Legendary Game Studio Bioware Shuts Down

Herein lies the problem. Patterns only visible to the people who believe it is all, or mostly, to be blamed on identity politics.
Most people have little to no idea how the industry works, thus blaming what they can see with their own eyes. The woke stuff is what's most visible, and the perception that things are worse because of it isn't wrong, but it does end up being a catch all for more than it probably should be.
I see patterns but, personally, I see it more as rooted in money and bad executive decision making.
Ultimately, it does come down to money and mismanagement, but not the way people generally understand it. It is greed, but its born out of two things.

1.) is the desire to market to an audience which doesn't exist to make more money.
Companies wrongly believe that the vocal minority somehow represented their customer base or at least, an untapped market. They don't often realize that the target market they are shooting for isn't really their audience and never were. The other thing is, the "modern audience", small as it may be represents a niche of people that are diametrically opposed to their core customer base. Making something for the smaller group alienates the core group. This is effectively why this stuff fails the vast majority of the time.

It's a bit like building cars for people who can't drive in a way that ruins them for people who can.

2.) Stakeholder capitalism. Effectively, the people behind the financing (companies like Black Rock) who championed things like ESG scores provide funding with strings attached. A company that doesn't want to take on all the financial risks themselves, makes things easier on themselves by accepting third party financing and the conditions that go with it. Unfortunately, companies like Black Rock pushed more and more of this nonsense, even re-engineering the hiring practices of these companies as a result. Basically, when you look into the ownership of these companies (like Disney, EA, Ubisoft etc.), there Black Rock is. It has seats on the boards, etc.

It's CEO, a few years back literally said in a video interview (2018 I believe) that it was up to them to engineer behaviors in people to change the world because it thinks it knows better. Granted, I'm paraphrasing but you should get the point. At the time, Black Rock and its ilk had the money to burn. today, the CEO admits this was a mistake and its pulled away from a lot of this stuff though I don't think its completely gone from their playbooks. In effect, companies can't generally afford this thinking anymore.

But you are absolutely right. It is mismanagement on multiple levels. It's also greed. Greed towards chasing more customers, greed in that the companies want outside funding and investors to help lighten the burden, and therefore risk in creating games which is always a gamble. It's being out of touch with the market, its being out of touch with reality and forgetting who their customers are. These companies work really hard towards chasing new customers to the point where they lose their old ones. This doesn't work when you are chasing a small percentage of the population and excluding a larger one that used to be your customer base.
Bioware, as noted in this thread, had problems going back long before any of this sort of stuff was on the radar but people seem to dismiss all that stuff and either blame it all on woke, or claim woke prevented it from being saved. The gaming industry, as a whole, has systemic problems right now that spans all sorts of games, whether they're "infected by woke" or not and whenever this topic comes up all that gets ignored in favour of slamming identity politics.

Either way, we all swing towards our biases whether we think we do or not. I tend to blame money managers as causing many problems because I see it all the time in my industry. Other people have biases against other topics and will swing their blame in that direction, including people who blame woke for everything.
The shift is absolutely tied to identity politics. It's intertwined with the mismanagement, financing and development sides of the industry. Again, I'm not saying you can't have a shit game without the identity politics. We know this isn't true historically. Another way we can tell this is the case is by looking at the Eastern studios. They aren't turning out garbage like this. They are creating good looking, entertaining games that give customers what they want in half the time and around one third to half the cost. They are also doing it at a higher level of quality. So it's not the entire industry that's like this. It's the industry in Western countries. The issue isn't 100% woke, but its not as if the woke crap isn't a major factor here.

Now, I hate this because Eastern developers are in some ways greedier than American studios with their monetization models. They are predatory as fuck. The First Descendant drew a lot of criticism for its early monetization model and pricing, which was way out of line for games of that type. Today, it's mostly a better value than a lot of other games on that front, with only buying full ultimate characters really being a massive rip off. Aion 2, Jesus. I thought Star Trek Online was bad. Charging $30 for an outfit per server instead of on an account wide unlock is complete nonsense. I believe their subscription service is like that too. It's maximum effort greed all around with those guys. Ananta will probably be bad on that front too.
This isn't bias so much as plain logic. The reality is that poor game mechanics or top-level franchise decisions (recycling a formula every year, chasing me-too trends) matter far more than the demographics of the characters or a game's intended message. BioWare not only had problems that had been going on for a while, it was succeeding while supposedly pushing a "woke" agenda (remember, Mass Effect was always about uniting diverse cultural groups, and was clearly inclusive of LGBT).
Again, being inclusive isn't woke by itself. This has been covered numerous times. I have thousands of hours in the ME games and I wouldn't call the trilogy games woke. (I would call Andromeda woke though its tame by modern standards). Diversity or LGBT characters aren't bad things by themselves. How they are implemented and portrayed matters here. Again, context is key to understanding this.
The always-blame-woke crowd reminds me of that "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" adage. They're so single-minded that they literally can't imagine any other factors at work, games or otherwise — see the people who think Star Trek is flailing when its core ideology hasn't changed since 1966. Good analysis involves considering all potential factors and letting evidence determine the theory, not insisting on one theory and interpreting the evidence to make it fit.
Yeah, if you think Star Trek's core ideology hasn't changed since 1966, I can see why you'd be confused on the topic. It most certainly has.

Star Trek was always progressive. It wasn't ever woke until the modern era. There is a distinct difference between the two. The stories told by each are done through vastly different lenses at different times in history. But, for the same of brevity, I'll keep it simple.

Classic Star Trek (TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT)
Star Trek takes a social issue of the day, then presents both sides of that argument or an issue equally through its narrative and characters. Both sides and their points of view are generally portrayed fairly. We watch as the characters explore their choices, weighing the morality of each perspective, then choosing one way or the other. In some stories, the Starfleet officers help other races and cultures to see their more enlightened perspective through compassion, logic, and example. It's done respectfully when it does take sides. But often, the viewer is left to decide whether one thing is right or wrong. It's not always subtle to be fair, but its often nuanced and in some cases, its' very subtle about what its trying to say, without forcing it down the viewers throats.

Nu Trek (STD, PIC S1-2, SNW, Starfleet Academy)
Nu Trek presents one side as being absolutely correct. It belittles the other side of the argument, making them appear dumb and less intelligent, or less enlightened. It tells the viewer what perspective is the correct one from the way they frame the opposing viewpoint and those characters. It doesn't trust its audience to be able to choose for themselves or to think about anything presented critically. There is no nuance, no subtlety. It forces its version of morality down your throats. The portrayal of the Klingon Empire is a great example of this. It's Klingons aren't portrayed as honorable warriors like they mostly are in classic Trek, but rather as xenophobic racists. The showrunner of the first season literally said the Klingons were allegory for MAGA supporters.

This is one of the core problems. People assume that woke is just a pejorative term for being progressive, or progressive ideology. It is not.

I think its possible to make an argument that woke is the primary reason for Star Trek currently failing, but its not quite that simple. It's mismanagement, but Kurtzman and co are believers in the woke ideology and the leftist playbook. I mean, you can basically hear it from Kurtzman and co themselves in interviews. To say woke isn't a massive part of the problem isn't seeing the whole picture. Because when you look at it, there are stories that are badly written that aren't necessarily woke. That might make you dismiss the idea that woke is the cause, but when you look at who the writers are on that show, you will realize that they are all young, inexperienced and pretty much towing the company line which is all about woke messaging. Stakeholder capitalism and other factors come into play here just like they do in the gaming industry.

But really, it's writers who place messaging first above telling a good story. Writers that are by in large very inexperienced who work for cheap and haven't had the time in the industry to hone their craft. I'll leave you with this gem on that front:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOmZ7WsRXxg
 
I can get into all of that, but wokeness is a big reason why all these games lately are turning out like shit.
Note, as an aside, the rise of indie games, many of which are not woke, nor crappy. They take a long time to put out but that's because so many of them are one or a handful of people. But most of them seem to want to put out a good game, not a message. (Obvously there are going to be exceptions.)
 
Nu Trek (STD, PIC S1-2, SNW, Starfleet Academy)
Nu Trek presents one side as being absolutely correct. It belittles the other side of the argument, making them appear dumb and less intelligent, or less enlightened. It tells the viewer what perspective is the correct one from the way they frame the opposing viewpoint and those characters. It doesn't trust its audience to be able to choose for themselves or to think about anything presented critically. There is no nuance, no subtlety. It forces its version of morality down your throats. The portrayal of the Klingon Empire is a great example of this. It's Klingons aren't portrayed as honorable warriors like they mostly are in classic Trek, but rather as xenophobic racists. The showrunner of the first season literally said the Klingons were allegory for MAGA supporters.
I wanna examine one particular element of this that should be illustrative: Lorca. In the first 2/3 or so of the season, he's brilliant, he's basically the only reason the Federation hasn't already been wiped out by the Klingons (ok, i'm exaggerating a bit) but it's clearly established what his character is like. Then, they drop the revelation he's really from the other universe and the heel turn is so blatant that he becomes little more than a rabid xenophobe. It's just not believable. He's clearly smart enough--in his first iteration--to realize that a half-assed effort to hide (for example) his hatred of non-humans would go a long way to whatever his goals were. But no, the writers had to hammer you over the head about how bad the alternate universe was, so they turned him into a caricature. That's insulting to everyone: it tells your audience you think they're stupid, just to start. (or else it tells them that YOU, the writer, are stupid. Or maybe both.)
 
Note, as an aside, the rise of indie games, many of which are not woke, nor crappy. They take a long time to put out but that's because so many of them are one or a handful of people. But most of them seem to want to put out a good game, not a message. (Obvously there are going to be exceptions.)
Stardew Valley could be considered "woke", and the creator of the game, Eric Barone "ConcernedApe" could be considered "woke", too, since he is a strong supporter of LGBTQ+. His game grossed over half a billion in revenue as one of the top-selling indie game of all time. It's a good game, my daughter really liked playing it, and we're both waiting on the 1.7 update, as well as Haunted Chocolatier, his new game. Whether or not it's "woke", it's definitely LGBTQ+ friendly, as it doesn't actively prevent you from same-sex relationships, if you choose to have one. Mods also allow transgender and non-binary characters. We don't care if a game is woke or not woke, if it's a good game, it's a good game.

Again, some will say the game's not woke, or it is woke, but there's no solid consensus from the anti-woke crowd. However, we see from the typical influencers of the anti-woke side, if a game is a failure, it's definitely "woke". If the game is a success, it's not really "woke" and ignored.

KOTOR and Jade Empire had LGBTQ+ characters, but were largely successful. As newer games came out, and as we further proceeded past 2016, there was just a larger vocal minority creating "woke" meters. Any content creator stating a woke game was good, was automatically called out for being woke. It's just silly.
 
Herein lies the problem. Patterns only visible to the people who believe it is all, or mostly, to be blamed on identity politics. I see patterns but, personally, I see it more as rooted in money and bad executive decision making. Bioware, as noted in this thread, had problems going back long before any of this sort of stuff was on the radar but people seem to dismiss all that stuff and either blame it all on woke, or claim woke prevented it from being saved. The gaming industry, as a whole, has systemic problems right now that spans all sorts of games, whether they're "infected by woke" or not and whenever this topic comes up all that gets ignored in favour of slamming identity politics.

Either way, we all swing towards our biases whether we think we do or not. I tend to blame money managers as causing many problems because I see it all the time in my industry. Other people have biases against other topics and will swing their blame in that direction, including people who blame woke for everything.

Dude, the people working on these projects are explicitly saying identity politics is intrinsic into their design and story narratives. This isn't an assumption, listen to what they're telling you.
 
Dude, the people working on these projects are explicitly saying identity politics is intrinsic into their design and story narratives. This isn't an assumption, listen to what they're telling you.
No, you see, that's just your inability to think of anything else and we need a detailed statistical analysis before any conclusions can be drawn :rolleyes:. It simply cannot have anything to do with what they're saying outright or the colossal wastes of money to do it :rolleyes::rolleyes:.
 
Played Mass Effect years ago until one of my characters "died," then got back up. I was like WTF? Realized then the pussy world of gaming had arrived. Quit and haven't touched any new games since.
 
Played Mass Effect years ago until one of my characters "died," then got back up. I was like WTF? Realized then the pussy world of gaming had arrived. Quit and haven't touched any new games since.
Stuff like that happened in games long before Mass Effect came along. Story wise, their armor can deliver medigel directly to injured areas, healing them.
 
No, you see, that's just your inability to think of anything else and we need a detailed statistical analysis before any conclusions can be drawn :rolleyes:. It simply cannot have anything to do with what they're saying outright or the colossal wastes of money to do it :rolleyes::rolleyes:.
You mean people need to stop noticing? I would almost agree if Dragon Age The Veilguard didn't have a scene where the main discussion is a character that is none binary. The reason this feels very heavy handed is because this is a fantasy world where your imagination is the limit. Yet, we're limited to modern western problems like a person who's in the middle of transitioning. Just visit your local sorcery and ask for a gender race change. Trust me, I've seen them do it since the 80's.


View: https://youtu.be/TPXhL36Uj90?si=lqxIXyfFUfn7FtwY
 
This is from GDC 2017, lol.. imagine how much worse they are now almost a decade later.

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The fact people are actually defending or ignoring identity politics in games are a considerable (if not significant) factor in many of these western studios producing constant AAA game failures leading to studio closures and layoffs is astounding. They're either all for it because they agree with it, or they're being intentionally obtuse while trying to gaslight everyone else that it's not happening still or doesn't matter as long as the gameplay is still good.
 
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This is from GDC 2017, lol.. imagine how much worse they are now almost a decade later.

View attachment 833515

The fact people are actually ignoring and defending identity politics in games are a considerable (if not significant) factor in many of these western studios producing constant AAA failures leading to studio closures and layoffs is astounding. They're either all for it because they agree with it, or they're being intentionally obtuse while trying to gaslight everyone else that it's not happening still or doesn't matter as long as the gameplay is still good.
I've never seen one of these woke dumpster fires that didn't compromise its gameplay in some way. Dragon Age the Veilguard had repetitive combat, Concord was nothing special, Andromeda actually had combat as a high point for it, but its story, characters and dialog were a step backwards in most respects. Wolverine has shallow combat, etc. Star Wars Outlaws should have had stealth and general combat on par with a Ghost Recon or Splinter Cell title given Ubisoft's skills in this area. And Outlaws is literally bad at both those things.
 
This is from GDC 2017, lol.. imagine how much worse they are now almost a decade later.

View attachment 833515

The fact people are actually ignoring and defending identity politics in games are a considerable (if not significant) factor in many of these western studios producing constant AAA failures leading to studio closures and layoffs is astounding. They're either all for it because they agree with it, or they're being intentionally obtuse while trying to gaslight everyone else that it's not happening still or doesn't matter as long as the gameplay is still good.
They really need to keep quiet.
caught me monologuing.gif

I've never seen one of these woke dumpster fires that didn't compromise its gameplay in some way. Dragon Age the Veilguard had repetitive combat, Concord was nothing special, Andromeda actually had combat as a high point for it, but its story, characters and dialog were a step backwards in most respects. Wolverine has shallow combat, etc. Star Wars Outlaws should have had stealth and general combat on par with a Ghost Recon or Splinter Cell title given Ubisoft's skills in this area. And Outlaws is literally bad at both those things.
That's because the people that were hired to make these games didn't even play the original Super Mario Bros. I argue that if you're going to be a game developer then you should at least play the classics and finish the games. These developers main attribute is identity politics and nothing more. We've had games where the main character wasn't always a white bro. Sometimes it's a woman like Metroid. Japanese games tend to feature Japanese characters like Yakuza, Sekiro, and Persona. Grand Theft Auto San Andreas, Half-Life Alyx, and Beyond Good and Evil. Beloved games that nobody cared if the main character was a white dude. Most modern games have you make a character now. Some games you play as an Orc or Elf.

We really didn't need games where we impose a gender identity. The difference between Veilguard's Taash and Baldur's gate 3's Karlach is that BG3 didn't force me to have a meeting about their gender identity. I rarely care about peoples names, let alone what gender they want to identify as.
 
Representation and inclusivity is not 'woke' or indicative of hidden identity agendas.

however...

Performative representation and bureaucratic inclusivity is not progressive or culturally beneficial.

Both of these statements can be true, and I think a vast majority of reasonable people can agree.

Balder's Gate 3: Genuine representation and inclusivity

DA Veilguard: Performative representation and bureaucratic inclusivity.
 
This is from GDC 2017, lol.. imagine how much worse they are now almost a decade later.

View attachment 833515

The fact people are actually defending or ignoring identity politics in games are a considerable (if not significant) factor in many of these western studios producing constant AAA game failures leading to studio closures and layoffs is astounding. They're either all for it because they agree with it, or they're being intentionally obtuse while trying to gaslight everyone else that it's not happening still or doesn't matter as long as the gameplay is still good.

They'll see it as a sacrifice to the greater cause, that eventually they'll shame enough people into pushing their viewpoint and forcing purchases as a demonstration of your moral virtues. This is a religion and they will eventually make you "see the light" through institutional capture and indoctrination. They're hoping to win by attrition, but they don't understand that VCs and investors think quarter to quarter and won't tolerate sustained losses indefinitely, which is what's happening now. We seem to be getting to the point where management is no longer willing to genuflect to the loudest, shrill voices of their pink haired staff any longer, because they've been reminded by the people that write the cheques that their livelihood depends on profitability.
 
I've never seen one of these woke dumpster fires that didn't compromise its gameplay in some way. Dragon Age the Veilguard had repetitive combat, Concord was nothing special, Andromeda actually had combat as a high point for it, but its story, characters and dialog were a step backwards in most respects. Wolverine has shallow combat, etc. Star Wars Outlaws should have had stealth and general combat on par with a Ghost Recon or Splinter Cell title given Ubisoft's skills in this area. And Outlaws is literally bad at both those things.

Agreed.

I tried to like Andromeda, but eventually gave up. I couldn't get into the story because there was nothing about the characters that made me care about any of them, but I also found the gameplay to be rather repetitive. Everything I did in that game felt like a repackaged version of everything else I had just done, and there was no intriguing story arc to make it feel worth it to me. I didn't feel like I was accomplishing anything toward something that mattered.
 
Representation and inclusivity is not 'woke' or indicative of hidden identity agendas.

however...

Performative representation and bureaucratic inclusivity is not progressive or culturally beneficial.

Both of these statements can be true, and I think a vast majority of reasonable people can agree.

Balder's Gate 3: Genuine representation and inclusivity

DA Veilguard: Performative representation and bureaucratic inclusivity.
I agree completely. Pre-gamer gate games already had plenty of inclusivity with characters of other races and women as well. The issue now is leftist studios don't agree with those roles for them now and now they have to be represented in male-dominated roles as well (and visa versa). The original Gears of War games had Cole and Anya and players loved them and their personalities because their race and gender wasn't their personality, and they also were in appropriate and belivable roles in those games. Now in Gears E-Day, we have a black female lesbian with two blatant disabilities (blind in one eye and astma) and yet she's fighting alongside the men in her squad while talking shit to them and taking the lead in many situations, while also not being subjected to any criticism (even jokingly as men do amongst themselves often) or having any obvious character flaws.

The ME series also was great in this respect, as you had full agency to be a man or women, gay or straight while also romancing any other species on your crew. It had actual diversity where it matters; in thought and morals. For example you had Ashley that was somewhat prejudice towards other species and always had humans as her priority in missions. And you had agency as Shepard to either support, condemn, or remain neutral on her stance when she presented it. Games now largely remove that agency for you to support or condemn characters when they present their own ideas or morals. They largly consider women and LGBT characters as a protected class that you must support or at least have no agency to challenge them on anything. You see that in Veilguard where you cannot reject or criticize any of the identity politics the characters present in that game.

This type of performative representation is actually counter-productive to their intent behind promoting these types of characters in their games, as you can see with half of their actual audience (as opposed to their target audience who aren't even buying their games) rejecting these characters that are blatantly forced into their favorite series and this reflects in their poor sales. It's also disingenuous and actually damaging to the demographic they're trying to promote, because it's so blatantly forced and obvious they're unsuited for that role and if they're absent of any character flaws or criticism in the game. When any demographic like this is allowed to replace male roles while also being exempt from any character flaws or criticism, it just breeds contempt for them from anyone outside of that demographic or the idealogically captured people obsessed with promoting them while also only representing the demographic their actual audience (white males) in antagonist roles and essentially demonizing them (E-Day is another good example of this with the evil Colonel that the female Captain gets to rebel against and advocate for the black female mayor of the town and its citizens).

BLUF, no one has an issue with these types of characters in games, just what roles they're forced into and how they can't be presented with any real character flaws or problematic personalities. Including making women intentionally unattractive, as opposed to just being average looking because somehow this idea that you can not be unattractive while also not being super attractive escapes these people. Capcom has figured this out pretty well, and then you see Aloy and Faye in Horizon and God of War get hit with the ugly stick just from their previous games and their IRL acresses.
 
The ME series also was great in this respect, as you had full agency to be a man or women, gay or straight while also romancing any other species on your crew. It had actual diversity where it matters; in thought and morals.
Mass Effect is perfect for this because the future would likely fix a lot of problems, including transitioning. If a Mass Effect character wanted to be a man or woman then SciFi technobabble can fix that. You can be as gay or interspecies as you want. No need to talk about pronouns.
When any demographic like this is allowed to replace male roles while also being exempt from any character flaws or criticism, it just breeds contempt for them from anyone outside of that demographic or the idealogically captured people obsessed with promoting them while also only representing the demographic their actual audience (white males) in antagonist roles and essentially demonizing them (E-Day is another good example of this with the evil Colonel that the female Captain gets to rebel against and advocate for the black female mayor of the town and its citizens).
What's infuriating is they change race and gender from what was clearly not that before. They do this all the time and they think everyone is cool with it. It rarely works out.
BLUF, no one has an issue with these types of characters in games, just what roles they're forced into and how they can't be presented with any real character flaws or problematic personalities. Including making women intentionally unattractive, as opposed to just being average looking because somehow this idea that you can not be unattractive while also not being super attractive escapes these people. Capcom has figured this out pretty well, and then you see Aloy and Faye in Horizon and God of War get hit with the ugly stick just from their previous games and their IRL acresses.
A good example of how to deal with this correctly is in World of Warcraft with the succubus. Rather than remove the succubus, they instead added an incubus. They must have really wanted to remove this NPC but there was a compromise.
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Never mind the culture war zealotry: the real reason for the shutdown was a choice between investing in Star Wars: Battlefront 3 or Mass Effect Universe.

EA was under pressure to trim costs thanks to the debt imposed by its new owner, and with each game expected to cost hundreds of millions of dollars the "safer" bet was a Star Wars shooter versus an in-house franchise RPG from a studio whose recent titles (including the latest Mass Effect release) weren't big hits.

It's notable that EA never truly 'got' BioWare. It wanted action games with predictable release schedules and after-sale content, not RPGs that take an indeterminate number of years to arrive. Anthem was actually a BioWare idea, but it got EA's full backing precisely because it was the live-service looter shooter the publisher wanted.

This underscores a point I've made here and in other discussions: business strategies and core game mechanics do far more to impact studios than ideologies. Ubisoft is in trouble because it has invested massive amounts of money in formulaic annual releases that don't pan out, not because of the characters you play.
 
This underscores a point I've made here and in other discussions: business strategies and core game mechanics do far more to impact studios than ideologies. Ubisoft is in trouble because it has invested massive amounts of money in formulaic annual releases that don't pan out, not because of the characters you play.
While business strategies, game mechanics etc. are massive components that can absolutely make or break a game or kill studios, I think denying that woke kills games is just copium. The fact is, many of these titles are made worse by the hiring decisions behind the scenes. Having the wrong creative teams behind your games with any agenda besides making a good game will always bite you in the ass over anything else. Your business plan makes no difference when you can't deliver a good product. Additionally, the political ideologies are a red flag to consumers who are well trained to recognize such patterns at this point. It makes people cringe. It's often heavy handed and stupid. These things have definitely made every game infested with them less successful than other games in a given series that didn't. Woke is a factor, a major one. But it isn't the only factor.

God of War Ragnarok, The Last of Us 2, etc. are examples of woke hurting sales. Sure, those games were successful, but they weren't as successful as their predecessors which is unusual for sequels to popular games. They were also earlier releases before the pattern was as recognizable as it is today. When people detect this formula, the games perform substantially worse. The only ones that have mediocre sales are generally the ones attached to major IP's, but even that doesn't save them. Look at Suicide Quad: Kill the Justice League, Star Wars Outlaws, Look at Gotham Knights. Again, there is a difference between inclusivity and performative pandering. One of these two won't impact sales and the other will. Dragon Age The Veilguard compared to Baldur's Gate 3 is a good comparison to make because one did inclusion well and the other didn't.

We have a few indicators that EA may have made the right call. Catherynne M. Valente was one of two lead writers on Mass Effect Universe. Given some of her social media posts, we dodged a bullet with its cancellation. If it's true BioWare fought to keep pride flags in the game, then we are lucky that game was shut down. Again, that's a studio putting their advocacy efforts above telling a good story and making a great game. That said, BF2 caught lots of backlash and didn't do as well as it could have. Star Wars itself is a pretty tainted brand at this point, so I'm not entirely sure that's a good bet, but I can see how it might see BF3 as a safer bet than Mass Effect Universe.
 
While business strategies, game mechanics etc. are massive components that can absolutely make or break a game or kill studios, I think denying that woke kills games is just copium. The fact is, many of these titles are made worse by the hiring decisions behind the scenes. Having the wrong creative teams behind your games with any agenda besides making a good game will always bite you in the ass over anything else. Your business plan makes no difference when you can't deliver a good product. Additionally, the political ideologies are a red flag to consumers who are well trained to recognize such patterns at this point. It makes people cringe. It's often heavy handed and stupid. These things have definitely made every game infested with them less successful than other games in a given series that didn't. Woke is a factor, a major one. But it isn't the only factor.

God of War Ragnarok, The Last of Us 2, etc. are examples of woke hurting sales. Sure, those games were successful, but they weren't as successful as their predecessors which is unusual for sequels to popular games. They were also earlier releases before the pattern was as recognizable as it is today. When people detect this formula, the games perform substantially worse. The only ones that have mediocre sales are generally the ones attached to major IP's, but even that doesn't save them. Look at Suicide Quad: Kill the Justice League, Star Wars Outlaws, Look at Gotham Knights. Again, there is a difference between inclusivity and performative pandering. One of these two won't impact sales and the other will. Dragon Age The Veilguard compared to Baldur's Gate 3 is a good comparison to make because one did inclusion well and the other didn't.

We have a few indicators that EA may have made the right call. Catherynne M. Valente was one of two lead writers on Mass Effect Universe. Given some of her social media posts, we dodged a bullet with its cancellation. If it's true BioWare fought to keep pride flags in the game, then we are lucky that game was shut down. Again, that's a studio putting their advocacy efforts above telling a good story and making a great game. That said, BF2 caught lots of backlash and didn't do as well as it could have. Star Wars itself is a pretty tainted brand at this point, so I'm not entirely sure that's a good bet, but I can see how it might see BF3 as a safer bet than Mass Effect Universe.
Can you actually attribute the sales of Ragnarok and TLOU2 to supposed 'wokeness,' or just that sequels aren't guaranteed to match sales of their predecessors? TLOU2 alone faced a number of hurdles, including its arrival at the end of the PS4's lifecycle and even a story that was all too appropriate for the time (who wants to play a game about a deadly pandemic while living through a deadly pandemic?).

The issue is quality writing, not the underlying agenda. You can call for trans rights by weaving it elegantly into the plot rather than clubbing people over the head, for instance.

And that's virtually irrelevant with BioWare's fate. It was putting out merely okay games that couldn't recoup their development costs, and were sometimes wracked by poor top-level strategy. Andromeda, Anthem, and Veilguard weren't outright terrible; they just weren't as good as they needed to be, and had issues like scope changes, leadership shuffles, and rushed schedules. They could have had conspicuously 'non-woke' writing and still floundered.
 
The issue is quality writing, not the underlying agenda.
This doesn't seem to invalidate or even technically disagree with what he said. (I'll admit what I've seen of Veilguard is pretty much literally just that misgendering clip.)
 
Can you actually attribute the sales of Ragnarok and TLOU2 to supposed 'wokeness,' or just that sequels aren't guaranteed to match sales of their predecessors? TLOU2 alone faced a number of hurdles, including its arrival at the end of the PS4's lifecycle and even a story that was all too appropriate for the time (who wants to play a game about a deadly pandemic while living through a deadly pandemic?).

The issue is quality writing, not the underlying agenda. You can call for trans rights by weaving it elegantly into the plot rather than clubbing people over the head, for instance.

And that's virtually irrelevant with BioWare's fate. It was putting out merely okay games that couldn't recoup their development costs, and were sometimes wracked by poor top-level strategy. Andromeda, Anthem, and Veilguard weren't outright terrible; they just weren't as good as they needed to be, and had issues like scope changes, leadership shuffles, and rushed schedules. They could have had conspicuously 'non-woke' writing and still floundered.
Whether the writing was simply bad or people hated the lesbian stuff, doesn't really matter. The perception is that the game was woke and pushing the alphabet mafia agenda. The simple perception that is woke is as good as it being woke. Either way, it was less successful because of the backlash the plot and writing got at the time, and though it sold well, the game didn't resonate with consumers the way the previous one did. The game's narrative direction and choices weren't well received. They did the protagonist from the first game dirty, and Abbey was pretty well hated by players from what I can recall. Call it woke or not if you want, but those decisions absolutely hurt the game's success.

Video game sales aren't like movies. For most movies, sequels rarely beat the first film in the series. This is the opposite of what usually happens with games. Video game sequels typically do better than their predecessors. You can say that the annual release formula doesn't work, but it clearly does. For the longest time, each CoD game broke records and sold more than its predecessors did. Fatigue can factor in eventually, but only when the formula gets stale and rarely changes.

To be specific, Anthem and Andromeda were victims of mismanagement, delays, cost overruns and technical problems relating to rushed development. However, Andromeda most certainly caught backlash for being woke at the time. People complained about the ugly female characters, the fact you couldn't really make a white character early on until it was patched or you used the default male/female options. They even made the female protagonist hideous between the early access build that people who pre-ordered the game got and the retail release version. Additionally, the game was derided for its very safe writing, cringey forced trans stuff and handling of its gay characters compared to the earlier games.

So yeah, wokeness was a factor. And keep in mind, I've defended the game as not being as bad as people make it out to be. But there are issues with it that made it less successful. Veilguard is terrible. It's exactly what people say it is. Technically it was a smooth launch, so its the merits of its story combined with repetitive gameplay that sunk it and killed its sales. Don't kid yourself, the cringe scenes that were meme'ed to death absolutely impacted sales.
 
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Never mind the culture war zealotry: the real reason for the shutdown was a choice between investing in Star Wars: Battlefront 3 or Mass Effect Universe.
Yes but it was probably the woke that hurt EA's faith in BioWare. We already saw Mass Effect Andromeda and how it did. Considering the backlash over losing a Mass Effect game, then it would be stupid for EA to choose.
This underscores a point I've made here and in other discussions: business strategies and core game mechanics do far more to impact studios than ideologies. Ubisoft is in trouble because it has invested massive amounts of money in formulaic annual releases that don't pan out, not because of the characters you play.
Why not both? Game mechanics alone isn't enough, but so is ideologies. Andromeda failed in almost every way compared to the original trilogy. BioWare deserved to be shutdown. Mass Effect needs it's IP to be bought by another studio.
why not both.gif


View: https://youtu.be/QDjci1ODoBs?si=SeC4jZ0-tDgw-KOS
 
Well, Andromeda was a step up graphically and the combat was another high point for it. Story and character wise it was a step back. Though some of the characters don't get the credit they deserve, and I think Andromeda does get unfairly compared to the trilogy in this respect. I also think the open world formula hurt the overall game. It destroyed the game's pacing.
 
Agree that Andromeda gameplay was pretty smooth. Felt more natural than the prescripted battle spots of Mass effect two and three. And at least the krogan character was likable enough, though not as memorable as characters in the trilogy, but it was kind of funny to see him interact with the young "kids" sometimes.

The game really did have a lot of good things going for it. It just was really unfortunate that it got sabotaged by small things.
 
Agree that Andromeda gameplay was pretty smooth. Felt more natural than the prescripted battle spots of Mass effect two and three. And at least the krogan character was likable enough, though not as memorable as characters in the trilogy, but it was kind of funny to see him interact with the young "kids" sometimes.

The game really did have a lot of good things going for it. It just was really unfortunate that it got sabotaged by small things.
That's what I mean by unfair comparisons. People compare the Andromeda characters to the entirety of the Mass Effect trilogy. In fairness, the characters in Andromeda should be compared to the ones in Mass Effect 1. On that front, I don't think it fares as badly as people say it does. Sure, BioWare didn't exactly stick the landing with all Andromeda's characters but I think it compares better than people give it credit for when judged that way.
 
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