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Horizon Hunters Gathering (Horizon online co-op)

M76 said:
Actually it is a good thing that it is a live service if it is crap. Because I know someone somewhere always draws the conclusion that single player games are just not popular, when a crap single player game fails. But somehow that never happens with live services.
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I feel it is way more the opposite we see in discourse, single player games fail every single weeks, no one draws much conclusion, when a live service one do, a lot of ink about it.

I am not sure either opinion exist, single player game are of course quite popular and live service games are of course really popular, the notion that EA sport FC, battlefield, call of duty, Robox, gta online, counter strike 2, minecraft, fornight, giant swat of mobile games that are made to be forever game that have post sales moneytisation available are not popular would be just strange, the giant revenue and hours played speak for itself.

M76 said:
No, jason, it's not a "live service" struggle it is a "modern audience" struggle.

The only thing I hate more than live service games are lying games "journalists".
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If it a modern audience struggle and not being a proven gameplay for live service IP at all here, I am not sure why they would turn it from Live service to co-op multiplayer ?

That would make more sense if they just cancelled the project all together.
 
M76 said:
Actually it is a good thing that it is a live service if it is crap. Because I know someone somewhere always draws the conclusion that single player games are just not popular, when a crap single player game fails. But somehow that never happens with live services.
Click to expand...

shocker right?...to think that if a game is not good that people might not like it...blaming it on nonsense when the game is just not very good...yet when a game is successful despite any apparent lesbians/gays/trans/minorities in it like Cyberpunk or LoU 2 then those same folk try to change the narrative by saying it didn't sell as well as the studio's previous game etc...a good movie or video game will still be good no matter if it has those 'modern audience' tropes that frighten you so much...no matter if it's on Epic Store vs Steam etc

games, movies, TV series don't fail based on DEI casting etc...it fails because of the quality of the story, engaging characters etc...the upcoming Prime Video Blade Runner 2099 series has cast a trans actor to play the main lead...of course the usual folk will blame that if the series fails...you will for sure not watch it (or pretend to not watch it)
 
M76 said:
Actually it is a good thing that it is a live service if it is crap. Because I know someone somewhere always draws the conclusion that single player games are just not popular, when a crap single player game fails. But somehow that never happens with live services.
Click to expand...

That would be pretty naive to think. Most live service games flop. They're probably the hardest games to be successful. Single player games should be easier to make. Marketing is not as important, you don't have to worry about cheaters/anti cheat, you don't need to worry about a constant development plan 2-4 years down the road, you don't need constant engagement to keep players coming back, everything online related, etc. People always look to the big successes like WoW but forget the majority fail. I think there are a lot more live service flops than single player flops. Live service games either do extremely well or die right away.
 
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Flogger23m said:
That would be pretty naive to think. Most live service games flop. They're probably the hardest games to be successful.
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It's not naive, it is tunnel vision / sunken cost fallacy. You see CEOs and "analysts" try to conclude that single player games are dead when a single player title flops, but they never do that when a live service game is DOA (blame the format instead of the quality of the game)
Flogger23m said:
Single player games should be easier to make. Marketing is not as important, you don't have to worry about cheaters/anti cheat, you don't need to worry about a constant development plan 2-4 years down the road, you don't need constant engagement to keep players coming back, everything online related, etc. People always look to the big successes like WoW but forget the majority fail. I think there are a lot more live service flops than single player flops. Live service games either do extremely well or die right away.
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You don't have to convince me.
 
polonyc2 said:
shocker right?...to think that if a game is not good that people might not like it...blaming it on nonsense when the game is just not very good...yet when a game is successful despite any apparent lesbians/gays/trans/minorities in it like Cyberpunk or LoU 2 then those same folk try to change the narrative by saying it didn't sell as well as the studio's previous game etc...a good movie or video game will still be good no matter if it has those 'modern audience' tropes that frighten you so much...no matter if it's on Epic Store vs Steam etc

games, movies, TV series don't fail based on DEI casting etc...it fails because of the quality of the story, engaging characters etc...the upcoming Prime Video Blade Runner 2099 series has cast a trans actor to play the main lead...of course the usual folk will blame that if the series fails...you will for sure not watch it (or pretend to not watch it)
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Why is DEI and woke hated? Because the games made with that as a driving force are usually terrible. You unintentionally stumbled upon the crux of the problem.
 
M76 said:
Why is DEI and woke hated? Because the games made with that as a driving force are usually terrible. You unintentionally stumbled upon the crux of the problem.
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it's not universally hated...that's like saying mustard is hated or everyone hates Phantom Menace...it's a subjective opinion formed by a group of people who go online and talk about it to death giving the impression that it's a lot bigger then it actually is
 
LukeTbk said:
I feel it is way more the opposite we see in discourse, single player games fail every single weeks, no one draws much conclusion, when a live service one do, a lot of ink about it.
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I'm not talking about internet discourse, but the people actually pulling the strings of game development. When a single player game underperforms they often pivot to making a multiplayer game. Or even when it is successful. But you rarely if ever see them pivoting from an online multiplayer game to single player.
LukeTbk said:
If it a modern audience struggle and not being a proven gameplay for live service IP at all here, I am not sure why they would turn it from Live service to co-op multiplayer ?
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The gameplay is a modern audience struggle. Being live service changes little in the core gameplay loop. They weren't testing the live service part, but the core gameplay loop presumably.
LukeTbk said:
That would make more sense if they just cancelled the project all together.
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Yes it would make more sense if they just canceled it altogether, but they still can, or maybe this is a complete reset in the guise of a small change in direction.
 
polonyc2 said:
it's not universally hated...that's like saying mustard is hated or everyone hates Phantom Menace...it's a subjective opinion formed by a group of people who go online and talk about it to death giving the impression that it's a lot bigger then it actually is
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I mean you clearly seem to love it and fight for its honor for some strange reason. If mustard was hated by as many people as DEI, it would've been dropped by every food chain from every recipe.

Only two types of people love (or pretend to love) DEI, contrarians and activists. Which one are you?
 
This game is as good as cancelled. For a tiny amount of that money they could have given Killzone Shadow Fall a PS5 patch to sharpen it up.

ChatGPT estimates they’ve spent up to 230 million on this game so far. Even if they manage to salvage the assets to make a co-op game/sp game, there’s now way they’re making back that money, or the extra they’d need to spend to convert it.

Without a change in the writing team, I don’t see Horizon 3 performing well and will be the death of the studio. 2 already tarnished the brand, the LEGO game did poorly and the live service was so poorly received its being gutted and probably binned.

They should really think about going back to the Killzone brand and replacing all of their modern audience writers with people with actual talent. And also fire the people responsible for the bad character art direction.
 
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M76 said:
I'm not talking about internet discourse, but the people actually pulling the strings of game development. When a single player game underperforms they often pivot to making a multiplayer game. Or even when it is successful. But you rarely if ever see them pivoting from an online multiplayer game to single player.
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Online multiplayer game project are so much rarer than single player game to start with, that there is less of them to pivot, but it is relatively common % wise. There is a infracstructure build to support the live service that a massive sunk cost, hard to claw yourself out of course, making it painful to do.

Megam Man X Dive ->Mega Man X dive offline, this one, I imagine there is a list of them, but a lot of project started as multiplayer only do not make much sense as single player game, a Concord was build in every way to be a multiplayer game, an team synergy hero shooter.

God of war we will see for Last of Us, could be quite common to walk out of such project, after giant high profil costly failure, heard mentality-fear is strong
 
Hope the game is just cancelled and just another $200+ million lesson to Sony to stop the relentless live service endeavors that nobody wants and goes against what got them where they are in the gaming landscape (publishing many of the best narrative-driven single player games until the current PS5 generation).

The saddest and most annoying aspect of all of this though is that it's all inconsequencial to the senior execs making these horrible decisions while they continue to shutter good studios (Bluepoint is unforgivable IMO), layoff thousands (which honestly should happen anyways with how bloated most AAA studios are), and remain gainfully employed to continue making bad decisions for the company and gaming industry.
 
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M76 said:
I mean you clearly seem to love it and fight for its honor for some strange reason. If mustard was hated by as many people as DEI, it would've been dropped by every food chain from every recipe.

Only two types of people love (or pretend to love) DEI, contrarians and activists. Which one are you?
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a Black person in a video game or a Trans character doesn't bother me...I could care less unless they are actively pushing the fact that the character is Black or Asian or a minority and making it a focal point of the story...if a background or side quest has a lesbian character I could care less...I'm playing the game (or watching the movie or TV series) not focusing on insequential things just to get in an uproar and rage on forums...if these type of things bother you so much I don't know how you leave your house every day

you must get triggered driving in your car or shopping in a store...I would hate living like that...maybe it's because I live in NYC and I'm accustomed to seeing different ethnicities, backgrounds etc
 
Honestly, the LGBT thing isn't a big deal to me but why are the character designs always trash and unattractive. There are hot gay people out there. Why do we have to lower the beauty standards for something that is supposed to be a fantasy, something to get lost in and role play. Cyberpunk def did it right, being inclusive without inserting real world woke politics.
 
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