EAC v2 and Fortnite coming to Linux

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Mazzspeed

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So...

It seems little Tim Sweeney has seen the error of his ways and has not only released a native EGS application for Linux (vibe coded - yep, Epic brag about it, and it's buggy as hell at this point in time; but it is an extreme alpha release), he's also on track to release EAC v2 for Linux - which is as close to not quite kernel level anticheat as we're gonna get under an open source OS (and as close as I'm comfortable with), and something I personally see as a good thing that can only help to overcome a 'major' hurdle regarding games and Linux support - Even Fortnite is coming to Linux (gasp!).

Secure boot needs to be enabled, TPM 2.0 needs to be enabled, and IOMMU needs to be enabled. I've just spent some time updating my motherboard's BIOS, enabling all three and forcing KDE Neon to register a key regarding my Nvidia dkms drivers via an MOK password (otherwise I can just run the latest officially signed 595 drivers). All is good on my system now, Secure boot, TPM 2.0 and IOMMU are all enabled and I'm ready to go.

EGS launcher for Linux (be warned, it's really buggy at this point in time, Lutris may be a better solution for now):

https://store.epicgames.com/news/epic-games-launcher-preview

News here:

https://onlineservices.epicgames.com/news/introducing-easy-anti-cheat-linux-v2

NOTE: While this implementation doesn't run 'entirely' in user space, it's not kernel level anticheat as implemented under Windows by basically using a kernel level driver running as a rootkit:

On Windows, we rely heavily on a kernel driver to protect the games. This driver isn’t always on, it starts when a game is launched and stops when the player exits. For EAC Linux v2 we will not leverage an equivalent kernel module, and instead we’ll take full advantage of existing Linux platform security features like measured boot, the kernel lockdown LSM, and IOMMU support, plus our own eBPF logic to maintain integrity and detect cheaters. These security features are not available on every distro and may require configuration changes to activate.
Click to expand...

Furthermore, it's not forcing specific kernels, the only requirement is a kernel signed with a well known key. Ubuntu and it's derivatives come by default with a signed kernel using a well known key, as do many other distro's. Arch, however, is going to be a problem unless Arch devs start signing kernels with a common key. Setting everything up under a distro based on Ubuntu LTS is trivially simple.
 
Good to see Epic realizing they better jump in, even if it is a just in case. I'm sure they realize handhelds are probably never going to really be windows based going forward. Beyond that who knows why not hedge your bets if all it costs is a few AI tokens. lol

On that score. I been messing around with photocraft today. https://github.com/storytold/photocraft
I know its a 95% AI spawn. Having said that, damn if its not the smoothest photo editing experience I have had on Linux. (Yes I have enough Photoshop memory left in me to just be at home) As much as I like Krita, and even the Gimp. This weeks old project mostly done by Claude is pretty solid.

It feels like computing is going to change a lot very quickly. Epic coming to Linux, people recompiling Playstation games as Linux binaries (not legal but ya AI is going to F things up). I laughed at Omarchy and the whole agentic Linux stuff. Now maybe I'm starting to get why people are excited. The photocraft project is fully plumped for agents. (they can use every feature via agent interfaces) I'm glad Epic is jumping in finally first party, as much as I love Heroic. I wonder though in 5 or 6 months from now if its going to matter. I also laughed at Musks... we won't need operating systems anymore comments.

Anyway its late and I'm off topic. Epic trying to Linux. OK. :)
 
ChadD said:
On that score. I been messing around with photocraft today. https://github.com/storytold/photocraft
I know its a 95% AI spawn. Having said that, damn if its not the smoothest photo editing experience I have had on Linux. (Yes I have enough Photoshop memory left in me to just be at home) As much as I like Krita, and even the Gimp. This weeks old project mostly done by Claude is pretty solid.
Click to expand...
I've also been using Photocraft, and so far I'm impressed. Although like yourself, I'm mostly relying on memory from over a decade ago now...
 
Mazzspeed said:
So...

It seems little Tim Sweeney has seen the error of his ways and has not only released a native EGS application for Linux (vibe coded - yep, Epic brag about it, and it's buggy as hell at this point in time; but it is an extreme alpha release), he's also on track to release EAC v2 for Linux - which is as close to not quite kernel level anticheat as we're gonna get under an open source OS (and as close as I'm comfortable with), and something I personally see as a good thing that can only help to overcome a 'major' hurdle regarding games and Linux support - Even Fortnite is coming to Linux (gasp!).

Secure boot needs to be enabled, TPM 2.0 needs to be enabled, and IOMMU needs to be enabled. I've just spent some time updating my motherboard's BIOS, enabling all three and forcing KDE Neon to register a key regarding my Nvidia dkms drivers via an MOK password (otherwise I can just run the latest officially signed 595 drivers). All is good on my system now, Secure boot, TPM 2.0 and IOMMU are all enabled and I'm ready to go.

EGS launcher for Linux (be warned, it's really buggy at this point in time, Lutris may be a better solution for now):

https://store.epicgames.com/news/epic-games-launcher-preview

News here:

https://onlineservices.epicgames.com/news/introducing-easy-anti-cheat-linux-v2

NOTE: While this implementation doesn't run 'entirely' in user space, it's not kernel level anticheat as implemented under Windows by basically using a kernel level driver running as a rootkit:



Furthermore, it's not forcing specific kernels, the only requirement is a kernel signed with a well known key. Ubuntu and it's derivatives come by default with a signed kernel using a well known key, as do many other distro's. Arch, however, is going to be a problem unless Arch devs start signing kernels with a common key. Setting everything up under a distro based on Ubuntu LTS is trivially simple.
Click to expand...
they got kernel level anti cheat on linux?
 
Have to say after reading what Epic is saying now that I'm fully awake.
"using existing Linux features including signed kernel, signed kernel modules, and secure boot with attestation."
They can piss off. lol
Go away Epic your not wanted. Their supporting Linux is going to mean Ubuntu. I very much hope Valve says no thanks.
Anyone stupid enough to load a Epic signed kernel module deserves to be rooted by a mornic company bragging about vibe coding a launcher.
 
Steam store back on top #1 Baby !!! Can’t stop, won’t stop


“New Steam Update Puts Startup Times Back Ahead of Epic's Vibe-Coded Launcher​

by DrUsmanSaleem Today, 09:14 Discuss (2 Comments)
Epic Games released a preview of its rebuilt, "vibe coded" Epic Games Launcher on October 14, and took a direct shot at Steam while at it. Epic's own chart shows the new launcher cold starting in 5.47 seconds against 10.07 seconds for Steam, which the company bills as 46% faster. That lead apparently didn't last long, as a clip posted by user girlglock_ on X shows the current Steam client starting in 5.23 seconds. Although it might seem like it at first, this isn't a rushed reply from Valve. The stable Steam Client Update that lists "Improved Steam Client startup performance" is dated October 13, a day before Epic's announcement, and Steam's beta client was already getting startup improvements back in September. Valve hasn't shared any numbers for it, though.

Epic's figures, on the other hand, come from testing it commissioned from Keywords Studios earlier this month, averaging five runs on 13 machines with the three lowest-end systems left out, so they were probably taken on an older Steam build. Results will vary from one PC to the next, of course. Epic's launcher is also light on features for now, and the company advises competitive Fortnite and Rocket League players to stay on the current launcher during the preview. It does run natively on Linux, with Fortnite set to follow once Epic finishes rebuilding its anti-cheat, and the vibe coding part fits Epic's recent shift to AI-first development. Readers are advised to treat both sets of startup numbers as rough guides.“
 
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ChadD said:
Have to say after reading what Epic is saying now that I'm fully awake.
"using existing Linux features including signed kernel, signed kernel modules, and secure boot with attestation."
They can piss off. lol
Go away Epic your not wanted. Their supporting Linux is going to mean Ubuntu. I very much hope Valve says no thanks.
Anyone stupid enough to load a Epic signed kernel module deserves to be rooted by a mornic company bragging about vibe coding a launcher.
Click to expand...

This is literally the only way anti cheat will work on Linux

Any and all security is completely defeated the second someone decides to run their own kernel. Anti cheat is completely useless at that point - the system itself is outright untrustworthy and there is no workable defense no matter what you do.

It looks like they are reaching out to some major distros to get this moving.
 
ChadD said:
Have to say after reading what Epic is saying now that I'm fully awake.
"using existing Linux features including signed kernel, signed kernel modules, and secure boot with attestation."
They can piss off. lol
Go away Epic your not wanted. Their supporting Linux is going to mean Ubuntu. I very much hope Valve says no thanks.
Anyone stupid enough to load a Epic signed kernel module deserves to be rooted by a mornic company bragging about vibe coding a launcher.
Click to expand...

There will always be people like you, the OG Linux crowd that uses Linux for specific reasons this conflicts with.

But this is for the normies that are just getting into Linux now and the future.

Steam Deck, Steam Machine, and their clones, and Windows updates pushing people away is moving Linux into mainstream gamer territory.
Most of these people would gladly allow that to play all the games that require it.


This is a huge hurdle preventing a lot of multiplayer games from coming to Linux. Once it's in place there is going to be an explosion of Linux support for games. It will boost gaming on Linux and it will just be standard to support it for every game.

It reminds me of when Epic "accidently" enabled cross-play for Fortnite on Playstation then shortly after Sony gave in and officially allowed it. Then every multiplayer game had crossplay.
 
sharknice said:
There will always be people like you, the OG Linux crowd that uses Linux for specific reasons this conflicts with.

But this is for the normies that are just getting into Linux now and the future.

Steam Deck, Steam Machine, and their clones, and Windows updates pushing people away is moving Linux into mainstream gamer territory.
Most of these people would gladly allow that to play all the games that require it.


This is a huge hurdle preventing a lot of multiplayer games from coming to Linux. Once it's in place there is going to be an explosion of Linux support for games. It will boost gaming on Linux and it will just be standard to support it for every game.

It reminds me of when Epic "accidently" enabled cross-play for Fortnite on Playstation then shortly after Sony gave in and officially allowed it. Then every multiplayer game had crossplay.
Click to expand...
Honestly, yeah.
Linux, in this case, is its own worst enemy.

It would be great if Valve and Epic could get together and put out a unified Linux distro that they could essentially console'ify.
Have it become the de facto Linux PC gaming distro that they could do their needed checks against, nothing stopping advanced users from moving away from the default template, but also no guarantees that the needed anti-cheats would function with their changes.

Valve is doing great work with the SteamOS, but if Valve and Epic joined forces on it, then that would be a huge deal.

I do think that a unified front against Microsoft is what's needed at this stage, and having them divide their efforts is counterproductive to their intended goals.
 
CrimsonKnight13 said:
Tim Sweeney hates Valve. No way they're going to partner 100% with a unified distro.
Click to expand...
But does he hate Valve more than Microsoft?

And they wouldn't have to 100% agree on the whole distro, just the core.
Steam is already using Arch; all it would take is them agreeing on a few small things from there.
 
socK said:
This is literally the only way anti cheat will work on Linux

Any and all security is completely defeated the second someone decides to run their own kernel. Anti cheat is completely useless at that point - the system itself is outright untrustworthy and there is no workable defense no matter what you do.

It looks like they are reaching out to some major distros to get this moving.
Click to expand...

I don't think they are going to get very far with anyone other then Ubuntu... who will whore themselves for pretty much anyone.

EDIT: Just to be clear "kernel level" anti cheat doesn't even work on windows. SO I mean. 99.99% of game cheating happens on windows. Not just because gamers are on windows. Its because if you try to use a windows cheat tool in Linux your going to get caught. Kernel level anti cheats are basically all by passed and cheats exist for those games. Windows is a security slop. Kernel level on windows makes no bloody difference windows doesn't really have a "kernel" its got a micro kernel that loads modules and libraries. MS still allows "signed" stuff that is known to be compromised. The list of windows attack vectors into kernel space is laughably long. What is hillairous is a lot of those windows loop holes are actually actively blocked by Linux tools while windows is still happy to load them. Things like mhyprot2.sys ironically a part of a kernel level anti cheat for a game is abused and still very much a trusted file. The general Linux community is not going to support what Epic is talking about doing. We don't want any of this crap that does not protect gamers from cheats, and introduces insanely powerful attack vectors.
 
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sharknice said:
There will always be people like you, the OG Linux crowd that uses Linux for specific reasons this conflicts with.

But this is for the normies that are just getting into Linux now and the future.

Steam Deck, Steam Machine, and their clones, and Windows updates pushing people away is moving Linux into mainstream gamer territory.
Most of these people would gladly allow that to play all the games that require it.


This is a huge hurdle preventing a lot of multiplayer games from coming to Linux. Once it's in place there is going to be an explosion of Linux support for games. It will boost gaming on Linux and it will just be standard to support it for every game.

It reminds me of when Epic "accidently" enabled cross-play for Fortnite on Playstation then shortly after Sony gave in and officially allowed it. Then every multiplayer game had crossplay.
Click to expand...

Frankly. IF people are willing to load modified "signed" haha kernels. To play games. Modified by a company that can't even program a game launcher by the way they had to Vibe it and are proud of that fact.

They might be better off staying on windows. (not joking) They are actually better off and in a better situation security wise staying where they are. There is zero reason for anyone to switch away from windows if this is what comes to pass. Just stay on windows. Microsoft is more trustworthy.

Thankfully I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the Linux world (including Valve) consider Epic a joke. So we'll see what happens if anything at all.
 
Lakados said:
But does he hate Valve more than Microsoft?

And they wouldn't have to 100% agree on the whole distro, just the core.
Steam is already using Arch; all it would take is them agreeing on a few small things from there.
Click to expand...

IF Valve goes along with this. Their support in the arch community will evaporate. If the Arch leadership says no no no this is a good thing guys. I won't matter. Arch without its developers is just a name. Valve can't maintain an entire base distro themselves... well I mean technically they could but Gabe isn't spending that sort of money every year to maintain a ton of none gaming things. Valve has done a lot of heavy lifting for games, but the bulk of Arch isn't developed by Valve, and the Arch community has been very helpful in making everything else that makes steamos decent. To be fair though Valve hasn't said anything, Epic saying we are working with Valve doesn't mean a whole bunch.
Valve has been asked by a few developers for this type of kernel intrusion before and they have always said get bent. I doubt they now say well ok, I guess are competitor vibe coded a SteamOS launcher we should maybe break our OS for them. What Epic is proposing beyond essentially being Linux kernel level anti cheat spying. Would greatly slow kernel updates for SteamOS or other Distros that buy in. I mean I'm sure we'll get a Ubuntu-Epic Enabled edition. Beyond them I don't see this happening. I think Sweeney honestly believes if he just announces it everyone is going to what cave and say ok we'll break our OS for you. :)
 
Code: 
What keys are considered well-known?

Here is a current list of keys that are considered well-known for use as Secure Boot signature database (db) keys and Machine Owner Keys (MOKs), which we plan to expand over time:

Canonical Ltd. Master Certificate Authority - used by Ubuntu and derived distros like Linux Mint

Fedora Secure Boot CA - used by Fedora and derived distros like Silverblue

Universal Blue - used by Bazzite, Bluefin, Aurora, and derived distros

Debian Secure Boot CA - used by Debian and derived distros

openSUSE Secure Boot CA - used by openSUSE and derived distros

SUSE Linux Enterprise Secure Boot CA

Rocky Linux Secure Boot Root CA

Microsoft UEFI CA - used to sign non-Microsoft components like the Linux bootloader shim project

AlmaLinux Secure Boot CA

---

What about Steam Deck?

The Steam Deck does not support the required features for our EAC v2 solution, but we are actively talking with Valve and hope to support it in the future.
 
ChadD said:
IF Valve goes along with this. Their support in the arch community will evaporate. If the Arch leadership says no no no this is a good thing guys. I won't matter.
Click to expand...

Why the fuck are you so dramatic. Who gives a fuck if the option is there. If you don't want it, then don't use it.

If someone wants to run their OS in this state then that's their prerogative
 
socK said:
Code: 
What keys are considered well-known?

Here is a current list of keys that are considered well-known for use as Secure Boot signature database (db) keys and Machine Owner Keys (MOKs), which we plan to expand over time:

Canonical Ltd. Master Certificate Authority - used by Ubuntu and derived distros like Linux Mint

Fedora Secure Boot CA - used by Fedora and derived distros like Silverblue

Universal Blue - used by Bazzite, Bluefin, Aurora, and derived distros

Debian Secure Boot CA - used by Debian and derived distros

openSUSE Secure Boot CA - used by openSUSE and derived distros

SUSE Linux Enterprise Secure Boot CA

Rocky Linux Secure Boot Root CA

Microsoft UEFI CA - used to sign non-Microsoft components like the Linux bootloader shim project

AlmaLinux Secure Boot CA

---

What about Steam Deck?

The Steam Deck does not support the required features for our EAC v2 solution, but we are actively talking with Valve and hope to support it in the future.
Click to expand...
This list is about the secure boot keys. Sweeney is not talking about just secure boot. Hey if they want to ask for secure boot keys and be happy with that... ya the system allows for that. Anyone that turns secure boot on is oking that. Thing is that isn't the whole proposal here.

The second part of that is key. "Does not support the required features" Well the deck 100% has secure boot and is singed. :)
Sweeney wants to compromise the Kernel directly with a kernel module. Fuck no.
 
ChadD said:
Frankly. IF people are willing to load modified "signed" haha kernels. To play games. Modified by a company that can't even program a game launcher by the way they had to Vibe it and are proud of that fact.

They might be better off staying on windows. (not joking) They are actually better off and in a better situation security wise staying where they are. There is zero reason for anyone to switch away from windows if this is what comes to pass. Just stay on windows. Microsoft is more trustworthy.

Thankfully I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the Linux world (including Valve) consider Epic a joke. So we'll see what happens if anything at all.
Click to expand...

lol no. I'm already seeing a lot of support for it apart from the freaks.
 
socK said:
Why the fuck are you so dramatic. Who gives a fuck if the option is there. If you don't want it, then don't use it.

If someone wants to run their OS in this state then that's their prerogative
Click to expand...
Sure I can be a bit dramatic. lol

The thing is. If kernel modules that allow games to creep ring 0 happen, its a security threat to all of Linux not just to people stupid enough to run those modules. Beyond that when it inevitably gets busted wide open (and it WILL) and people either use it to cheat on mass, or worse attack users systems/create bot nets run a little ransomare or some other annoyingly told ya so terrible things. The story won't be "the Linux people said this would happen" it will be see LINUX is pure evil back to Microsoft.
 
sharknice said:
lol no. I'm already seeing a lot of support for it apart from the freaks.
Click to expand...
I would suggest, that would be because they don't understand enough to realize what they would be agreeing to. As I said. Might as well just stay on windows. What is the point of moving to Linux in this scenario? What no co pilot? If the system isn't any more secure, and the game companies are running their key loggers and spy ware on your system anyway. What is the point?

Linux for most peoples hardware setup isn't going to game faster on Linux. (yes we can admit that Linux is only faster if you have fully open hardware which most people just don't) I mean really what is the point of moving to Linux if the advantages of Linux don't exist. I guess to be fair their are more advantages to Linux then just that, but for gamers wanting to play fortenight? I don't see why you switch to compromised Linux to replace windows. Just stay on windows.
 
ChadD said:
This list is about the secure boot keys. Sweeney is not talking about just secure boot. Hey if they want to ask for secure boot keys and be happy with that... ya the system allows for that. Anyone that turns secure boot on is oking that. Thing is that isn't the whole proposal here.

The second part of that is key. "Does not support the required features" Well the deck 100% has secure boot and is singed. :)
Sweeney wants to compromise the Kernel directly with a kernel module. Fuck no.
Click to expand...

The steam deck does not ship with it enabled.

You either use sbctl and effectively enroll a user supplied key, or use DeckSB... which literally calls sbctl with their own keys. Like DeckSB literally puts the public and private key in the repo because the goal is to just check the box - security wise it does literally nothing to protect the boot chain at that point since the private key is public.

ChadD said:
Sure I can be a bit dramatic. lol

The thing is. If kernel modules that allow games to creep ring 0 happen, its a security threat to all of Linux not just to people stupid enough to run those modules.
Click to expand...

How

If you don't want it, don't run it

ChadD said:
I would suggest, that would be because they don't understand enough to realize what they would be agreeing to. As I said. Might as well just stay on windows. What is the point of moving to Linux in this scenario? What no co pilot? If the system isn't any more secure, and the game companies are running their key loggers and spy ware on your system anyway. What is the point?

Linux for most peoples hardware setup isn't going to game faster on Linux. (yes we can admit that Linux is only faster if you have fully open hardware which most people just don't) I mean really what is the point of moving to Linux if the advantages of Linux don't exist. I guess to be fair their are more advantages to Linux then just that, but for gamers wanting to play fortenight? I don't see why you switch to compromised Linux to replace windows. Just stay on windows.
Click to expand...

"YOU WILL BE FREE UNDER LINUX BUT ONLY THE WAY I SAY YOU WILL"
 
ChadD said:
Have to say after reading what Epic is saying now that I'm fully awake.
"using existing Linux features including signed kernel, signed kernel modules, and secure boot with attestation."
They can piss off. lol
Go away Epic your not wanted. Their supporting Linux is going to mean Ubuntu. I very much hope Valve says no thanks.
Anyone stupid enough to load a Epic signed kernel module deserves to be rooted by a mornic company bragging about vibe coding a launcher.
Click to expand...
They're using eBPF to verify the kernel isn't tampered with, and you don't need to run specific kernel builds, existing kernel builds simply need to be signed by distro maintainers - Epic are even providing keys maintainers can use to do so. This isn't anticheat using a kernel level driver like Windows, this is a kernel(ish) level implementation that should be quite safe due to the fact it uses eBPF which has numerous advantages over traditional LSM's.

Sure, it's a compromise, but it's the fairest compromise in an attempt to actually tackle the lack of anticheat problem under Linux that I've seen yet. It's waaaay better than being locked to pre built specific kernels or having games locked to certain mobile devices only.

ChadD said:
The thing is. If kernel modules that allow games to creep ring 0 happen, its a security threat to all of Linux not just to people stupid enough to run those modules. Beyond that when it inevitably gets busted wide open (and it WILL) and people either use it to cheat on mass, or worse attack users systems/create bot nets run a little ransomare or some other annoyingly told ya so terrible things. The story won't be "the Linux people said this would happen" it will be see LINUX is pure evil back to Microsoft.
Click to expand...

eBPF runs sandboxed, it also runs a verifier that ensures the code won't crash the kernel and bring the entire OS down with it - I think you're being overly dramatic here. If you don't like it, don't use it. As I've already stated, my system's already fully configured for it. So far I've seen no evidence eBPF is required to be run in unprivileged mode.
 
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socK said:
"YOU WILL BE FREE UNDER LINUX BUT ONLY THE WAY I SAY YOU WILL"
Click to expand...
Guess we'll see if Valve goes along with Sweeney. To me it seems a lot like Sweeney figures if he announces it publicly Valve will feel pressured to go along. I doubt they will.

I am not in favor of broken kernels no. I can see what happens if it comes to pass. It will be a few months before the first major oh no happens, and something headline grabbing bad happens. Then Epic pulls support and says Windows is the only option gamers.

If this was just, we are going to support systems with secure boot enabled. OK. Its the talk about modules. I mean you imagine they are going to want to vibe code those as well? Probably right. :)
 
Mazzspeed said:
They're using eBPC to verify the kernel isn't tampered with, and you don't need to run specific kernel builds, they simply need to be signed by distro maintainers - Epic are even providing keys maintainers can use to do so. This isn't anticheat using a kernel level driver like Windows, this is a kernel(ish) level implementation that should be quite safe due to the fact it uses eBPF which has numerous advantages over traditional LSM's.

Sure, it's a compromise, but it's the fairest compromise in an attempt to actually tackle the lack of anticheat problem under Linux that I've seen yet. It's waaaay better than being locked to pre built specific kernels or having games locked to certain mobile devices only.



eBPF runs sandboxed, it also runs a verifier that ensures the code won't crash the kernel and bring the entire OS down with it - I think you're being overly dramatic here. If you don't like it, don't use it. As I've already stated, my system's already fully configured for it.
Click to expand...
I don't have an issue with the secure boot stuff. THAT isn't all they are proposing here.

" in the very near-term, using existing Linux features including signed kernel, signed kernel modules, and secure boot with attestation."

When Epic Games mentions using "signed kernel modules", it sure sounds like their intention is to introduce a kernel-level anti-cheat module for Linux.

Having said that on doing some more reading they seem to be saying no no no we simply want to lock down all modules. (such as Nvidia drivers) So if your gaming on Ubuntu you are stuck on whatever NV driver they ship >.< Its going to break overclock tools and other legit things people like to use. This is going to cause issues, broken and delayed updates for distros like Bazzite best case.

Guess we'll see where this goes. I expect Ubutnu and Fedora to be on board. Bazzite probably by osmosis though I do believe supporting this could back fire on them potentially. Maybe. Gamers are not on mass technically minded.
I do wonder if Valve is going to come out and say anything publicly on this. I can't see them being down. :)
 
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Mazzspeed said:
eBPF runs sandboxed, it also runs a verifier that ensures the code won't crash the kernel and bring the entire OS down with it - I think you're being overly dramatic here. If you don't like it, don't use it. As I've already stated, my system's already fully configured for it. So far I've seen no evidence eBPF is required to be run in unprivileged mode.
Click to expand...
Your an NV users aren't you?
I know you have used cachy... this isn't going to run on cachy.
If you are running fedora or ubuntu... are you running their signed official NV driver. If your not this isn't going to work for you either.

I don't know maybe my understanding is off. Its not impossible. :) As I understand what I'm reading if they are locking images to their signed modules. That means everyone on Ubutnu is stuck on a pretty old NV driver. Maybe they'll figure that out.

For what its worth this is one of the hiccups I forsee being a bit issue here. Linux already pisses off Nvidia users. What Epic seems to be proposing is going to only make that worse. Imagine a zero day NV game day driver dropping to fix a launch day bug. Your going to have to break your EAC image to run it. Valve hasn't went down these roads for exactly this reason.
 
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Reading through the Phoronix thread on it, it sounds like the CachyOS maintainers have reached out to epic about it because they're interested in it and waiting on a response.
 
ChadD said:
Your an NV users aren't you?
I know you have used cachy... this isn't going to run on cachy.
If you are running fedora or ubuntu... are you running their signed official NV driver. If your not this isn't going to work for you either.

I don't know maybe my understanding is off. Its not impossible. :) As I understand what I'm reading if they are locking images to their signed modules. That means everyone on Ubutnu is stuck on a pretty old NV driver. Maybe they'll figure that out.
Click to expand...

Cachy appears to have already reached out to Epic FYI
 
ChadD said:
When Epic Games mentions using "signed kernel modules", it sure sounds like their intention is to introduce a kernel-level anti-cheat module for Linux.
Click to expand...

Realistically? All Linux kernel modules/drivers should be signed, Linux should have supported secure boot 100% OOTB 10 years ago. A signed kernel is not a locked down kernel, lets make that distinction clear.

ChadD said:
I know you have used cachy... this isn't going to run on cachy.
Click to expand...

I run KDE Neon on my main PC, and yesterday I got it all configured 100% to support EAC v2, including backing up my BIOS settings and updating my BIOS to support the new SB keys (something I've been putting off for quite some time now). From start to finish the whole process was quite painless and I'm running signed Nvidia drivers. Also, CachyOS devs have already reached out to EGS in relation to signing their kernels.

EDIT: The Nvidia 595 latest production branch drivers are already signed by Canonical and ready to go. I'm sure Ubuntu will start signing all drivers in their repo's with the advent of EAC v2, it's really not that big a deal.
 
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socK said:
Cachy appears to have already reached out to Epic FYI
Click to expand...
I do hope they don't hear anything good. I really don't want to distro hop again.
I imagine the Cachy devs will remember cachy isn't actually a gaming distro. ;)
 
socK said:
Cachy appears to have already reached out to Epic FYI
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Asking about intentions and possibilities. Isn't the same as implementing.
I don't expect Cachy will be implementing this at all but we'll see. End of the day cachy isn't really a gaming distro, it just games well. What Epic is talking about will make cachy as most people know it unworkable. Cachy pushes kernel updates every few days, NV drivers are not held... nor are other modules. Things like Binder and ZFS file system modules are default built into cachy kernels.
It is possible they consider offering a "Epic" kernel that is specifically oked. BUT I can hear the QQ now when NV releases a new driver and Cachy says well that is going to have to wait for the Epic build.
 
ChadD said:
I do hope they don't hear anything good. I really don't want to distro hop again.
I imagine the Cachy devs will remember cachy isn't actually a gaming distro. ;)
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So you're against signed kernels/drivers? I honestly don't see any negatives regarding either, no one's forcing you to enable secure boot. If you don't like EAC v2, don't play titles that use it, you've still got choices.

ChadD said:
BUT I can hear the QQ now when NV releases a new driver and Cachy says well that is going to have to wait for the Epic build.
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Nvidia drivers under CachyOS are already precompiled. If Epic are providing the keys to sign both kernels and Nvidia drivers, surely it's within the realm of possibility regarding CachyOS maintainers to do so under the default kernel? If a driver's already part of the kernel, I still can't see the issue?
 
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erek said:
they got kernel level anti cheat on linux?
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No, and they never will. Trust kernel code from a vibe-coding linux hater? I'll bleach my eyeballs first.

What they *do* have is a tacit backtracking on the "kernel anticheats are the only way" nonsense they've been peddling, now that Linux has growing marketshare and they locked themselves out with their big mouths.
 
Forge said:
No, and they never will. Trust kernel code from a vibe-coding linux hater? I'll bleach my eyeballs first.

What they *do* have is a tacit backtracking on the "kernel anticheats are the only way" nonsense they've been peddling, now that Linux has growing marketshare and they locked themselves out with their big mouths.
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What are you talking about?

It doesn't run in usermode. eBPF can still monitor process creation, see all file access, read arbitrary process memory, hook syscalls, and a million other things.

Just because it has a tighter blast radius doesn't mean it isn't incredibly privileged and powerful.

It doesn't need to look for things happening by sitting there polling and praying you see something like usermode, it can literally intercept the underlying event in the kernel.
 
Mazzspeed said:
Nvidia drivers under CachyOS are already precompiled. If Epic are providing the keys to sign both kernels and Nvidia drivers, surely it's within the realm of possibility regarding CachyOS maintainers to do so under the default kernel? If a driver's already part of the kernel, I still can't see the issue?
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You think This is happening on a sometimes 2-3 times a week basis?
Epics plan may be ok for a distro that doesn't update often.
 
ChadD said:
You think This is happening on a sometimes 2-3 times a week basis?
Epics plan may be ok for a distro that doesn't update often.
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It would be automatic... it would be handled in CICD...

Do you think some dude is having to get out of bed at 4am to sign Nvidia drivers?
 
ChadD said:
You think This is happening on a sometimes 2-3 times a week basis?
Epics plan may be ok for a distro that doesn't update often.
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I'm still not seeing any real compelling evidence it isn't possible.

socK said:
What are you talking about?

It doesn't run in usermode. eBPF can still monitor process creation, see all file access, read arbitrary process memory, hook syscalls, and a million other things.

Just because it has a tighter blast radius doesn't mean it isn't incredibly privileged and powerful.

It doesn't need to look for things happening by sitting there polling and praying you see something like usermode, it can literally intercept the underlying event in the kernel.
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I don't believe EAC v2 is as outright invasive as kernel level anticheat under Windows using kernel level drivers, I believe this implementation is the most realistic compromise I've seen so far in an attempt to tackle the kernel level anti cheat problem under Linux. Yes, it's going to involve security compromises that we pray can be kept secure; but you still have choices available to you, no one's forcing people to play games that utilize it.

As stated, I've already got my KDE Neon system configured and ready to go, I press power on the PC and it goes burrr as normal.

EDIT: At least Epic are on the ball in tackling the problem and being quite open about it and willing to work with everyone from Valve to all willing companies in the industry to implement a viable solution to kernel level AC under Linux, EA advertised for coders to implement such a solution about 12 months ago and I've yet to see anything even remotely approaching a viable solution from that horrid company. Which blows my mind because it's...Epic of all things coming up with solutions to problems under Linux.
 
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socK said:
It would be automatic... it would be handled in CICD...

Do you think some dude is having to get out of bed at 4am to sign Nvidia drivers?
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If it works as seamless as you guys want to believe. I'll admit I'm wrong.
 
ChadD said:
If it works as seamless as you guys want to believe. I'll admit I'm wrong.
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Chad, desktop Linux can't avoid secure boot forever. The fact Linux users are running their systems with secure boot disabled in this day and age is somewhat embarrassing.
 
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