Which gaming mouse is most suitable to me?

RPGWiZaRD

RPGWiZaRD

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
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I've used a MX-518 now for probably 4 years or so and it will probably sooner or later fail so need to start thinking of what mouse to go next. I know MX-518 has quite a bit predicition but I've learnt to cope with it but from quick testing with a IE 3.0 which I also bought felt more accurate somehow probably because of the lack of acceleration but otherwise this mouse wasn't for me. Here's the following what I prefer:

- I prefer cloth pads so I need some mice that has feet that works on smooth cloth pads. From my experience smaller feet works great, the older MX-518 with the small mouse feet has IMO the PERFECT glide/friction amount on my Everglide Titan Monstermat & Razer Mantis Speed (literally same pads, Razer paid licensing fees to Everglide).

- I prefer lighter mice, <100g if possible.

- I prefer smaller mice despite my hands are not very small, think IE 1.1

- I prefer a stable "thumb-grip", don't want any buttons to come in the way for the thumb. I'm sorta something between claw/palm grip on my MX-518 with not the whole palm resting on the mouse but at the back of my palm and my fingers are resting on it.

- Don't need a lot of fancy buttons, 2 sidebuttons and a DPI switch may come handy but not totally a requirement if there's options without that which fill my other requirements better.

So which one you think it's the right one for me, I've looked at mice such as Zowie EC2, SteelSeries XAI & Kinzu, Roccat Kone+. Kinzu I've read has a crappy sensor and also the mouse feet has poor glide compared to XAI, Zowie EC2 looks pretty much perfect to me if it wasn't for the BIIIGGG mouse feet that doesn't seem to work very well on cloth pads and Kone+ fails weight/size wise for me but otherwise looks like a sweet option with lots of configurability, that leaves me to XAI, <100g, ambidextrous shape which reminds a bit of IE 1.1 which I know I'd like except for the sidebuttons interfering with the thumb grip (my parents got a cheap 1.1 copy of some random brand that don't have the sidebuttons and I love the size/weight/form of it but the sensor of this 5 EUR mouse is ofc beyond usable for gaming). XAI would be the best for me then?
 
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acceleration ? what do you mean ? old mx518s are known to have perfect 1:1 response at 400 and 800dpi no matter the way you handle them.

Zowie ec2 feet are huge but they're not that slick as you think, old ms mice with 0.8mm teflon feet glide considerably faster on my zowie G-TF, but these feet produce some scraping when new, EC2 feet do not scrap the pad at all, there are faster ones if you want, but they're only available in japan atm.
 
SoFGR said:
acceleration ? what do you mean ? old mx518s are known to have perfect 1:1 response at 400 and 800dpi no matter the way you handle them.

Zowie ec2 feet are huge but they're not that slick as you think, old ms mice with 0.8mm teflon feet glide considerably faster on my zowie G-TF, but these feet produce some scraping when new, EC2 feet do not scrap the pad at all, there are faster ones if you want, but they're only available in japan atm.
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Sorry I meant prediction not acceleration, ie that tiny bit "correction" so the lines get more "even" if moving sideways or up/downwards.

I also tried the G-TF Zowie pad but didn't like it since it was TOO slippery for me (had pretty much the same feeling as a hard pad) and seemed to be so with any kind of mousefeet and didn't like how the surface felt like sandpaper so I prefer my old silky smooth Mantis Speed and Everglide Titan Monstermat.

Also I never said EC2 mousefeet would be slick, if I knew it was that I'd buy one in an instant, most people seem to think bigger feet provides better glide but in my experience it's the opposite at least when it comes to smooth cloth surfaces, with textured surfaces it's another matter though. I really like the shape of EC2 but the big mousefeet kills it for me with these cloth pads.
 
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Prediction is overrated and really minimal in this case, check the EC thread.

g-tf surface gets a bit smoother, less grainy to the touch and softer with time, so keep using it :D

If you want slick feet and can't wait for the official ones to hit EU market ( http://www.zowiegear.com/products?p...ypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=24&category_id=5 )
buy some from corepad.com instead, they should do the trick

Keep in mind that ec2 can be a bit jittery at 1000/2000dpi, atleast on my TF
 
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I really don't want to use the G-TF pad it's faaaaar too slippery for me and my aim suffers and Mantis and Monstermat feels so soft and comfortable to rest the wrist on. Also I'm not sure buying those feet would solve the friction problem of the original ones as they are still among the biggest skatez that exists and bigger feet means bigger contact surface and when the mousepad is also very smooth it'll mean a big portion of the skatez and pad will touch so even if the material is optimal it wouldn't necessarily bring the low friction of smaller feet.

SteelSeries Xai looks quite fitting too, at low weight, relatively small size and smaller mouse skatez.

And I'm a low-sens gamer and prefer 400 DPI.
 
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I'm a low-sens gamer and I haven't found anything that makes me want to replace my 1.1a yet. Tried a Xai, but I didn't like the way it felt.
 
Zero82z said:
If you like the MX518, you'll probably like the G500.
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No, I don't like the new mice feet, the glide is worse. I bought another MX-518 once and got ofc the updated one with bigger mouse feet that they started using with G5 and also G500 ofc and the glide is a bit worse compared to the old MX-518 version with smaller feet.

Cabbs said:
I'm a low-sens gamer and I haven't found anything that makes me want to replace my 1.1a yet. Tried a Xai, but I didn't like the way it felt.
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I would probably love the 1.1a too if it wasn't for the big sidebutton that takes up almost the entire space, can't grip the side if buttons are in the way. I mostly grip the mouse on the sides with my thumb on left side and two fingers on the other side and gently rest the other fingers on the buttons.
 
RPGWiZaRD said:
I would probably love the 1.1a too if it wasn't for the big sidebutton that takes up almost the entire space, can't grip the side if buttons are in the way. I mostly grip the mouse on the sides with my thumb on left side and two fingers on the other side and gently rest the other fingers on the buttons.
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Ah, I see what you mean. I guess I'm used to it, I just grip the space underneath the buttons. I have skinny fingers so it's not a problem for me.
 
low sens players experience positive accel during flicks with g500 / xai or any other avago 9500 mouse for that matter, 1.1 has a 1.5m/s perfect control limit so it's not flawless either, i tried ec2 on a titan monstermat that i have around ( keep in mind titan is rough when brand new too ) and the glide wasn't that bad, much better feel than mx518 1800dpi which i hated with a passion because of the huge feet and extra weight compared to old 518, logitech had one 100% reliable mouse for hardcore gaming and they ruined it :S

The whole thing felt a bit slow ( cmon, titan is slow no matter what use for mouse feet ) but still VERY smooth and controllable at the same time, it helped me have a pretty good and consistent aim with hitscan weapons ( shock rifle lighting gun etc ) especially at medium-long range

I think you actually need this type of feel if you use a whole titan in order to do a 360 turn.

As for the 1.1, i grip it the same way as cabbs, and my fingers are actually kinda chubby but i never understood how could someone accidentally press its side buttons.
 
OK maybe the sidebuttons aren't THAT big on the 1.1, I haven't tried it yet so can't say but it looks like the space beneath the buttons is rather small. I appriciate your feedback, I also hated the 1800 DPI MX-518 for the same reasons. I also hated first gen DeathAdder with a passion, used it for maybe an hour or two and never again cuz of the sidebuttons and the odd shape which was too bulky for me and there was too much of a bump at top.

So which do you think has a more similar glide on the Monstermat to the old MX-518 with small feet, MS IE 1.1 or Zowie EC2? I know I can buy Zowie Speedy Skatez for both those mice which I would probably buy at the same time just in case. I may have to buy both to find out.

I don't concider Monstermat slow with the old MX-518 (it's just PERFECT not too much, not too little, I concider smooth alu/plastic etc pads too slippery) but it's so far the only mouse I've tried on it that has this low amount of friction on it. Or actually DeathAdder has very nice glide on it too. MS IE 3.0 was the most HORRIBLE, felt like there was glue on the mouse skatez, had to use lots of force to get it moved so the movement became anything but smooth lol. Don't tell me 1.1 use same material that 3.0? What skatez material is it they use and what is used on DeathAdder, I'd just like to know which material is the one that works great on these pads as obviously IE 3.0's is horrible while DeathAdder's is optimal.

One thing I love about these Everglide Titan Monstermat and Razer Mantis Speed, they are so unbelievably durable, I keep switching between them and then when they get dirty I put them in the washing machine and they get good as new! :p Had them for probably at least 4 years now and they show no signs of wear & tear and I have like 3000hrs+ of gaming on both of them. Tried a bunch of others but always went back.
 
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Your best bet for MS mire are 8 pieces of steelseries padsurfers ( or even better, 2 sets of hyperglides MS-1, good luck finding them :p ) trust me on this, 0.8mm teflon feet produce a bit of scraping especially when brand new.

I don't have an old mx518 anymore, but i have a mx510 handy from ebay, its weight is removed and i have replaced stock feet with hyperglide mx-1, i also have two zowie 1.1, my favorite is the champagne one, very good grip, stay away from zowie black and the regular ones, their feet are 0.8mm preinstalled, both sets are broken in so i feel minimal scraping.

mx510 and 1.1 glide in a very similar way but 510 still feels heavier, ec2 is even heavier ( around 104g ) and glides even slower but in a very smooth and nice way, if you play at 45cm/360 ec2 is ideal, i would never recommend a 1.1 to a low sens player, you will experience negative accel no matter the polling rate, i personally play at ~ 30cm/360 and use the whole g-tf only in slower paced games like BC2 CS etc so 1.1 doesn't give me much trouble.

MS 3.0 with 8 padsurfers feels pretty smooth on titan and just perfect (for my taste) on G-TF, it's a shame really, it features rubber sides minimal correction low LOD but its shape is way too big compared to 1.1, not ideal for fast paced shooters imo.

Btw would you mind posting a guide somewhere about installing kx drivers on audigy and configuring that 3d sound thingie for headphones ? I know a guy who wants to improve his situational awareness in bc2 and l4d2 but he can't be arsed to spend 80 euros ( yes x-fi's are still expensive in greece ) to replace his audigy.
 
I'd be able to buy a Zowie IO1.1ZG Champagne version here in Finland for 60 EUR, pretty much twice the cost of a MS IE 1.1, is it really worth twice the cost and does this particular Zowie mouse need the mouse skatez changed or are the included ones good enough already?

I'm not THAT low-sens gamer, more like casual low-sens gamer at 24 ~ 28cm/360 depending on game. I'm mostly UT-like fast paced FPS fan.

I can PM you the instructions for kX drivers that I sent to some1 by email quite recently.
 
Yes 60 euros is kinda steep, but the paint is 100% worth it honestly, feet are pretty good too, change them only if you find the scraping annoying even after 2-3 days of usage, and plz send that PM, it would be so nice of you, thanks in advance :)
 
I suppose it doesn't matter which color of the IO1.1ZG I pick, I really like the black colored and would suit a lot better with rest of my gear really. :p You said stay away from black but you didn't probably mean IO1.1ZG model then right? AFAIK there's black, blue and champagne colored versions of them and they are all the same with only different color and based on 1.1 SE version with a special coating.
 
nonono, stay away from zowie 1.1 black ! i have both 1.1 zowie black and 1.1 zowie champagne, champagne and blue versions have different paintjobs with more clear lacquer so their grip is better, black can get really slippery ! I agree it looks goo tho, but champagne looks just as good in person too, don't worry :)
 
Ahh ic, well next weekend I will be visiting my parents and will try to upload some HQ pics of the mouse my parents got, on the outside it looks very much like an IE 1.1 except it doesn't have any sidebuttons and I really like everything about it, the shape, size, weight and coating etc but since it's a random brand 5 EUR mouse its tracking sensor is ofc absolutely horrible for gaming but I love it otherwise, even the mousefeet have perfect glide which looks like the IE 1.1 feet except they are white like the Zowie Speedy skatez for IE1.1 and they work possibly even better than my old MX518 on cloth pads (works magnificient on the old QcK pad I left there for my parents).

I would like to get the mouse that resembles this one as much as possible as I know I would like this one if it wasn't for the crappy sensor. Even if it can't keep up with very fast movements etc the times I tried it for UT3 for example I was suprised how well I was hitscanning with it just because size/shape/weight/glide just felt perfect. That's when I realized I like a bit smaller/lighter mice, MX-518 is a bit too big and the shape isn't optimal either (I'd prefer shorter and slightly wider) and and just slightly too heavy for me than optimal but it's served me well.
 
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Alright here's some pics of the cheap mouse my parents got which looks much like an IE 1.1 copy shape-wise. The dimensions of it seems to be length:120 mm, width: 55 - 64 mm, height: 35 mm which feels perfect to me.





However as you see in one of the pics I'm quite worried about the thumb button on IO1.1, like you see the thumb almost takes up whole side of the mouse (yea I have a big thumb, width is like 23 - 25mm :p)... I think the thumb buttons might really get an issue for me on Zowie IO1.1. Also it looks like this one is the same as the IO1.1ZG black version which appears to have glossy surface on top and the champagne version I suppose has the same surface all over like on the sides which is a bit more rough. Steelseries XAI might be a safer bet after all...
 
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I recently acquired an EC2 and I like it very much. You mention concern about the glide on a cloth pad. I'm using it on a Puretrak Talent and it glides very well, certainly better than my Xai did before it. The Xai feels sticky on the Talent while my G9x and this EC2 feel incredibly smooth and fast by comparison.

My only real complaint about this mouse is the glossy sides. Stupid design decision. The Xai is the only mouse I've used that got this right by putting the rubberized coating on the sides. It's not the end of the world and if push came to shove I could probably buy those Steelseries Grips to put on here or do some other ghetto mod, but it's something to be aware of: glossy sides suck.

The sensor has prediction. This pisses a lot of people off, but really, I don't find it to be that noticeable as long as I'm not drawing straight lines in MS Paint. What really sells me on it is the feet and the shape, size and balance of the mouse. The shape is that of the Deathadder (if you've ever used it). However, I found the DA to be way too big and gripping it with anything other than a palm style is just not comfortable. I love the smaller size of the EC2.

I have some concerns down the road about the durability of the buttons and the wheel. I have seen a lot of people complaining about double clicking issues with the primary buttons and the wheel not registering at all (though I think the wheel issue is associated with a manufacturing defect in the earlier batches of the mice). I am going to keep my eyes open for the double clicking thing though and just hope it doesn't happens, as RMA service with a smaller company like Zowie could be a nightmare.

EDIT: Another thing I should mention that the EC2 has over many other recent gaming mice: the cord. Zowie was not retarded like Logitech and Steelseries and they stuck with a very thin, very lightweight rubber cord instead of the stupid fabric woven cord on so many other mice. It never interferes with the mouse's movement while I still feel it all the time on my Xai, particularly on larger cloth pads where the fabric cord comes into direct contact with the pad itself.
 
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Thanks for the reply, sounds like I really have to concider EC2. I really like the shape and size of it, the only thing that really worries me is the mouse skatez if the friction is the low-amount I want on a smooth cloth pad, very few mice have a somewhat fast glide on a smooth cloth pad (I'm not looking for such fast glide as on plastic/alu or textured cloth pads such as Zowie GT-F though but fairly close so there is only some very light friction and the movement feels smooth, just the way MX-518 1600 dpi works like on Mantis Speed or Everglide Titan) and many tend to get the "sticky" feeling like you said about XAI which is a shame.
 
RPGWiZaRD said:
Thanks for the reply, sounds like I really have to concider EC2. I really like the shape and size of it, the only thing that really worries me is the mouse skatez if the friction is the low-amount I want on a smooth cloth pad, very few mice have a somewhat fast glide on a smooth cloth pad (I'm not looking for such fast glide as on plastic/alu or textured cloth pads such as Zowie GT-F though but fairly close so there is only some very light friction and the movement feels smooth, just the way MX-518 1600 dpi works like on Mantis Speed or Everglide Titan) and many tend to get the "sticky" feeling like you said about XAI which is a shame.
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It's always possible to employ a ghetto solution to bad mouse feet as well. I had an old set of hyperglides for a Razer Copperhead just laying around here and I stuck those on the bottom of the Xai, directly over its feet, and it helped a lot with its bad glide on here. It's not the most aesthetically pleasing solution, but it works.

However, I really like the feet on this EC2 on my Talent, and the Talent is about as smooth a cloth surface as you can get.
 
answer is simple:


anything i don't have to pay for.

you're gonna have to try them out man. mice aren't really "recommendation type" devices, IMHO
 
I think I've found the exact model this cheap 5 EUR mouse my parents got bases its design on. ^^ ( compare to the above posted pics here )

144420-microsoft-comfort-optical-mouse-1000-8563.jpg
microsoft-comfort-optical-mouse-1000.jpg
2610509607.jpg
2610509605.jpg


Any1 know if the sensor is anywhere usable at all for gaming. It's not very expensive around 20 EUR so wouldn't hurt trying perhaps. It's Microsoft Comfort Optical Mouse 1000. It's a shame it doesn't have any sidebuttons but I simply love this shape, feels like perfect for my hand, the curve of the mouse, the peak of the top is just tiny bit positioned towards the back so the backside is a bit rounder and the front a bit more flat which is suitable for my kind of grip.

EDIT: The sensor seems a lot more adequate then I had thought:


Microsoft-proprietary optical technology
Imaging Rate
Dynamically adaptable to 6000 frames per second
X-Y Resolution
500 points per inch (19.7 points per millimeter)
Tracking Speed
Up to 40 inches (1016 millimeters) per second
 
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It's too heavy and not exactly a fan of it's design. Shape and weight-wise, MS/Zowie IE 1.1, EC2, Steelseries XAI and this MS Comfort 1000 is more in-lines what I'm looking for, a bit smaller and lighter mice that are relatively short with a bit rounder shape (ie. the opposite of the IE 3.0 flat/long shape). I know I'd like the shape of all the previous mentioned ones but I'm unsure which will provide the most similar glide as I currently get with my MX-518 1600 DPI using the standard small "plastic" feet on Razer Mantis Speed or Everglide Titan Monstermat. The right amount friction/glide is what I'm most picky about, has to be very low friction, but not quite what plastic or alu surfaces provide nor the fastest and textured cloth surfaces around such as Zowie GT-F which basicly had the same kind of glide as plastic ones to me which is too slippery to me, it should be close, but not quite that slippery, I need to feel a veeeerry very tiny bit friction so I don't get the feeling I'm "skating on ice". :p
 
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RPGWiZaRD said:
It's too heavy and not exactly a fan of it's design. Shape and weight-wise, MS/Zowie IE 1.1, EC2, Steelseries XAI and this MS Comfort 1000 is more in-lines what I'm looking for, a bit smaller and lighter mice that are relatively short with a bit rounder shape (ie. the opposite of the IE 3.0 flat/long shape). I know I'd like the shape of all the previous mentioned ones but I'm unsure which will provide the most similar glide as I currently get with my MX-518 1600 DPI using the standard small "plastic" feet on Razer Mantis Speed or Everglide Titan Monstermat. The right amount friction/glide is what I'm most picky about, has to be very low friction, but not quite what plastic or alu surfaces provide nor the fastest and textured cloth surfaces around such as Zowie GT-F which basicly had the same kind of glide as plastic ones to me which is too slippery to me, it should be close, but not quite that slippery, I need to feel a veeeerry very tiny bit friction so I don't get the feeling I'm "skating on ice". :p
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Stock Intellimouse feet are trash. Both my IME and 1.1 came with terrible feet. I run Corepadz on my 1.1 on a Puretrak Talent and it's definitely slicker than a Mantis Speed, but that's probably mostly due to the Corepadz feet.
 
cheapo said:
razers are good. deathadder is on sale for 39.99 at fryz
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I used DeathAdder for maybe 2 hrs or so and never used it again, way too big for me as I don't prefer a fully palm resting grip which is the only kind which makes sense on DeathAdder as otherwise I had problems with clicking (clicked by accident or doubleclicked when I didn't mean to etc) cuz I couldn't reach over the top of it very well if I didn't let whole palm rest over it and then I hated how the sidebuttons took the space of the whole side so no place for the thumb to rest on. I liked the glide though and would probably feel quite nice if had been a little less bulky and Respawn version seems to have smaller sidebuttons so they don't cover the whole side.
 
Love the Xai, I've had it on my gaming PC for a year and it is hands down my favorite mouse ever. I also have a Razer Deathadder on my Mac, mainly because Razer has really good OS X drivers. If I had my way though, I'd have a Xai on that as well since I prefer its shape to that of the Deathadder. Unfortunately Razer's drivers are just too good to keep me from going 100% Xai at the moment.

Since I'm assuming that isn't a problem for you, Xai all the way.
 
To OP, look at Giga-byte m8000x. (Nukem mentioned it as well) Based on what you say you like, I think you will like it the best.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Mouse-_-GIGABYTE-_-26146014
Look at my sig for mice I know about.

Steelseries is cheap crap. I think the Xai is cheap flaming crap. Roccat Kone is a waste of money IMO with some serious design oversights. The Kone+ is a much better mouse, one of my favored ones, but for you I would say no because its on the large side. The m8000x has a nice grip, very much like a logitech mx revolution (smaller grip), but very light and slick. I have one, and two of my buddies purchased them as well after trying mine. They love em (one I might add purchased it to replace his Xai that he didn't like). FWIW, I think the Speedlink and Giga-byte are made in the same factory and are very similar in many ways, but the Giga-byte is the better value IMO. Although, the Speedlink has one of the best grips I have used... it just feels right. Then again, I have large hands and I dont think its worth the price. The software with the m8000x owns just about everything out there.

Check out Hardware Canucks for a review of the m8000x.
 
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I'd say go for zowie 1.1 champagne or blue, i really like the ec2 but the 1.1 just feels lighter faster and more accurate, maybe i'll reconsider when i get my hands on the g-tf speed version http://www.zowiegear.com/component/content/article/169 I really can't figure how it can be even faster than regular g-tf but there are other reasons for get it as well, regular g-tf has crappy rubber base and because of it it can't stay completely flat, especially when it's brand new ! plus 32cm height instead of 38 is more suitable for my desk.
 
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So you don't think the space for the thumb to rest on would be a little small for me? The mouse I posted pics of above should only be a few millimeters shorter, 34~35mm vs 38mm I think. http://img808.imageshack.us/i/img0515se.jpg/

I would have went for the io1.1 champagne if I was sure but it certainly doesn't look like there's much space for it.
 
Dann123 said:
theres a razer mouse thats super compact, i forgot the name though, oroichi or something i think.
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All of Razer's mice are pretty damn small, lol. But the one you are thinking of is probably the Orochi; it's designed primarily for laptops and whatnot as its wireless and uses bluetooth.

I have pretty small hands and I personally love the feel of the Logitech G9x. I'm not a huge fan of Logitech as a whole, but most of their "gaming" mice have been excellent. It comes with adjustable grips and weights, so if you find it to be too small/large or light/heavy you can always adjust it. You did mention that you prefer a more rounded shape, though, so maybe the G9x isn't to your liking.
 
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