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Apple intros MacBook Neo: $599 with an iPhone chip

KazeoHin said:
To Microsoft, the cries of unhappiness from small-time, less-than-trillion-dollar companies like Dell, HP etc. is like a mosquito buzzing in the ear of an elephant. Microsoft receives more money from AI investment in the time it takes to read an email than HP gives Microsoft in a quarter.
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Less than trillion because a lot of what they do is low margin, because a lot of the value is captured by Microsoft.

Dell/HP/Lenovo is the door to have a vast Microsoft userbase, yes the windows Keys sales is maybe just 5% of microsoft business, but how much retention of the O365, Azure, etc... upsell get away in a pure Apple/Linux world, how many people go out to buy a microsoft license and install windows on those computer if they did not come pre-installed.

There is a reason that:
https://www.tomshardware.com/softwa...ions-to-reduce-os-memory-footprint-have-begun

going away from web-browser UI to something native being a big part of this
 
KazeoHin said:
To Microsoft, the cries of unhappiness from small-time, less-than-trillion-dollar companies like Dell, HP etc. is like a mosquito buzzing in the ear of an elephant. Microsoft receives more money from AI investment in the time it takes to read an email than HP gives Microsoft in a quarter.

And on top of that: any company built on Entra ID, Microsoft 365, Windows etc. isn't going to switch unless the cost of re-training, cancelling windows-specific subscriptions, completely re-tuning their network is less than what they'd save in hardware costs in the financial year. Microsoft has you by the balls, and they know it. They can fart out a minimum-viable-product and the only financial choice is to pay them for it.
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This is another reason why the MacBook Neo is so dangerous for Microsoft. It's not just kids and students who start on Macs and never touch Windows at home; it's businesses that were already on the edge and are just frustrated enough that they drift toward more platform-agnostic solutions, including Mac clients. Microsoft's nightmare isn't that people use Entra ID and Microsoft 365 on Macs; it's that the Macs are the gateways to cutting Microsoft out of the loop entirely.
 
Lakados said:
But Dell is very upset about how poorly Windows 11 works on budget hardware because it is hurting their sales.

So I fully believe that Microsoft will fix Windows 11 performance, probably just call it Windows 12 to escape the stigma. but it won't be because of Gamers or enthusiasts; it will be because Dell, HP, and Lenovo are having too difficult a time selling hardware at consumer-friendly prices.
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I don't think it's the performance they should be worried about, but the crap they put in Windows 11 to annoy people. It just so happens that crap is also causing a loss in performance.
Lakados said:
If PC's start shipping without Windows, that hurts Xbox, and Investors won't like that.
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Xbox is already dead so I don't see how this will make things worse?
So yes, at some level Microsoft can tell the OEM's to suck rocks, but it could have lasting implications down the line, especially with the EU already looking for reasons to ditch Windows and O365.

It's just not a move I think Microsoft should make, and I am sure at some level they know that too.
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Microsoft will ignore this because they're benefiting investors. You're thinking 3 years down the road while Microsoft thinks quarterly.
 
DukenukemX said:
Microsoft will ignore this because they're benefiting investors. You're thinking 3 years down the road while Microsoft thinks quarterly.
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Microsoft, like all giant 40+ years old corporation have different horizon for different things, some people at Microsoft think 5-10-15 years down the road.

https://news.microsoft.com/source/features/innovation/majorana-2-microsoft-discovery-agentic-ai/
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/generative-ai-and-nuclear-energy-1.7362127

A company would never have a quarterly 36 billion capex if they were thinking quarterly. They would not make extremely long play to pay off like DirectX (starting to lock gamer into windows, ~3 years later), let people (specially kids) pirate their product so much so years later when they enter the workforce they are used to it already, pushing workplace to use them.

It does not benefit Microsoft investor that much for WIndows 11 UI to use browser engine so much and require giant amount of memory, I do not want to talk about other investor than me, but I do not think that at all. Same for the file explorer and native search feature to be so bad.
 
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DukenukemX said:
Xbox is already dead so I don't see how this will make things worse?
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Xbox may be dead or at least dying, but Microsoft has spent billions trying to build up its publishing capabilities and its IP pools. They will shed the dead weight and try to turn their platform into the Netflix of games. If they can keep their staff working 24/7, churning out multiple 7/10 games in 1-2 years instead of 6+ while making those games available on Steam, PlayStation, Epic, and others, in addition to whatever they call their subscription service, they can call that a win. Even if their console gets discontinued and becomes a certification for 3rd-party OEMs (ex instead of buying an Xbox, you buy a PC, laptop, or Handheld that is Xbox-certified), investors will praise them.
I fully believe Microsoft is trying to leverage AI and bring in enough talent that they won't need to contract out development; they'll create internal departments and assign development work for each game internally, so those divisions can just bounce between work for a dozen different games being pushed out by a dozen different internal teams.
So no individual studios, just Microsoft.
 
DukenukemX said:
Microsoft will ignore this because they're benefiting investors. You're thinking 3 years down the road while Microsoft thinks quarterly.
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Microsoft can afford to ignore this in the short term, but Dell, HP, Lenovo, and others can't.
That may be fine for O365 and the data centers, but it would not be good for Windows.
Short-term, that may not be an issue, but if Microsoft keeps burning bridges, things will shift; if they burn too many, they may not have any roads left to backtrack on.

I'm sure they have people there that realize this, big question is are they high enough up the ladder to make a change or not, because alternatives are coming.
 
Lakados said:
Xbox may be dead or at least dying, but Microsoft has spent billions trying to build up its publishing capabilities and its IP pools. They will shed the dead weight and try to turn their platform into the Netflix of games.
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Netflix of games doesn't work for GamePass, and we've seen it play out badly multiple times. Hi-Fi Rush was a quality game but it was on gamepass and it's not the kind of game you'll play twice so nobody bought it. Doom Dark Ages was also on GamePass, and it's also another game that you won't play twice. The question comes down to does Microsoft want $70 for a game or $15. The answer is clearly $300 million.
If they can keep their staff working 24/7, churning out multiple 7/10 games in 1-2 years instead of 6+ while making those games available on Steam, PlayStation, Epic, and others, in addition to whatever they call their subscription service, they can call that a win.
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Except you'd turn out slop. Games are art and pushing developers to pump out games 24/7 would create slop 24/7 and nobody would play them. There's a reason why Hideo Kojima carries a lot of value. Just look at RARE.
I fully believe Microsoft is trying to leverage AI and bring in enough talent that they won't need to contract out development; they'll create internal departments and assign development work for each game internally, so those divisions can just bounce between work for a dozen different games being pushed out by a dozen different internal teams.
So no individual studios, just Microsoft.
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I wish Microsoft luck with that. Reality is that anyone with talent will leave and make their our studios, which will also eventually get bought out. It's a vicious cycle.
 
Lakados said:
Microsoft can afford to ignore this in the short term, but Dell, HP, Lenovo, and others can't.
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That there lies the problem because eventually OEM's may jump on Linux. They'll try to avoid such an idea because Linux does bring it's own set of problems, but if they can get a Linux distro to work trouble free for users then Windows is in trouble.
I'm sure they have people there that realize this, big question is are they high enough up the ladder to make a change or not, because alternatives are coming.
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I'd imagine there's a lot of hubris in Microsoft. You'd think there's people that realize this but I believe they think they know what's best for their customers.
 
DukenukemX said:
Netflix of games doesn't work for GamePass, and we've seen it play out badly multiple times. Hi-Fi Rush was a quality game but it was on gamepass and it's not the kind of game you'll play twice so nobody bought it. Doom Dark Ages was also on GamePass, and it's also another game that you won't play twice. The question comes down to does Microsoft want $70 for a game or $15. The answer is clearly $300 million.
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I mean Netflix, HBO, Disney, etc they all seem to be able to make this model work, so if it works for movies and TV, then I am sure you can make it work for games too. But it certainly doesn't work when it takes 400 million and 7 years to make a 6/10 title.
Take the new Fable as an example: no way that is selling the 7 million copies it needs to break even, even in a world without Game Pass. That is something they should have been able to bang out in 2 years, maybe 3.
But game studios have been captured by Hollywood; they are spending more time on motion capture and union voice actors creating movies that include a game than they are on games that have a story, it's not sustainable and I suspect that Microsoft sees that as clear as day.
Because if 7 years and 400 million nets you a solid 6/10, then something dramatically needs to change, and the answer isn't more time or larger budgets.
 
Lakados said:
I mean Netflix, HBO, Disney, etc they all seem to be able to make this model work, so if it works for movies and TV, then I am sure you can make it work for games too.
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It doesn't work unless the game is only good to play once, like most movies and TV shows. Good games tend to have replay value, but mediocre and bad games are barely playable once. Not to forget that movies tend to be sold for $25 or less on physical media, while a game today cost $70.
But it certainly doesn't work when it takes 400 million and 7 years to make a 6/10 title.
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It doesn't work when companies believe they're the only ones producing games. The reality is that just like modern media that a lot of it is democratized. People can make their own games now.

View: https://youtu.be/J1IgKgNbVyI?si=24CVYocu9hF1H90T
Take the new Fable as an example: no way that is selling the 7 million copies it needs to break even, even in a world without Game Pass. That is something they should have been able to bang out in 2 years, maybe 3.
But game studios have been captured by Hollywood; they are spending more time on motion capture and union voice actors creating movies that include a game than they are on games that have a story, it's not sustainable and I suspect that Microsoft sees that as clear as day.
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Because Hollywood is failing for the same reasons, because they want to manufacture media. Haven't you noticed that we're remastering games like Hollywood does reboots?
Because if 7 years and 400 million nets you a solid 6/10, then something dramatically needs to change, and the answer isn't more time or larger budgets.
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Look at From Software and Larian Studios where their games disrupted the industry. They're not publicly traded and therefore can focus more on making quality games. Microsoft's mistake is they think this can just be pumped out like bad software, but it can't. Mina is a good example where it's a very popular game for $20 that will make Yacht Club plenty of money. SilkSong sold millions and likely made three Australians very rich, while for Microsoft this wouldn't be enough money to get into Epstein Island 2.

Going back to Windows, the only reason Windows still exists as an OS is because of their game library. If Microsoft screws that up somehow, then MacOS has a shot in taking real market share. The other saving grace for Windows is that Apple's new M-series chips are not as good at gaming as AMD's, Intel's, and Nvidia's hardware. I have no idea what the performance of the M6 is like, but if it's anything close to what a Ryzen X3D and Nova Lake's Big Last Level Cache (bLLC) then Windows is in big trouble. As it stands even Linux running on X86 hardware is not as good as Windows in gaming performance. If Apple were to seriously invest in gaming both in hardware and software then Microsoft would again be in serious trouble.
 
NuclearNotebook has a late but extremely thorough technically-oriented review of the MacBook Neo, and they like it — with a nice retort to that supposed SSD drama in the comments.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQyG9OLpvmI

The comment:

Yes, we are aware of another channel's recent clickbait video on the Neo's SSD lifespan and recommend disregarding it as nonsense. Their Neo did not write 900GB of swap in 3 hours while browsing the web; third-party software is well known to overreport on SSD writes in Apple silicon Macs to the point of failing even the most rudimentary sanity check, a concept that seems lost on some content creators.

In short, the Neo will last a long time. Don't take "get scared" videos at face value.
 
Shoganai said:
They are. Have you ever used one?
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We've had this discussion before and the Neo has no cooling. It's so bad that people have guides on how to cool them.
b0k5vg.jpg
 
DukenukemX said:
We've had this discussion before and the Neo has no cooling. It's so bad that people have guides on how to cool them.
View attachment 824268
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No, it doesn't have any fans ... much like the MacBook Air ... and yet these things stay cooler than 90% of Windows laptops with fans. This is due to the passive cooling and massive efficiency of Apple's M-series chips. So no ... you haven't used any of Apple's fanless laptops.
 
DukenukemX said:
We've had this discussion before and the Neo has no cooling. It's so bad that people have guides on how to cool them.
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And if you watch the review I shared, you'll know that it doesn't matter in practice and that you're actually messing with the system by pushing higher voltages. Skip to around the 19-minute mark if you want to get into it.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Wait, so it's worse than the MacBook Air? My M1 never gets hot, as far as I can tell. Ugh.
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The Neo draws 9W at most, more often 5W. And remember, the A18 Pro has already been in much tighter confines (the iPhone 16 Pro) without failing. It's wild that people will act like Apple didn't test the system under load... or that a $699 13-inch laptop would be used for long media encodes and intensive gaming.
 
Aurelius said:
The Neo draws 9W at most, more often 5W. And remember, the A18 Pro has already been in much tighter confines (the iPhone 16 Pro) without failing. It's wild that people will act like Apple didn't test the system under load... or that a $699 13-inch laptop would be used for long media encodes and intensive gaming.
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Diclaimer: happy owner of an M2 MacBook Air who's never wanted it to be more than it is.

And the Neo will attempt to do those things with two big cores and four little ones anyway. The math is pretty similar to what the Apple Silicon Airs do with passive cooling. That cooling is usually sufficient to allow a single big core to engage in sustained work without much throttling, and for all cores to manage in bursty work typical of light desktop workloads. Hooked up to a dock it will do a lot very effectively even if it's not a patch on the M2 Max Studio I snagged a couple of years back. But it is a great balance between power efficiency and short term capability. The A18 Pro chip is small and dissipates heat at least as well as the M2 in my experience. If I weren't unemployed I'd have snagged a Neo for my daughter's birthday without a second thought - she doesn't need a machine that can visualize seismic data in realtime, she just needs a basic computer. And it absolutely fits that bill better than any Windows laptop within a $400 difference that I've looked up.
 
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