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X Safety Team: We Have Uncovered 200,000 Bots and Fake Accounts Created by Chinese Intelligence to Propagandize Against Data Farms
- Thread starter rinaldo00
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2009
- Messages
- 1,931
lmao, how about the millions of other bots that push all sorts of other propaganda?
oh, right, those bots push pro-epstein class bullshit, so x pushes them on your feed!
oh, right, those bots push pro-epstein class bullshit, so x pushes them on your feed!
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2007
- Messages
- 14,294
Fuck all the bots, but also fuck social media.
M76
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2012
- Messages
- 15,385
They are retarded, they flagged my account as a bot too, and locked me out.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2016
- Messages
- 710
Perfect! While we're clearing all those dumbass trees in the national parks we can feed them through a wood chipper and make a bonus one-time profit of pennies on the dollar! Let's GO!!My opinion, you need to build data centers, that's what Deserts and National Parks are for. Who's with me?Seriously: China, thanks for the Assist on this one. Who's ready for brownouts........
(I'd add an "/s", but there's probably some rich bastards in DC working on this idea right now
)Wait till they read the report that shows Whale Oil is really the ideal cooling medium for these server farms.......they can market it as Environmentally Friendly and Organically sourced...someone ring Japan, they know a bit about this.....Perfect! While we're clearing all those dumbass trees in the national parks we can feed them through a wood chipper and make a bonus one-time profit of pennies on the dollar! Let's GO!!
(I'd add an "/s", but there's probably some rich bastards in DC working on this idea right now
And Chairman (for Life) Xi Shin Ping wants harmony with us. /s /s
DukenukemX
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2005
- Messages
- 11,500
They think we're stupid. It's the US government making propaganda about China making propaganda about Data Centers. Who in their right mind wants data centers near them, driving up cost of electricity to use AI to shift through data from Flock cameras? Whenever I hear about China and Russia, I immediately think it's US propaganda. It isn't China and Russia paying hundreds of millions of dollars to send bots across the internet.
westrock2000
[H]F Junkie
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2005
- Messages
- 9,645
If you look at the general motivation of the vocally resistive, its that anything related to production is "not in my backyard" and to encourage a generally unproductive lifestyle (in multiple meanings of the word). No high output power generation. No factories. No resource gathering. No computing. And we should all strive to have easy jobs with free <insert anything> provided by <anyone making more than me>.
If you are culture known for being passive and non-aggressive and you want to unseat a culture that is among the most aggressive in human history to take your place as the rightful superpower of the world.....how do you do it? The easiest answer is by making the target society destroy itself from the inside out. It will take a while, perhaps 3 or 4 generations, but thankfully your culture is also known for long term strategies. Convince a population they are too good for all that laborious stuff and they will destroy the government for you.
And no one is calling for the end of using websites hosted at data centers. ChatGPT, Claude, Grok aren't loosing customers. But there is this push to say all the things that make it possible (computer, energy, raw materials) don't do it in the west...just let it magically happen appear out of no where.
I have recently done an experiment where I use a utility that converts my replies for social media into using characters that visually look like english characters, but are using expanded UTF-8 characters. So to a human, it would make no difference, but to a low effort A.I. it doesn't see matching word patterns to respond to. I have noticed when I leave comments on YouTube in that style I get very very low engagement. But if I put the same comments on the same usual channels I get blasted with various talking points, or "you should do the work" type comments. The fun upside to this is that you can post all the bad words that are problematic usually censored.
There is a joke that says to the effect "The good guys always win the wars, it says so right here in the history book". It's a funny joke on the surface, but the more you think about it, the more terrifying it becomes. Scott Adams had a philosophy that anything that involves a lot of money or a lot of power, you should expect cheating to happen. Because there is too much on the line not to. I would expect some cheating to be happening when it comes to shaping the hearts and minds of the citizens around the world.
If you are culture known for being passive and non-aggressive and you want to unseat a culture that is among the most aggressive in human history to take your place as the rightful superpower of the world.....how do you do it? The easiest answer is by making the target society destroy itself from the inside out. It will take a while, perhaps 3 or 4 generations, but thankfully your culture is also known for long term strategies. Convince a population they are too good for all that laborious stuff and they will destroy the government for you.
And no one is calling for the end of using websites hosted at data centers. ChatGPT, Claude, Grok aren't loosing customers. But there is this push to say all the things that make it possible (computer, energy, raw materials) don't do it in the west...just let it magically happen appear out of no where.
I have recently done an experiment where I use a utility that converts my replies for social media into using characters that visually look like english characters, but are using expanded UTF-8 characters. So to a human, it would make no difference, but to a low effort A.I. it doesn't see matching word patterns to respond to. I have noticed when I leave comments on YouTube in that style I get very very low engagement. But if I put the same comments on the same usual channels I get blasted with various talking points, or "you should do the work" type comments. The fun upside to this is that you can post all the bad words that are problematic usually censored.
There is a joke that says to the effect "The good guys always win the wars, it says so right here in the history book". It's a funny joke on the surface, but the more you think about it, the more terrifying it becomes. Scott Adams had a philosophy that anything that involves a lot of money or a lot of power, you should expect cheating to happen. Because there is too much on the line not to. I would expect some cheating to be happening when it comes to shaping the hearts and minds of the citizens around the world.
nthexwn
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2007
- Messages
- 147
I've always been in a weird place politically. I'm liberal, but I love engineering, technology, industry, and infrastructure. It's no different this time. I think data centers are cool (pun!), but I'm not allowed to tell my friends that.
It would be nice if they'd invest in proper closed-loop refrigeration systems instead of simply dumping water on their stuff and letting it evaporate. That's really my only complaint. Oh, and our power grid sucks. Let's upgrade that instead of complaining that we have to! Fuck all that oil lobbying and let the engineers build amazing new nuclear reactors please!
It would be nice if they'd invest in proper closed-loop refrigeration systems instead of simply dumping water on their stuff and letting it evaporate. That's really my only complaint. Oh, and our power grid sucks. Let's upgrade that instead of complaining that we have to! Fuck all that oil lobbying and let the engineers build amazing new nuclear reactors please!
The water is mostly to increase efficiency. They spray it on the condenser coils of their air conditioners. A lot of data centers are actually wet/dry - they switch from spraying water in summer to dry mode in winter. The bigger problem is power grids and how the cost of increasing capacity is often handled. It's often spread across everyone on a chunk of the grid. That's what's getting people mad. Some datacenter plugs in, sucks a ton of power, now the local utility has to buy more power, and the system is getting squeezed so rates are going up.
I'm not against data centers, I just don't like when they don't pay for their impacts on everyone else. So build all you like, just pay for the generating capacity too and don't build water guzzling models in areas that don't have plenty of water. Datacenters don't technically need water at all. Does your home AC use water? No, right? Using a bunch of water just makes them use less electricity. There are some that use liquid to liquid heat exchangers, but those are built next to a river, lake, etc. Lots of power plants do this too.
One other problem - a lot of datacenters are built cheap and they're stupid loud. They don't have to be. It just costs more. It's analogous to "cheaper to run a Delta screaming at 10000rpm on a 120mm radiator than it is to buy 3 Noctuas and a 360mm rad." The company I work for built a "Cadillac" datacenter ~ 20 years ago. Ours is quiet. Twice as much power, cooling and diesel generating capacity as we need, plus backups for all that with 2x capacity. It was built where it is partly because the big boss at the time wanted it close to his house. There's a Meta datacenter across the street. Maybe once upon a time you could hear our datacenter from the street. Not anymore. The Meta datacenter went the 10k rpm delta route, so now all you hear is the Meta datacenter across the street. Of course they have totally different design philosophies. Ours is basically "downtime is not acceptable" while the Meta datacenter is just another node in a network. So Meta went cheap and the neighbors don't like it.
Same anti-datacenter people and types are the same ones we have to thank for no nuclear power/nuclear build out in the past and the power problems related to datacenters now
There's also the problem of people conflating actual crypto mining farms/operations (yes those still exist and new ones still get built) with datacenters - the whine from all the GPUs from coin mining operations is specifically what you can hear in a lot of videos blaming 'datacenter noise' from the uninformed - also ones where it's mysteriously just smack dab in the middle of a neighborhood - odds are that's a crypto farm
There's also the problem of people conflating actual crypto mining farms/operations (yes those still exist and new ones still get built) with datacenters - the whine from all the GPUs from coin mining operations is specifically what you can hear in a lot of videos blaming 'datacenter noise' from the uninformed - also ones where it's mysteriously just smack dab in the middle of a neighborhood - odds are that's a crypto farm
Well I will say that AI datacenters can be noisy:
If you can hear the actual GPUs, they whine just like crypto mining. Thin servers with small fans run fast. The PSU fans in particular are usually tiny n' whiny. We have a bunch of AI research servers in the DC next to me at work and they whine loudly when loaded (which is basically all the time). Now I would assume that most DCs are built with thick enough walls you don't hear that (I can only hear it because I'm right next to them) but of course there has been a lot of cost cutting going on. Facebook has been literally putting some of theirs in tents. Bet you can hear those.
However the real loud noise, and what I expect people are complaining about, is gas-turbine generators. Any DC worth its salt with have generators, be they massive marine diesel units or natural gas turbines, for emergency power. You rarely hear them except if they are testing, or power happens to go out. However again, lots of BS with the AI datacenters and they want to build before utilities are ready to power them. So they are running on-site power 24/7 using these. THAT you are going to hear, and hear a lot. They are fuck loud and nothing really can be done about it.
While I'm sure some of the shit people are mad about is crypto mining, since that is always built as cheap as possible, there's plenty of new AI DCs that make people mad. Those are also often being built cheap, and the real issue is they are being built fast and having to generate their own power. Like we don't have a big DC in our building but the emergency generator is still pretty fucking loud, and it is only a 250kW diesel, still using a truck-sized engine at that point. So think a large semi rev'd all the way up. The larger DC on campus has a much bigger one, it is a large marine sized diesel and holy shit. It's like 1.5MW I think and has a bigass 16-cylinder engine and it is dangerous to get near to it without hearing protection when running. It would in no way be allowed to run all the time with the noise it makes.
Those are just single generators, and usually the diesel ones aren't as loud as the turbines. The gigafucker DCs for AI have a bunch, some of them like 60+ and have more than half running at any time. That is going to be loud as fuck.
Crypto operations also have and use generators - and (modern AI specifically) datacenter server GPUs are often fanless, and use water-cooling for servers and GPUS - or even older but still server grade GPUs that are not water cooled are still fanless, and use the system/node fans for airflow (and yes those are loud, why I don't use enterprise equipment at home
) - there are datacenter GPUs with blower fans/cooling - but they are not found really when doing at scale like AI/modern datacenters - really for the one off or not large scale nodes/systemsI'd bet money a large majority (not all, but a majority, and vastly the majority) of 'problem datacenters' are really crypto operations
The big noise maker I'm most familiar with is that datacenter I was talking about owned by Meta. Aka Facebook. It's in a Chicago suburb, and it's quite loud. No, not the fans on the GPUs or servers or any other stuff coming out of a server rack. It's the chillers on the outside of the building. They run at high speed and use a relatively small surface area. They're cheap and loud. Meta/Facebook rolled in and zucked the neighbors with their noise.