the main reason why I want to grow my car fund in my mattress and not some bank. I can smell that STi, but I'll be damn if I go without food.
 
I guess we can stop blaming illegal immigrants for stealing our jobs now. Our bosses are just giving them away!
 
nobody_here said:
It's the reason I am so down on credit cards and borrowing in personal finances.....we have allowed credit and excess to dominate our lives. How many people do you think could live without their credit cards? Now, having answered that, you do realize those some people are running the finances of the large corporations right? Running on borrowed money......money that isn't real. If all the world debts were called in because of some cataclysmic event on a global scale, we would be fucked. There's not enough real money to absorb the debt.

Thats a huge problem that isn't going away. That's why I dont use credit cards.
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You do realize you can use them without carrying a balance, right?
 
The reason there's more debt than money is that money only really enters the economy after it's been repaid to a bank or gov't, and only the INTEREST repaid enters the economy as "new" money.

It's quite horrifying if you think about it. Also makes you wonder why you'd ever choose to work outside banking, if you understood this fact earlier on in life.
 
Conker said:
The country is sinking. Our dollar being devalued by constant bailouts and stimulants that don't work. Constant borrowing is destroying the value of the dollar. The economy is a sinking ship. Wouldn't be surprised if the economy crashed next year. China and India are taking all our jobs. Everything that can be outsourced is being outsourced. There's no end in sight so pretty much prepare for a crash. Its inevitable.
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And then what? What happens when the economy crashes? Seems like no one has any money anyway... So who will be affected by this? The rich? All I've got is a job that allows me to live paycheck-to-paycheck. If I lost that I would probably move back home to the family farm and live off the land.

I look forward to the inevitable crash....finally some excitement! Should make all our lives interesting.
 
sfsuphysics said:
I hate to get political here but.... its shit like this that makes me chuckle whenever says that if you "tax the rich" jobs will go away.

I'm sorry you can have zero corporate taxes, zero payroll taxes, zero expense at all to the US government and they'd still move jobs overseas because it would still be cheaper. And you can't blame any fucking unions on this either!
Click to expand...

Absolutely right, mate. Once upon a time, if a politician acted against the interests of his own countrymen, he could be charged with treason. Nowadays, we call such politicians 'realistic' or 'Republicans/Conservatives'. Trouble is, the original 'conservative' position was to allow as little change as possible, not open the goddam borders to cheap Asian goods while we watch all the manufacturing jobs flow overseas.

F~ck it. I'd rather pay $75 for a domestically-made toaster and see my neighbours working, happy and paying taxes then get the opportunity to buy a shitty $15 chinese-made toaster at Wallmart, while all my neighbours lose their jobs and become alcholic drug addicts because they have no hope and nothing to lose. WTF is wrong with the US/Canada/UK? The Germans and the Japanese never stopped fighting world war II, they just focussed on economic warfare. Those countries have the right attitude - they see their neighbours as fellow citizens, not as opponents or competitors for jobs.

We need to pull up on the flight stick and get our manufacturing back before it's too late.
 
anubis44 said:
F~ck it. I'd rather pay $75 for a domestically-made toaster and see my neighbours working, happy and paying taxes then get the opportunity to buy a shitty $15 chinese-made toaster at Wallmart, while all my neighbours lose their jobs and become alcholic drug addicts because they have no hope and nothing to lose.
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For every person like you, there's one million who would rather have the $15 toaster from Walmart.
 
Monkey God said:
For every person like you, there's one million who would rather have the $15 toaster from Walmart.
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Yes, and this is the problem.

I recently had a discussion with my wife. We were thinking of buying a blu-ray player locally discounted down to $110 (taxes).

We found it online for $89. She said "Look! IT's cheaper online!"

I told her for the 20% more we pay locally that puts tax rev & jobs into our local economy....

Now if it's $100 online and $500 locally.......well the local stores need to learn to compete.
 
kcmastrpc said:
I've done it. I sent a fairly large project ($5,000+) over to India because I couldn't find a US programming shop to do it for under $10k.
Click to expand...

Get what you pay for, as our Indian development team have proved continuously, and still roll out something that's broken. not to mention it takes a team of twelve over there to do what three guys can do here (that's what they replaced), but with the added feature of making a crap product version.
 
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